[X] My Assistant

I was doing fine before the last update, I'm sure I'll roll with it. But I'll consider myself warned.

But as long as we're being pessimistic, I really would prefer increased healer costs to decreased credit earnings.

The problem is that I can make credits from grinding. That I can do it indefinitely theoretically means I could make infinite credits. Tenboro has said that he wants the HV to be credit neutral which means he has to do one of: change Grindfest, change the cost of healing, or change the credit bonus. I just don't want #3 to happen. I like actually making a few credits when I do my daily arenas and hourly battles. If that means sacrificing people's precious grindfest, then so be it.

But HV is still basically credit neutral since all those credits you gain basically go into training, or buying stuff.

When Tenboro nerfs enemies credit drops, don't say I didn't warn you. He IS going to to return things to how they were before the latest update.

I would say "you are responsible" then.

I mean, whining to Tenboro about positive thing? And pleading to change it for worse? WTF?

This post has been edited by hen_Z: Oct 19 2009, 17:23

I mean, whining to Tenboro about positive thing? And pleading to change it for worse? WTF?

He dropped the hammer on credit bonuses "because of a trick in the GP/Hath exchange". He dropped the hammer on the selling price of infusions/staffs. He has been murdering anything that allows you to make a substantial amount of credits. Grindfest now allows you to do that. So, Tenboro has two options, up the difficulty of Grindfest or decrease credit drops. As butt hurt as everyone gets when they can't grindfest for a million rounds, I bet he drops the hammer on credit drops.

I want him to kill Grindfest because I find it incredibly boring. I prefer doing arenas and actually making a few credits doing them. I know something is going to change.

This post has been edited by Boggyb: Oct 16 2009, 19:57

@The Grind/Credits discussions, Boggyb & co, quoting the first post in the thread:

DO NOT DISCUSS IDEAS HERE This is important to prevent potential flamewars and or grief, tears and other sorrow over someone's idea. Leave that up to Tenboro*

Just thought I'd remind people rather now than later.. That said though, I'll say something short about it.

@Boggyb: Just to make it clear, I could grind on Normal pretty much indefinately prior to this change, I haven't tried since then, but the latest change probably just made it harder for me (well, atleast after round 50).. And if I do get stomped in there, I'll chugg a few restoratives and voila, back into action. I don't do grind much, at most I do a few arenas daily (if even that) due to lack of time.. Thus siding with marcho in the fact that the grind is more about time than anything else. Heck, most, if not all mmo's are mostly about time.

I'm no mind-reader, so I cannot say for sure, but from what you're saying I make it out that you were not able to grind for many rounds at all prior to this update, and now you're able to go on for a bit longer and thus able to afford healing->fighting->healing->etc? Do think outside what you're just seeing from your own endevours, though. While you couldn't go grinding that much prior to the change, other might have been able to.

All that said, I don't mean any offense with anything I say, if any is taken, I apologize in advance. If the healer cost is increased, I wouldn't mind since I never use the Healer anyway. I'll just keep grinding for hours and hours and hours.. (Theoretically, since I don't have the time to actually do it)

I'd like to see the Reset Option be greatly reduced in price, if not simply made free -with a Time Limit between possible Ability/Class changes.

I argue that, in fact, it would almost certainly increase participation in HV, not just in terms of increased gameplay but also more purchases from the Bazaar, since most people would more readily entertain the thought of buying a whole set of Weps and Armor for a different Character Class if they didn't have to also spend that money on the Reset.

Just out of curiosity, Tenboro, what's your reasoning behind tacking on an ever-increasing amount of C to the Resets?? I'm serious here; I don't see any means by which this could be exploited by an HV player in a bad way, and in fact I see win-win for you.

I'd like to see the Reset Option be greatly reduced in price, if not simply made free -with a Time Limit between possible Ability/Class changes.

I argue that, in fact, it would almost certainly increase participation in HV, not just in terms of increased gameplay but also more purchases from the Bazaar, since most people would more readily entertain the thought of buying a whole set of Weps and Armor for a different Character Class if they didn't have to also spend that money on the Reset.

