[X] My Assistant

You have so much faith that people follow the rules but you keep failing to understand why there are large galleries with few tags. You might understand why if you gave a good reading to the tagging rules you would have an answer. These galleries have zero focus. They have everything but they don't really have much of anything.

Your whole thing about having to look at the whole gallery to vote something down, there are a lot of tags that I know are bad just by looking at them. I don't need to look to know a misspelled tag is bad. I don't need to look to know a bunch of half names are bad. I don't need to look to know a really stupid tag is bad. The good taggers do most of the down voting and they are the ones that do look.

You know who are the most likely to vote on things with out looking, people who just vote everything up. People like that are why there have been 107 bannings.

You are so hung up on shibari, why not find a place that specializes in it. We help find general things, not you to find your specific fetish of a girl bound with two slipknots and a sheep shank in a cherry blossom grove on a south facing slope at 3:07pm.

Giving uploaders up to 30 tagging power would just invite the blind up voters. My down vote is the highest among regular users and it's only 30. This means any mistakes would be very difficult to deal with. The same reason I dislike the idea of giving new users higher power as these are the least likely to have gone over the rules.

Take it from someone who cleans up messes, the community barely thinks at all. A large chunk of users never come to the forums, read the tag guidelines, or even read the ToS despite agreeing to it. You have way too much faith in the community.

Well, I do believe you. Its just that I do not think any one person should or would understand all the fetishes.

For the most part yes. It has to be at least easily understood and identified.

Shibari is.
Its also pretty common & popular, especially in japan.
https://e-hentai.org/g/468157/2691019f42/ contains shibari
https://e-hentai.org/g/469278/8b90e8710c/ contains shibari/frogtie (Most of the pg. 1 index contains frogtie.)
https://e-hentai.org/g/470028/b595e943ec/ contains shibari
https://e-hentai.org/g/469963/cd5bf053dc/ contains shibari
https://e-hentai.org/g/464141/bfecaaec8f/ contains shibari
https://e-hentai.org/g/459451/d66b15f760/ contains shibari
https://e-hentai.org/g/458369/5263d5f109/ contains shibari
https://e-hentai.org/g/434762/7c1314ccad/ contains shibari
https://e-hentai.org/g/457733/81a50c5f1d/ contains shibari

That with approx 3 minutes of searching. Now, why not let it be tagged shibari? (And frogtie, where appropriate?)
And that is just one example for a tag that I don't see on galleries that much, but one that I have seen being voted down. (Well, naturally, I have tried adding it.)

Content =/= tags.

Content == fetishes, fetishes==tags. No?
Why upload if nobody likes it? (Aka, is not fetish)

At least 2.

For the third time it has no impact, let alone a "major" one.

For the fourth time, I disagree. For example, humiliation+outside adds a whole new level to that humiliation. Major impact for some of the users. (More than 2)
There wouldn't be 700+ galleries tagged with "outside" if it wasn't. (There would be more if somegroup wouldn't remove those tags, because they disagree. No offense)

We've (or rather I've) let a lot of smaller fetishes become "official" tags over the last few months. You'll need to give examples of what tags you think are important.

As stated above, shibari, frogtie, outside, public to start with.
Shibari= It is completely different than mere bondage (Its kind of "japanese bondage" and should be tagged with bondage and shibari both.), and largely present in some of the galleries. (Pretty many bondage/bdsm galleries, seen as the artist usually is japanese.)
Frogtie= A form of shibari largely present (along with other forms of shibari) in some (pretty often) in galleries containing shibari.
Outside= People like it, so people tag it. It adds a whole new level to what ever is going on in the gallery. It makes shibari more beautiful, while humiliation more humiliating. "What if someone will see?" -kind of element.
Public= People like it, so people tag it. Adds a whole new element to humiliation for example. "People WILL see." -kind of deal
Office= People work there, might have some fantasies about it. I don't really care, but most likely some people do.
Bath= People like it. I don't actually care that much, but like to use it as an example, as it is widely depated, it seems.

Why should anyone disagree with what other people like? Matter of taste, really.

Hentai site, we're removing all Asian Porn in the coming months.

Shibari really is a japanese thing. Plays a major role in bondage type of hentai.

There are plenty of Japanese/asian fetish tags that have been blacklisted.

I did not understand this reply. Unless you are telling me to shut up or you'll blacklist the content I like?

Contain what?

Shibari

Requires more checking and mod power to fix if it's done poorly.

