[X] My Assistant

End of Days Cleared

My main source of MP was Ether Theft from the Magic Missile.

I found it faster to get through rounds after rounds of a Legendary monster by alternating between Holy and Dark spells, mainly because of my Staff. It helped my Holy and Dark proficiencies. I was able to take them out before their SP reached full, which help preserved my SP from being drained by Spark of Life.

Konata was the easiest Legendary monster to recover MP from.

It was long, but it was worth the credits and trophies.

WoW nice going, what did you take into the battle for items?

btw the last time I fighting Yuki Nagato it seemed dark damage did more then holy. but the wiki said its weakness is holy. what do you think?

End of Days Cleared

It was long, but it was worth the credits and trophies.

This is only true the first time. (I've beaten it a few times)

what did you take into the battle for items?

You shouldn't need items, but I'd bring a spirit elixir or two on the off chance you have bad luck with absorb.

btw the last time I fighting Yuki Nagato it seemed dark damage did more then holy. but the wiki said its weakness is holy. what do you think?

If you are using heaven-sent gear, holy is likely to do more to Yuki than dark even if she is less resistant to dark. I might give it a test later though.

WoW nice going, what did you take into the battle for items?

btw the last time I fighting Yuki Nagato it seemed dark damage did more then holy. but the wiki said its weakness is holy. what do you think?

I took my usual items, 11 normal slots of Godly Mana Draughts/Potions and 2 scroll slots for each Scroll of the Avatar/Gods. I used up more than half of my MP items and didn't touch my emergency scrolls.

It seemed that Dark seemed to do more damage to Ryouko Asukura as well. Well, Dark spells cost more MP to cast than Holy spells, so there could be a similar output/MP between the two.

My equipment gave me roughly equal amounts of Holy and Dark damage bonuses. They were both around +20 at the time.

EDIT: The trophies gave me some improvements in my equipment. It will be harder each time to improve it with the trophies rewarded each time.

This post has been edited by EvolutionKing: Aug 29 2010, 07:13

Data is always helpful, so I collected some.
Notes:
Divine prof was 248.5 and Forbidden prof was 174.21
Both Holy and Dark ratings were equal at 27%.
My equipment gave neither divine/forbidden prof or holy/dark damage.
Banish costs 49 mp. Ragnarok costs 68.
Ragnarok costs 38% more MP than Banish. (68/49)
My holy damage is boosted by 42% more than my dark damage (124.25%/87.105%)
Those are close, so if dark does more damage in these tests, then dark is better.

Ryouko
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7518 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7578 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 5684 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 6897 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7963 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 6483 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 6957 holy damage.
7 hits- 7011.43 average

Banish blasts Ryouko Asakura for 10347 holy damage.
Banish blasts Ryouko Asakura for 9413 holy damage.
Banish blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11590 holy damage.
Banish blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11146 holy damage.
Banish blasts Ryouko Asakura for 10968 holy damage.
Banish blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11856 holy damage.
6 crits- 10886.67 average

Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 6908 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 7155 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 6137 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 7742 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 5644 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 7033 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 7095 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 6848 dark damage.
8 hits- 6820.25 average

Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 9391 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 9993 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 9252 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11011 dark damage.
4 crits- 9911.27 average

Ryouko- Again
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 8289 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 6394 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 6217 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 8082 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7519 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 5654 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7579 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7105 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7875 holy damage.
9 hits- 7190.44 average

Banish blasts Ryouko Asakura for 9103 holy damage.
Banish blasts Ryouko Asakura for 10213 holy damage.
Banish blasts Ryouko Asakura for 12389 holy damage.
3 crits- 10568.33 average

Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 5985 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 5924 dark damage.
2 hits- 5954.5 average

Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 8978 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 9950 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11060 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11014 dark damage
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 9903 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 9857 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11477 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 9117 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11662 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 8839 dark damage.
10 crits- 10185.7 average