Just out of curiosity, Tenboro, what's your reasoning behind tacking on an ever-increasing amount of C to the Resets?? I'm serious here; I don't see any means by which this could be exploited by an HV player in a bad way, and in fact I see win-win for you.

I think the reset cost is calculated from the last level you pressed the reset button. I'll test it now.

Nevermind... It more than doubled when I clicked it twice.

This post has been edited by Hunter the 3rd: Oct 18 2009, 06:32

I think the reset cost is calculated from the last level you pressed the reset button. I'll test it now.

Nevermind... It more than doubled when I clicked it twice.

It jumps up by at least 10% every time you press the button, in similar fashion as when you spend XP to raise your character's Stats....and I could've sworn that somebody here once did the math and determined that Reset Cost goes up faster than that.

I'd like to see the Reset Option be greatly reduced in price, if not simply made free -with a Time Limit between possible Ability/Class changes.

I argue that, in fact, it would almost certainly increase participation in HV, not just in terms of increased gameplay but also more purchases from the Bazaar, since most people would more readily entertain the thought of buying a whole set of Weps and Armor for a different Character Class if they didn't have to also spend that money on the Reset.

Just out of curiosity, Tenboro, what's your reasoning behind tacking on an ever-increasing amount of C to the Resets?? I'm serious here; I don't see any means by which this could be exploited by an HV player in a bad way, and in fact I see win-win for you.

At first I know it was to avoid people abusing the credit bonuses by just putting them all in that and then selling tons of GP. Now that there are no credit bonuses anywhere in the HV itself I don't see why it is needed. The only bonuses are experience related and those don't seem to ever give problems. I am quite curious as to why we still have that or at least why its price jumps up so fast.

Make Barrier more useful. Whether that is through upping the damage absorption, changing it to a damage mitigation, or make it last a certain number of hits instead of turns, is up to you.

Oh, and make Shadow Veil better. It is decent now, but at a cost of 5 AP, I would like a little more punch.

At first I know it was to avoid people abusing the credit bonuses by just putting them all in that and then selling tons of GP. Now that there are no credit bonuses anywhere in the HV itself I don't see why it is needed. The only bonuses are experience related and those don't seem to ever give problems. I am quite curious as to why we still have that or at least why its price jumps up so fast.

Ah, I forgot that particular exploit (particularly because I never thought to exploit the system in that manner).

Going off of what you've said here, I wonder if Tenboro would think that it would be a potentially horrible thing to keep the Credit Bonuses out of the Abilities Page but re-instate them for the Hath Perks page.


Tenboro: please read these recent Postings and reduce or remove the Reset Cost from the Abilities Screen in future iterations of HV!! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ah, I forgot that particular exploit (particularly because I never thought to exploit the system in that manner).

Going off of what you've said here, I wonder if Tenboro would think that it would be a potentially horrible thing to keep the Credit Bonuses out of the Abilities Page but re-instate them for the Hath Perks page.
Tenboro: please read these recent Postings and reduce or remove the Reset Cost from the Abilities Screen in future iterations of HV!! :)

The hath perks page DOES have credit bonuses, they're the wacky expensive penny pincher path, the level 1 100 hath one increases all gained credits by a fancy 1% :P

It jumps up by at least 10% every time you press the button, in similar fashion as when you spend XP to raise your character's Stats....and I could've sworn that somebody here once did the math and determined that Reset Cost goes up faster than that.

Tenboro posted it. Somewhere.

Maybe you should stop reseting it all the time. Won't change.

I totally called the nerfing of credit bonuses. I'm either damned brilliant, or it was FUCKING OBVIOUS. Being able to make over 200 credits per 15-16 round grindfest on normal was never Tenboro's intention.

Edit:
Can we have failed arena challenges be added to our credit logs?