Ah, I see, I've been asking that for a while. Then again, other than "its hard to fix" why remove tags such as "outside"? It should be pretty clear if the place is outside. If we only talk about "overtagging" as having "too many" tags that actually fit the gallery (as in, no need for fixing) who would it hurt then? Whats the harm?

They can post in the forums instead.

Ah, that too, I was asking for a while. I see.

I'm pretty neutral on it. I don't dislike it.

But you are not a fanatic like me.

Specializes? Oh hell no. We make tags as idiot-proof as possible so that everyone can do it. Under no circumstances should a fetish tag require expertise.

Why not? Its not like everyone is looking for the same content. Bondage is a major theme, why not describe it so that those bondage fanatics (like me) actually find what they are looking for?
If another fanatic tries to help others by giving appropriate tags, why should someone who doesn't quite understand the deeper meaning of those tags just remove them?

Vigilantes pretty much have to.

Why?

This post has been edited by EroOu: Mar 25 2012, 15:51

I should really put something on the wiki for that...

Having such a page, and a visible link to it on the gallery upload page would help alot, I guess?
Should probably remind people that it makes their gallery easier to find too.

It's also highly used, well understood, often searched for, and easy to identify.

Yes, this is the problem, while searching for a specific type of bondage. I can't find it. Tag "bondage" just fits too many galleries. Searching for more specific tags finds some of the galleries I was looking for, but seen as those tags get voted down by people who do not understand them, I fear to rely on those tags alone for systematic viewing. Then again, I'd really hate to go through the entire "bondage" search result, just to find all the galleries I was looking for.

"frogtie" - usage of 6

Isn't that a tag that gets voted down, because its not in use enough? I've seen galleries containing frogtie, that did not have the tag.

"stocks" - usage of 42
"pillory" - usage of 46

Same as above.

"bondage" - usage of 137,620.

yes, exactly what I am saying. I want to find maybe 5% of these galleries. Going through 137 000 results is not something I want to do.

These numbers tell me a lot about more than a single user's personal feelings (no offense).

Those 137000 galleries most likely contain more of the content I described above, but the tags get voted down for reasons I have been speculating above. Again, if its in the gallery, why remove the tag?

Please don't say that those 137 000 galleries only contain some characters tied up doing nothing.

At least 2.

also that. Wasn't me tagging those 42, 46, 6 galleries.

"only for people who have serious fucking issues" has a usage of 132. Something being used doesn't automatically render it valid or useful to the community.

Ok, that I understand. But if the tag is otherways valid, why remove it? I can't seem to find "shibari" "outside" "frogtie" and "pillory" anymore. EDIT: Oh, I guess you grouped them under bondage? Yeah, thats a good solution, actually. Guess I got to use -group or something to find them now tho?

The tagging community is NOT self-regulating despite your many assumptions. People blindly tag things up without checking, misspell, make up random new tags, vote things down even if they are valid, etc.

Then why allow them to? If having tags is such an issue, why not just let the vigilate handle it? I thought the point was for users to tag the content. Scaring them to use just the most generic kind of tags is not too good an idea in my opinion. Oh, why don't we just use "bondage" "soft" and "hardcore" then? 3 tags, should be easy. Makes finding the specific content really hard, but hey, atleast its not overtagged.

Every tag that exists is another job that vigilantes have to deal with and make sure it valid. Moderation keeps the system working and it has enough leeway for almost all fetishes but not the super-specific. Anything that requires too much expertise invites misuse or lack of usage.

Outside shouldnt be superspecific. Neither is shibari, frogtie, pillory nor stocks. They're just not in use because it seems someone is deleting those tags.

You mean the gallery or the tags?

The tags. I see misuse of tags more in very small galleries. It might be just coincidence tho.

I don't think you know what the fjords are...

SELFCENCORED, no?

I already told you more images =/= more tags.

More images = higher chance for more fetishes = higher chance for more tags. Why not? lets say its an collection of works from one artist. Unless he is very boring kind of artist, there should be atleast some variation, the more he makes images.

You're an optimist. We have blatant RoE violations posted every single day.

Yes, I'm an optimist. I dislike having such a negative view on things.

EDIT:
I've noticed shibari, pillory, stocks getting grouped under bondage. This works for pillory and stocks, but I think shibari is major enough to be its own tag. Just that, it became a lot harder to find the galleries now. It might be that me, as an average/new user is not just that good at finding galleries with subtypes... Also, frogtie should be grouped under shibari.