Ryouko- Again Again
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 5950 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 6809 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7638 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 6661 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 6454 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 6572 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7401 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7904 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7845 holy damage.
Banish hits Ryouko Asakura for 7223 holy damage.
10 hits- 7045.7 average

Banish blasts Ryouko Asakura for 9991 holy damage.
Banish blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11856 holy damage.
2 crits- 10923.5 average

Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 7960 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 8084 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 7282 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 6881 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 6264 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 7838 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 7653 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 8085 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Ryouko Asakura for 6974 dark damage.
9 hits- 7446.78 average

Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11709 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 9071 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11247 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11385 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Ryouko Asakura for 11201 dark damage.
5 crits- 10922.6 average

This post has been edited by Boggyb: Aug 29 2010, 08:43

Data is always helpful, so I collected some.
Notes:
Divine prof was 248.5 and Forbidden prof was 174.21
Both Holy and Dark ratings were equal at 27%.
My equipment gave neither divine/forbidden prof or holy/dark damage.
Banish costs 49 mp. Ragnarok costs 68.
Ragnarok costs 38% more MP than Banish. (68/49)
My holy damage is boosted by 42% more than my dark damage (124.25%/87.105%)
Those are close, so if dark does more damage in these tests, then dark is better.

Yuki
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 7164 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 8852 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 7460 holy damage.
3 hits- 7825.33 average

Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 9370 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 12789 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 11102 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 11279 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 12789 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 9814 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 9503 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 10569 holy damage.
8 crits- 10901.88 average

Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 11028 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 6046 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 7774 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 7126 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 8083 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 7466 dark damage.
6 hits- 7920.5 average

Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 10041 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 11892 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 12123 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 9255 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 9024 dark damage.
5 crits- 10467 average

Yuki- Again
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 8289 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 6868 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 6572 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 5921 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 7756 holy damage.
5 hits- 7081.2 average

Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 12034 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 10924 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 9414 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 9814 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 11679 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 13144 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 11901 holy damage.
7 crits- 11272.86 average

Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 7808 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 6851 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 8085 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 8426 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 6605 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 8241 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 7685 dark damage.
7 hits- 7671.57 average

Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 9258 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 9953 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 12222 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 9769 dark damage.
4 crits- 10300.5 average

Yuki- Again Again
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 8467 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 8348 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 6217 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 6691 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 7105 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 6868 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 7579 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 8112 holy damage.
Banish hits Yuki Nagato for 6069 holy damage.
9 hits- 7272.89 average

Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 10746 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 11856 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 10125 holy damage.
Banish blasts Yuki Nagato for 12478 holy damage.
4 crits- 11301.25 average

Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 7995 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 7655 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 7933 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 7440 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 5464 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 7997 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 6916 dark damage.
Ragnarok hits Yuki Nagato for 6237 dark damage.
8 hits- 7204.63 average

Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 8658 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 9353 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 8149 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 9540 dark damage.
Ragnarok blasts Yuki Nagato for 11069 dark damage.
5 crits- 9353.8 average

This post has been edited by Boggyb: Aug 29 2010, 08:47

I ran the averages but am too tired to look at them and attempt to draw any conclusion other than my sample size is awful and I'll probably need to battetoads them to get a large enough at a uniform level. (Please, god, someone do that while I'm sleeping)

This post has been edited by Boggyb: Aug 29 2010, 08:48

Exactly. You're suggesting tactics that either wouldn't work with a melee build, have already been proven to not work, or ones I've already conceived and discarded because they just wouldn't work. Trust me, I've thought this through pretty thoroughly. A mage is going to be a lot squishier and be much more dependent on MP for damage, but the damage/consumption ratio is more towards their favor than for a melee.

Well after some time meleeing, in 2 days, I conceived one that actually works very well in theory, but in reality doesn't work so well due the stupid rolls, and although I had 100% success in 4 attempts in both RoB and arena, I have no illusions about being lucky in 75 legendaries.
Well I'm still 16 levels for it, and I still can to raise DW/deprecating proficiency a lot, reduce burden and increase action speed, so let's see if it's enough to counter the bad rolls.