This post has been edited by Boggyb: Oct 19 2009, 20:57

I'd like to suggest a better equip stats screen. It is a hassle figuring out which equips for sale are better than my current, and how much better they are without writing down hard numbers.

Little green or red icons, or some indication of stat increase/decrease of potential equips versus my current equipment on hover-over.

Also, a global/personal ranking chart for grindfest progress would be nice.

In my experience and some recent discussions, it seems that HV has been getting less mage-friendly. With that in mind, I have a rather dramatic suggestion to make.

Eliminate the MP increase with level and make magic spells a fixed cost, rather than a percentage.


Short version:
Currently, the cost of mages' primary attack, spells, scales up with level. There is no corresponding drag on the improvement of melee attacks. This suggestion will make the primary attack of mages scale the same way that melee attack properties do; purely with stats. This will also benefit players who never touch INT or WIS. If you currently only take the base increase in MP, you can cast fewer spells as you level up. Under the proposed system, the number of spells you can cast would remain constant.


Long version:
Under the Current System
For the sake of having nice round numbers, let's say that I'm level 10 and have 10 INT and 10 WIS. If a spell has a base cost of 10, it will cost me 1 MP (10% of my level) to use it, according to the cost theory on the wiki. I should have 30 MP (10 + 10 + 7.5 + 2.5) according to this, so I can cast that spell 30 times.
Now I go to level 50 and increase my INT and WIS to 50 each. That spell now costs 5 MP (10% of 50), and I have 110 MP (10 + 50 + 37.5 + 12.5). I can now cast that spell 22 times. Yay? I need to commit to leveling INT and WIS twice per level to break even, which basically amounts to ignoring every other stat.

Under the Proposed System
The spell now has a fixed cost of 1 MP. At level 10 with 10 INT and 10 WIS, I have 20 MP (10 + 7.5 + 2.5), so I can cast the spell 20 times.
At level 50 with 50 INT and 50 WIS, I have 60 MP (10 + 37.5 + 12.5). I can now cast that spell 60 times.
My magic stats increased to 5x their value, and I can throw around 3x the magic. If I take it up to 100 instead of 50, I have increased my magic stats to 10x their value and can throw around 5.5x as much magic. The specific multiplicative factor can be adjusted, but at least it's greater than unity.

I always thought increasing mana costs on spells was, well, awkward. Set costs might hurt low level players (they would have to fix the costs higher then the current start point), but at least there would be forward progress. Most rpg's used absolutely fixed spell costs.

But lets look at games that do scale. Generally one would attach spell cost scalling to spell power, not pc level. Diablo II for example. Investing additional skill points in a spell would make it more costly, but also dramatically more powerful. And once you capped out the skill, the cost stayed fixed and only got better as a percentage of your mana pool.

This is why there were multiple tiers of spells in addition to multiple ranks.

firebolt (which you could improve damage at the cost of mana with additional points) then inferno, then fire ball, then fireall and enchant, then meteor, then hydra. Tiers of skills.

I always thought increasing mana costs on spells was, well, awkward. Set costs might hurt low level players (they would have to fix the costs higher then the current start point), but at least there would be forward progress. Most rpg's used absolutely fixed spell costs.

But lets look at games that do scale. Generally one would attach spell cost scalling to spell power, not pc level. Diablo II for example. Investing additional skill points in a spell would make it more costly, but also dramatically more powerful. And once you capped out the skill, the cost stayed fixed and only got better as a percentage of your mana pool.

This is why there were multiple tiers of spells in addition to multiple ranks.

firebolt (which you could improve damage at the cost of mana with additional points) then inferno, then fire ball, then fireall and enchant, then meteor, then hydra. Tiers of skills.

Sir marcho makes so much damn sense!!!

Sir marcho kicks ass!!

....except when he shows off his shiny, shiny, Phase Armor Of Awesomeness and Artful Dodging....then I don't love him so much.

Short version:
tl;dr

You do, of course, realize that the reason magic costs increase with level is that the spells also automatically power up. If the cost didn't go up, neither would the damage.