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I've wanted to try Mage but it seems all the higher level players are mages and that shits fucking expensive and since I don't have any bitcoins I don't stand any chance in making enough credits for the ridiculous cost of Mage equipment.

Yeah, mage equipments are very expensive.

It's much better to stay with melee style and level up if you have less credits.

I've wanted to try Mage but it seems all the higher level players are mages and that shits fucking expensive and since I don't have any bitcoins I don't stand any chance in making enough credits for the ridiculous cost of Mage equipment.

Yeah, mage equipments are very expensive.

It's much better to stay with melee style and level up if you have less credits.

I don't think basic mage equipment is all that much more expensive than melee. 5 Emax EDB Phase shouldn't cost more than 100k-200k each, if you shop around intelligently (you might even be able to find Mmax for that price, especially at auctions). And 100k-200k each is similar, maybe even a bit less, than the cost of 2 PAB Exquisite Power Slaughter with not-too-terrible stats. If you're open to playing on lower difficulty or without paying much attention with Spellspam without Imperil you could get 1 or 2 proficiency cotton instead.

The biggest cost by far comes from the Phazons necessary for forging mage equipment (if you wish to forge) - the unforged equips themselves, even the higher-end ones (except Mag/Leg Radiant/Mystic), usually aren't that costly.

With mage, you can clear much faster than melee on Hell/Nintendo/maybe BT - more income per time spent than if you're melee, even without great gear - but unlike melee, mage can't handle IWBTH/PFUDOR without great gear and forging. (high firepower necessary to kill monsters in few hits before their MP/SP gauges fill and start hitting you for 1/2 HP every turn) So if you have excess unused stamina, or if you have a high ping (makes melee much more time consuming), and if you aren't too concerned about experience gain (high difficulty required), then maging may be the right choice for you.

I've wanted to try Mage but it seems all the higher level players are mages and that shits fucking expensive and since I don't have any bitcoins I don't stand any chance in making enough credits for the ridiculous cost of Mage equipment.

Only if you are talking about hallowed style. Good luck going legendary 1H with legendary power armor of slaughter. I can't even afford that.

Only if you are talking about hallowed style. Good luck going legendary 1H with legendary power armor of slaughter. I can't even afford that.

I can't even afford legendary repair. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

I try the Mage, and never back. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

On the other hand, someone with 1h and level ~250-300 who buys Power Slaughter and maybe one or two defensive Plate from the bazaar can finish all arenas on PF, or at least IWBTH for SG.

Yeah, although at some point it becomes less a matter of merely finishing and more a matter of doing it in a time that isn't utterly painful. I read about people just blazing through entire grindfests let alone arenas, but I never managed to crack the formula for that (or I guess get good enough gear) so eventually I hit the wall with what I've got, breaking through that would be extremely expensive and/or time consuming, so now I tend to progress quest more and actually battle through arenas less. 1H is definitely survivable as heck, but even with OFC I found it has petered out for me. A nice rapier might boost things, but those are $$$$$$ of course.

Amusingly in retrospect, in reverse of normal 1H was actually the very last skill set I worked on even though it became my main one. I started as pure mage, but found it became completely impossible for my equipment/profs after the big patch so I then changed to melee, starting with 2H, then moving to DW, then finally trying 1H.

Yeah, although at some point it becomes less a matter of merely finishing and more a matter of doing it in a time that isn't utterly painful. I read about people just blazing through entire grindfests let alone arenas, but I never managed to crack the formula for that (or I guess get good enough gear) so eventually I hit the wall with what I've got, breaking through that would be extremely expensive and/or time consuming, so now I tend to progress quest more and actually battle through arenas less. 1H is definitely survivable as heck, but even with OFC I found it has petered out for me. A nice rapier might boost things, but those are $$$$$$ of course.

I'm still using the rapier I bought at level 150 for 100k, and I can finish arenas relatively quickly.

If you don't have much time to play then I'm pretty sure mage is the way to go, since stamina isn't an issue, nor is high difficulty important. Even if you only play on Hell you'd probably be able to do so twice as fast as 1h.

I'm still using the rapier I bought at level 150 for 100k, and I can finish arenas relatively quickly.

You mind me asking what your stats look like and what you mean by "relatively quickly"? PFUDOR TTT or DwD for example? I'd take a big raw damage hit switching to a cheap rapier which would effect OFC, but maybe the armor penetration would be worth it, and if I could find a slaughter helmet/gauntlets to go with the rest of my gear for not too much that'd help make up for it a little.

As far as mage, I have zero good kit there at this point and I never got above 200 prof despite having run mage for the first long part of my career. Maybe if I ever hit 400 or luck out in the lottery...

Although I play as a mage about half the time, I realize there's a lot of limitation. Since I am relying solely on equipment drops rather than spending credits on buying, I can say my equipment is entirely to blame for my struggling at anything above Hell difficulty.

I'd prefer to change to mage after lv.310

You mind me asking what your stats look like and what you mean by "relatively quickly"? PFUDOR TTT or DwD for example? I'd take a big raw damage hit switching to a cheap rapier which would effect OFC, but maybe the armor penetration would be worth it, and if I could find a slaughter helmet/gauntlets to go with the rest of my gear for not too much that'd help make up for it a little.

[attachembed=61997]
I have HP perk, some Jug on 4 of the armors, and a little bit of forging on two.

PFUDOR DwD takes too long. 1 h 50 min with infusions, last time I tried.
PFUDOR T&T takes 20-25 minutes. High-tier mage can clear same in ~700 turns (unsure on how much time that would be).
OFC usually kills most monsters and sometimes leaves 2 or 3 alive with 1/5th hp remaining. It's good enough for me.