In other hand before I can try, HV 5.0 can appear (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Edit: Come to think I forgot to use the soul stones, so this actually can work well (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) , and btw no Eths involved.

This post has been edited by cmdct: Aug 31 2010, 02:01

Well after some time meleeing, in 2 days, I conceived one that actually works very well in theory, but in reality doesn't work so well due the stupid rolls, and although I had 100% success in 4 attempts in both RoB and arena, I have no illusions about being lucky in 75 legendaries.
Well I'm still 16 levels for it, and I still can to raise DW/deprecating proficiency a lot, reduce burden and increase action speed, so let's see if it's enough to counter the bad rolls.

You need at least 2 pieces of spirit ward gear and a piece of Frost-born gear to survive without needing to cast Spark of Life.

You need at least 2 pieces of spirit ward gear and a piece of Frost-born gear to survive without needing to cast Spark of Life.

Which remind me you didn't answer before if you wanted this or not.

Well don't worry with me, they're just a bunch of girls (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
I had to do the arenas again, to estimate the mana I'll need, with the profs higher, but for now I'm 99% sure I can clear it. With the soul stones this is different, since I can "skip" the bad rolls problem now, task which normally would spend too much mana to finish.

IPU down on second attempt. Swapped to sword (axe) and board after my dual wield attempt failed (only had 37 prof so bleed and offhand procs were low). 9 mana elixirs used for silence, regen, poison and cure.

1268 17 You gain 100565 Credits!
1268 16 You gain 15679.64 EXP!
1268 15 Your HP and MP have been fully restored!
1268 14 Arena Token Bonus! Received:
[Token of Blood]
1268 13 Arena Clear Bonus! Received:
[Fine Cotton Robe of Protection]
1268 12 Invisible Pink Unicorn dropped [Unicorn Horn]
1268 11 You are Victorious!

Which remind me you didn't answer before if you wanted this or not.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)?
No. I don't want them. I have a pair that is approximately equal.

I had to do the arenas again, to estimate the mana I'll need, with the profs higher, but for now I'm 99% sure I can clear it.

You need to be able to kill 6 legendaries per mana elixir. No amount of calculations on a single legendary are going to be able to mirror that.

With the soul stones this is different, since I can "skip" the bad rolls problem now, task which normally would spend too much mana to finish.

You do know you will still need to Bewilder them. You need 2 pieces of spirit ward gear on top of Bewilder.

I ran the averages but am too tired to look at them and attempt to draw any conclusion other than my sample size is awful and I'll probably need to battetoads them to get a large enough at a uniform level. (Please, god, someone do that while I'm sleeping)

You could have got a larger sample by using single target spells... but I think there's enough. BTW min and max damage are more useful than averages. The closer the ratio of max to min is to 1.5, the closer those values will be to the limits of the range of possible damage.

Notes:
Divine prof was 248.5 and Forbidden prof was 174.21
Both Holy and Dark ratings were equal at 27%.
My equipment gave neither divine/forbidden prof or holy/dark damage.
Banish costs 49 mp. Ragnarok costs 68.
Ragnarok costs 38% more MP than Banish. (68/49)
My holy damage is boosted by 42% more than my dark damage (124.25%/87.105%)
Those are close, so if dark does more damage in these tests, then dark is better.

Actually (assuming Divine and Forbidden proficiency have a /200 factor for damage), your Holy damage is boosted by (224.25/187.105) relative to Dark, which is a ratio of 1.20:1. That's somewhat less than the ratio of MP cost, so Dark spells would have to do about 16% more damage (for you) in order to be more mana efficient on an absolute scale.

So let's look at the numbers.
Note: I'm assuming crits have a 1.5x damage multiplier, and as it happens if you divide their values by 1.5 they all fall within the range of the normal hits.