Also, is there a way to tag multiple subtypes for a gallery? I think there should be (Not increase the group modpower, just coexist under it, hidden from view.) Is it just that I am new and don't know how to do this?

EDIT 2:
Umm, too long message, had to split. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by EroOu: Mar 25 2012, 23:47

You might understand why if you gave a good reading to the tagging rules you would have an answer. These galleries have zero focus. They have everything but they don't really have much of anything.

Umm, no offence, but I did ask for no TL;DR replies. Ohwell, I did read the tagging page around 3 times.
And its not that the galleries do not have content, or focus, its just that the content isn't tagged, nor described, at all for some reason. And I often see those tags just vanish. I do not think this helps anyone.

there are a lot of tags that I know are bad just by looking at them.

yes, I understand removing tags such as "this gallery is actually pretty nice and all." (Thought, that tag is treated just as "this gal" by the search engine, right?)

The good taggers do most of the down voting and they are the ones that do look.

As I've said a few times by now, the good taggers are most likely long time members, right? Most likely have alot of hath perks, right? Likely have more rows per page=less index pages for them to view. So its just one extra click for a veteran, maybe a few some random person who just wants to make harm.

Thought I do get your point. Meh.

You are so hung up on shibari, why not find a place that specializes in it. We help find general things, not you to find your specific fetish of a girl bound with two slipknots and a sheep shank in a cherry blossom grove on a south facing slope at 3:07pm.

I'm not hung up on it. It just generally helps people to understand if I do not change the focus of the example all the time. No? Just saying, you got a lot of content here. Why not make it easy to find?/Why make it harder?
Searching for bondage, I can't even view all the results.

Giving uploaders up to 30 tagging power would just invite the blind up voters. My down vote is the highest among regular users and it's only 30.

Well, if its a gallery with 300+ images, shouldn't it have appropriate tags too? Though now that you say, 30 was a bit high. How about 0.5 per 10 images, capped at 15?
A large gallery poster is more likely to view the rules than just some random 5 pic gallery poster who doesn't even know the gallery should have 8+ files.
Though yes, I agree, I've seen a few real bad large galleries too.

This post has been edited by EroOu: Mar 25 2012, 16:29

Its just that I do not think any one person should or would understand all the fetishes.

We have to.

Now, why not let it be tagged shibari? (And frogtie, where appropriate?)

Why did no one else do it before? Because they didn't care. You seem to be the first person to ever bring it up.

Content == fetishes

Nope. I can find 2000 image galleries with nothing special about their content. Try looking through some of those "my favorites" imagesets.

Why upload if nobody likes it? (Aka, is not fetish)

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Gallery_Points
You make really big assumptions about uploaders.

humiliation+outside adds a whole new level to that humiliation.

Humiliation was recently blacklisted because it adds little to the sex and was hard to identify.

There wouldn't be 700+ galleries tagged with "outside" if it wasn't.

"outside" is grouped under "exhibitionism".
"exhibitionism" - usage of 9939
"outside" - usage of 62

Shibari= It is completely different than mere bondage

Its kind of "japanese bondage"

I'm seeing conflicting statements here.

Frogtie= A form of shibari largely present (along with other forms of shibari) in some (pretty often) in galleries containing shibari.

A subtype of a subtype, no wonder it was practically never tagged.

Outside= People like it, so people tag it.

Again, you assume too much when it comes to how and why people tag.

It adds a whole new level to what ever is going on in the gallery.

And yet it changes nothing for the sex. If she were inside in front of a green screen or a backdrop of a forest it would have the same impact.

It makes shibari more beautiful

Subjective statement.

Public

Also grouped under "exhibitionism".

Office= People work there, might have some fantasies about it. I don't really care, but most likely some people do.

We have an "office girl" tag for the clothing fetish, seems to be good enough.

Why should anyone disagree with what other people like? Matter of taste, really.

We have the numbers, you don't.

I did not understand this reply.

Being Japanese doesn't make it better as a tag.

Then again, other than "its hard to fix" why remove tags such as "outside"?

No/minimal impact on sex.

If we only talk about "overtagging" as having "too many" tags that actually fit the gallery (as in, no need for fixing) who would it hurt then? Whats the harm?

Mostly misuse. If someone went around tagging "shibari" on a bunch of galleries that didn't have it but did have bondage we'd have to wait for someone like you to tell us which are okay and which are not. While we wait for you some taggers blindly vote it up meaning more work is needed to remove them. Worst case scenario is that you don't come online and we have no idea if those tags are valid or not, ruining search results until it's fixed.