If you go for Endurance-less Power Slaughter you could probably assemble an armor set capable of something similar for under 1m, though it'll take careful shopping around/auctions/bargaining. Add in 500k or so for shield and rapier both forged to 5.

As far as mage, I have zero good kit there at this point and I never got above 200 prof despite having run mage for the first long part of my career. Maybe if I ever hit 400 or luck out in the lottery...

At our level, prof rises much much more quickly than level - you don't have to worry about that much.

Although I play as a mage about half the time, I realize there's a lot of limitation. Since I am relying solely on equipment drops rather than spending credits on buying, I can say my equipment is entirely to blame for my struggling at anything above Hell difficulty.

If you play self-found, it'll be quite difficult to ever find anything that could be considered "good" for any set you're using (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I'd prefer to change to mage after lv.310

Depends on if you want to play on higher difficulty with Imperil or not. With 1 or 2 proficiency cotton, holy/dark mages especially can get by on PF without Imperil, if they've forged (and, so I've heard, it's a bit faster than the alternative of 5 phase). But higher than BT can be quite difficult for unforged mage.

PFUDOR DwD takes too long. 1 h 50 min with infusions, last time I tried.
PFUDOR T&T takes 20-25 minutes. High-tier mage can clear same in ~700 turns (unsure on how much time that would be).
OFC usually kills most monsters and sometimes leaves 2 or 3 alive with 1/5th hp remaining. It's good enough for me.

Hrm. Here are my current stats for what it's worth:

Similar in many respects, but you're getting it with a rapier and thus armor penetration whereas a lot of my damage comes from an axe, and bleeding was nerfed to hell ages ago and worse the effect kills the superior skill effect.

If you go for Endurance-less Power Slaughter you could probably assemble an armor set capable of something similar for under 1m, though it'll take careful shopping around/auctions/bargaining. Add in 500k or so for shield and rapier both forged to 5.

I'm good on the shield side of things, and I already have a few pieces of armor which are ok. I'll see about filling out the last two, I've taken some potshots at auctions and the like in the past but never had anything really pan out. Swapping to a basic rapier though would take off at least 1200-1400 raw damage I think, though two more pieces of decent slaughter should add 600 or so back. I'll still end up with a lot less then you, but maybe PA and full bleeding will make up for it. I'll have to do some trials and see. I seem to recall me taking significantly longer on PFUDOR TTT then you describe, and yeah PFUDOR DwD is just too painfully long to touch given the mediocre rewards. Against against bosses all the weaknesses of the axe become much much worse too.

Thanks for the suggestions though and letting me take a peak at what you're running with, food for thought.

This post has been edited by Somebro: Apr 14 2015, 03:25

I don't think switching to rapier will hurt you much. The vast majority of damage comes from stats / power slaughter rather than weapon. My chest armor does about 60% the damage of my weapon. Add up all Power Slaughter and that ratio probably goes to around 230%. (str/dex/prof accounts for the remaining ~280%)

If I switched to a near Smax slaughter axe, I would gain ~300 damage. (My rapier was far below Smax before Butcher and forge to 5, but it still seems good enough to me. I could upgrade, but it doesn't seem like it would help quite enough to be worth it)

I'll still end up with a lot less then you

I doubt it, you'll probably end up with significantly more (unless you've already forged weapon/armors a whole lot). And since you're also some levels behind, that's a very good sign for you. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Also, unless you're just playing around with something, try Godslayer rather than Dovahkiin. Godslayer is much better for melee (will help with OFC as well).

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Apr 14 2015, 03:48

I don't think switching to rapier will hurt you much. The vast majority of damage comes from stats / power slaughter rather than weapon. My chest armor does about 60% the damage of my weapon. Add up all Power Slaughter and that ratio probably goes to around 230%. (str/dex/prof accounts for the remaining ~280%)

My axe is 2250 damage, so it's a big chunk. I think at my level an unforged exquisite slaughter rapier is ~900 damage, so that seems like a significant drop at least in terms of raw output unless I'm missing some math. I'll definitely try it out though because status effects matter and obviously even a significant drop would still leave most of my damage.

I doubt it, you'll probably end up with significantly more (unless you've already forged weapon/armors a whole lot).

I've forged some but not beyond level 10-15 or so. My forge level is 15 so I could certainly forge higher in principle but mats are so pricey, I depend on my motley little squad of monsters for everything now (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif).

And since you're also some levels behind, that's a very good sign for you. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Reassuring!

Also, unless you're just playing around with something, try Godslayer rather than Dovahkiin. Godslayer is much better for melee (will help with OFC as well).

Heh, just while I was making that image I noticed that I'd somehow completely forgotten to switch that back to Godslayer, was messing around with FRD a while back seeing how it might mix in and then spaced on ever going back to Godslayer. Whoops!

i‘m melee before lvl 150, now i‘m mage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've wanted to try Mage but it seems all the higher level players are mages and that shits fucking expensive and since I don't have any bitcoins I don't stand any chance in making enough credits for the ridiculous cost of Mage equipment.

There's high end play, but at 309 there's also credit grind, and here mage might be worthwhile even without superexpensive gear. Don't give up on maging only because you can't afford legendaries - grinding G for those on lower diffuculties as melee might be painful as heck.

i used 1H for random encounters and arena, and magic for quick arena at lower difficulties

Mage sounds like fun, but do I need epic equipment for it or is it fair enough without?

Mage sounds like fun, but do I need epic equipment for it or is it fair enough without?

Cost is similar to 1h, maybe a bit less, assuming you don't forge. You won't be able to play on as high difficulty as you can with 1h - maybe PFUDOR as 1h but only Hell or Battletoads as mage - but you'll be able to clear a lot faster as mage (once you get the T3 spell). Holy/Dark is probably the better choice before 450.