Ryouko

Banish: Minimum damage 5654, maximum 8299. Ratio of max:min = 1.47
Ragnarok: Minimum damage 5644, maximum 8084. Ratio of max:min = 1.43

This doesn't prove conclusively that Banish does more damage, but it's enough to show that it's inherently more mana efficient.

Yuki

Banish: Minimum damage 5921, maximum 8852. Ratio of max:min = 1.495
Ragnarok: Minimum damage 5464, maximum 11028? Ratio of max:min = 2.02??

I think something's gone wrong there. Of course, if you cast Ragnarok while she was affected by Breached Defense, lowering her Dark resistance, that would increase the damage by an unknown amount. The second highest value, 8426, is also slightly suspect, giving a max:min ratio of 1.54 - but Holy has the edge anyway.

If you feel up to more data collection, I suggest finding out how much more damage each spell does when the target has the opposite status effect. But it looks to me as though the optimum strategy is to use Holy until you get Breached Defense, cast one Dark spell to take advantage of the lowered resistance, and repeat. Note that there's no point in repeatedly casting Dark spells if the first one fails to proc Blunted Attack.

You could have got a larger sample by using single target spells...

Dur. I could also have used the lesser version. This is why you don't do things while half asleep.

I think something's gone wrong there. Of course, if you cast Ragnarok while she was affected by Breached Defense, lowering her Dark resistance, that would increase the damage by an unknown amount.

I made sure to not to switch when it was on.

If you feel up to more data collection, I suggest finding out how much more damage each spell does when the target has the opposite status effect.

That sounds like a lot more work, but sure, I'll look into it.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)?
No. I don't want them. I have a pair that is approximately equal.
You need to be able to kill 6 legendaries per mana elixir. No amount of calculations on a single legendary are going to be able to mirror that.

With the risky method without soul stones it was a lot more than that, it was totally covered, except it doesn't work because of what I said before.
With 8 soul stones, safe method (that's what I'll try first) I need to be able to kill 15 legendaries per mana elixir, and that's tricky, but if it goes like I think it goes, will make the mana loss in the first turns due other mobs, minimal or even none considering (that's what happen without the legendary and without soul stones with this setup), plus killing the legendary 3X faster, I will have ~21 legendaries per mana elixir. Of course I actually have try first to get a real value.

You do know you will still need to Bewilder them. You need 2 pieces of spirit ward gear on top of Bewilder.

I'm all aware of that, but I use silence instead, and yes I can take the damage very well. No more clues, because cmal have the right to discover by himself if he want too.

Edit: Ok I'll give another: turn off IA, look to mana regen, and think a little.

This post has been edited by cmdct: Aug 31 2010, 04:22

With 8 soul stones

The point isn't to beat it at all costs. The point is to beat it at a reasonable cost. Basically, mana elixirs.

I don't think fighting Legendaries in two arenas and RoB are a good way to test tactics for fighting 75 Legendaries in a row. The situations are too dissimilar.

If you feel up to more data collection, I suggest finding out how much more damage each spell does when the target has the opposite status effect.

That sounds like a lot more work, but sure, I'll look into it.

Come to think of it, this was all about finding the girls' weaknesses for the wiki, so we've answered the original question.

Come to think of it, this was all about finding the girls' weaknesses for the wiki, so we've answered the original question.

I think the original question was whether dark was more effective than holy.

The point isn't to beat it at all costs. The point is to beat it at a reasonable cost. Basically, mana elixirs.

You're funny sometimes, what I said was I could beat it, not what cost I needed to do it. Plus this is more using safety than other thing for now, probably I don't need so much soul stones.

I don't think fighting Legendaries in two arenas and RoB are a good way to test tactics for fighting 75 Legendaries in a row. The situations are too dissimilar.

That's why I said, I can, not I will (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That's why I said, I can, not I will (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It seemed like you were implying that's how you were formulating this wonderful tactic of yours.