But you are not a fanatic like me.

And no one should have to be in order to tag.

Why?

Same reason police officers and lawyers do. We establish and enforce tag definitions, we damn well better know what the hell they are.

I'd really hate to go through the entire "bondage" search result, just to find all the galleries I was looking for.

Sorry, but that's the limitation we have put in place with tagging. Not everyone will be satisfied and we're okay with that.

Isn't that a tag that gets voted down, because its not in use enough?

No, because no one knew / cared about it.

Again, if its in the gallery, why remove the tag?

But if the tag is otherways valid, why remove it?

It's not valid, people don't know what it is and didn't care about it before you showed up. What happens when another person wants a specialized tag? And another? And another?

I'd be more willing if we had [danbooru.donmai.us] tagging implications implemented on the site but sadly we don't have those so we have to use grouping way more.

Guess I got to use -group or something to find them now tho?

Use URLs like this:
https://e-hentai.org/tag/shibari

Then why allow them to?

How would we disallow it...?

If having tags is such an issue, why not just let the vigilate handle it?

We do. We can't tell when and where it happens automatically, so we have to check every gallery by hand.

Scaring them to use just the most generic kind of tags is not too good an idea in my opinion.

We don't need to scare anyone, we just group/blacklist tags.

Oh, why don't we just use "bondage" "soft" and "hardcore" then?

"soft" is blacklisted.
"hardcore" is for Cosplay only.

They're just not in use because it seems someone is deleting those tags.

And you know this how?

I see misuse of tags more in very small galleries.

It happens in larger ones too.

CENSORED, no?

Best edit your post, do not try to go around the wordfilter.

More images = higher chance for more fetishes

Chance yes, no guarantee.

Also, is there a way to tag multiple subtypes for a gallery?

Nope.

And I often see those tags just vanish.

Typically means they were invalid.

Thought, that tag is treated just as "this gal" by the search engine, right?

Nope. Every word fragment counts.

As I've said a few times by now, the good taggers are most likely long time members, right? Most likely have alot of hath perks, right?

Please don't make such assumptions.

Why not make it easy to find?/Why make it harder?

Every misuse makes things harder to find, hence why tags should be as idiot-proof as possible. Not just for taggers but for vigilantes too.

A large gallery poster is more likely to view the rules

Again, not a guarantee.

Okey, seems I'm getting just looping answers on some, so I'll stop asking those questions. Making the post long.

Why did no one else do it before? Because they didn't care. You seem to be the first person to ever bring it up.

There seemed to be alot of galleries tagged "shibari". Somebody must've cared.

Besides, I wasn't the first:
https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showt...&hl=shibari
https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?s=&am...st&p=326898
https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?s=&am...st&p=201662
You said something about making assumptions. I guess we both should stop doing that.

Nope. I can find 2000 image galleries with nothing special about their content. Try looking through some of those "my favorites" imagesets.

What about those that have a more reasonable amount of images, and a focus? 2000 images sounds like a screencap gallery, frame by frame. Or just uploading all you got.

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Gallery_Points
You make really big assumptions about uploaders.

I hardly see that as an counter argument? You wouldn't really get gallerypoints if nobody was interested, ergo, you must think somebody is.

Humiliation was recently blacklisted because it adds little to the sex and was hard to identify.

Well, that sucks.

"outside" is grouped under "exhibitionism".
"exhibitionism" - usage of 9939
"outside" - usage of 62

Ah, thats why I was getting results that were just way off.
How do I search without the group?
I tried adding the "-" but that just didn't seem to work.

I'm seeing conflicting statements here.

Where? It is japanese style bondage that is completely different than mere western bondage.
If you were reading manga, would you call it a cartoon?

A subtype of a subtype, no wonder it was practically never tagged.

It is a form in shibari, just because something doesn't get tagged alot, why should we remove it? Ya said your self, that its taggable if 2 people like it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Again, you assume too much when it comes to how and why people tag.

Well, there are some people who are visible, and do stupid things. Doesn't mean we should assume everyone is. Bush was a president for a while, ya know.

And yet it changes nothing for the sex. If she were inside in front of a green screen or a backdrop of a forest it would have the same impact.

Again, I disagree. You don't have to understand it, just let others enjoy it.

Subjective statement.

Well, while we are talking about opinions. Why not?

We have an "office girl" tag for the clothing fetish, seems to be good enough.

Well, I don't really care about office, bath, whatever, but just saying that some people might. Guess I won't argue for them.

We have the numbers, you don't.

I have differend set of numbers. Does the source matter? Well, I know you've been downtagging this source, wouldn't that make it invalid for comparing?

Being Japanese doesn't make it better as a tag.

So you wouldn't care if "manga" got grouped under "cartoons"? what a horrible statement.

No/minimal impact on sex.

in your opinion.

Mostly misuse. If someone went around tagging "shibari" on a bunch of galleries that didn't have it but did have bondage we'd have to wait for someone like you to tell us which are okay and which are not. While we wait for you some taggers blindly vote it up meaning more work is needed to remove them. Worst case scenario is that you don't come online and we have no idea if those tags are valid or not, ruining search results until it's fixed.

Well, that could be a problem. Why don't you just have the power to remove a tag then? Seen as you seem to be able to pretty much everything else, if its such a problem.

And no one should have to be in order to tag.

No, but a fanatic would be better at it. No?
Thats why, have people with different obsessions do the tagging for those obsessions. Helps everyone. (Well, if we have some very normative group, they wouldn't notice a difference.) Then again, I dislike the idea of opressing people to only enjoy the most generic content. You may disagree with the usage of word "opression" but thats just how I feel about it. Bigger/stronger group of people telling smaller groups what to do.

more coming.

This post has been edited by EroOu: Mar 26 2012, 00:22

Sorry, but that's the limitation we have put in place with tagging. Not everyone will be satisfied and we're okay with that.

So, why hoard content, then make it difficult to find?

No, because no one knew / cared about it.

Must be false if it got tagged. Please don't generalise so much.

It's not valid, people don't know what it is and didn't care about it before you showed up. What happens when another person wants a specialized tag? And another? And another?

Uhm, hard to believe that I am the first. Seen as how much said content you have, that content get lot of hits too, I got some 300k in just a few days with 2 galleries. So there are also users that are interested in it. Wasn't just visist, was hits.

I'd be more willing if we had tagging implications implemented on the site but sadly we don't have those so we have to use grouping way more.

I take it you have made an effort to get them, those would have been a good addition. Too bad we don't have them.

Use URLs like this:
https://e-hentai.org/tag/shibari

Thank you, couldn't seem to find the method, maybe I am just poor at searching.
I could've sworn I got more results before it was grouped under bondage tho. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

How would we disallow it...?

Well, one method would be to:
create a tag whitelist people can suggest tags to, everything else is blacklisted.
As for character names, make a small code to bypass the blacklist by string "name:" for example.
Now, I think it would be more clear to all what they can tag, less typos and whatnot. You already pretty much have an idea of what you want people to tag, no? and people using "name:" to bypass blacklist should be easier to confirm as abuse. Everybody wins.
Then, you could also have automated system to adding tags, like, let users suggest and vote on those. Or just let people make suggestions at vigilate and let them handle it, if ya think manual driving is better.
Thats a bit offtopic tho. Just a suggestion, since you asked.

And you know this how?

I see those tags getting removed. It would be awfully large coincidence if the times I've seen it happen would be the only ones.

Best edit your post, do not try to go around the wordfilter.

Oh, I thought it was part of the site, seen as it has the gp/credit values correct and I was able to delete my gallery that ended up there. So... its not?

Typically means they were invalid.

Well, lets rephrase, seen them, as valid tags for the gallery, vanish.

Nope. Every word fragment counts.

Oh, thought the wiki said first 8?

Any keywords in excess of 8 will be ignored. Only the first 8 will be used.

Oh, it was the search, not the tag.

Please don't make such assumptions.

Ok, though, you seem to make some too. Lets both stop doing assumptions?

Every misuse makes things harder to find, hence why tags should be as idiot-proof as possible. Not just for taggers but for vigilantes too.

Yes, it makes it harder to find when you got a bunch of taghappy people going around. Then again, it also makes it hard to find if you only got generic, idiotproof tags to work with.
Again, bondage gives me more than 10k results. How am I supposed to narrow it down?

Again, not a guarantee.

That is why I said "more likely". Though, making it scale from 0.5-15 instead of solid 10 would be a compromice between this, wouldn't it? If its small gallery the uploader is more likely to be just totally random in my opinion.
When I first uploaded, I did read through the rules about gategorizing 2 times, tagging 3 times, tos once, since the "Terms of service" usually translates to "boring kinda lawtext that you wouldn't understand without a degree" which it quite wasn't, but thats what I thought it was when I saw the "Terms of service"

Humiliation was recently blacklisted for being hard to identify? You've got to be kidding me...

On an unrelated note: the topic.

On your assumption about hath perks, I joined this site before the galleries existed and I don't have and do not want any of those perks.

You read a tagging guide 3 times and still can not understand why there are large galleries with few tags.

From one guide (written in red no less):

If something happens only in one or two pictures of a 100 picture image set, that's not enough reason to tag it. People looking for the tag in general will waste time looking through the gallery. This is not Danbooru-type site - those tag per-image, we tag per-gallery.

The first lines of the tagging section of the wiki:

In general, do not tag something unless it has a fair amount of presence in a gallery.
For example: 10+ out of 80 images would be sufficient for tagging, especially if they are sequential. Anything found in only 1-2 images should almost never be tagged. The exceptions to this are marked below in red.

Better read the tagging guides again. The reason those galleries have few tags is that the are completely random or contain mostly generic images like basic images from game CGs.

Just because people upload larger galleries does not mean they know the rules. In the last 24 hours there was a guy who uploaded a bunch of 1000 image galleries that were at least 1/3 duplicated in the gallery and a very large number of the images appeared in multiple galleries. While not against the rules these are things the community hates and this i pretty well known. I've seen 300+ image galleries where at least half is prohibited content.

How are you supposed to find your specific fetish? Try doing a little manual filtering or going somewhere that caters to your specific fetish. To cater to people like you a random bondage gallery would need bondage, shibari, stocks, pillory, handcuffs, bricked into the wall, and probably several other tags that all amount to different ways to say bondage. So instead to tagging a dozen ways of saying the same thing we tag one.

This post has been edited by Shadow Weaver: Mar 26 2012, 06:25

There seemed to be alot of galleries tagged "shibari".

18 is a lot!?

What about those that have a more reasonable amount of images, and a focus?

They may or may not have taggable content. Simple as that.

I hardly see that as an counter argument?

Then you have no idea why people upload galleries.

You wouldn't really get gallerypoints if nobody was interested, ergo, you must think somebody is.

There are so many things wrong with this statement it's not even funny. I'm sorry but I'm losing patience discussing things when you say stuff like this. You make hugely baseless assumptions about the galleries and tagging in general. You've had an account for just over a week and you're trying to convince me that you understand the community more than me.

How do I search without the group?

https://e-hentai.org/tag/TagNameGoesHere

It is japanese style bondage that is completely different than mere western bondage.

A person is tied up, I don't see a massive difference.

If you were reading manga, would you call it a cartoon?

You mean comic book or graphic novel, and yes. It is what it is.

just because something doesn't get tagged alot, why should we remove it?

If it doesn't get tagged a lot it's not going to be searched for a lot either. And again, every approved tag needs to be babysat, so it better be used a lot.

Ya said your self, that its taggable if 2 people like it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

I should clarify that that was a joke... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Well, there are some people who are visible, and do stupid things. Doesn't mean we should assume everyone is.

The difference is that just a few stupid people can seriously ruin a lot of tags and galleries in a very short amount of time.

You don't have to understand it

I understand it just fine, it has no impact on sex.

Well, while we are talking about opinions. Why not?

I meant that tags are not subjective. Went a bit off topic there.

Well, I don't really care about office, bath, whatever, but just saying that some people might.

Then they can argue for them when I inevitably put them onto the chopping block. My signature shows what tags are up for blacklisting/grouping for a week.

I have differend set of numbers. Does the source matter?

Yes. Please provide your source.

Well, I know you've been downtagging this source

Huh? I don't think I have ever downvoted a single tag that you've mentioned.

So you wouldn't care if "manga" got grouped under "cartoons"?

I said that being Japanese doesn't make it more valid as a tag. You made it sound like that was a big factor.

Why don't you just have the power to remove a tag then?

Only Tenboro can do that and that's how it should stay. It's too dangerous for anyone else to be able to do that.

No, but a fanatic would be better at it. No?

Better yes. But they shouldn't be the only capable ones.

Thats why, have people with different obsessions do the tagging for those obsessions. Helps everyone.

Sounds good on paper, in practice it's far more work from vigilantes and non-"obsessed" taggers.

Bigger/stronger group of people telling smaller groups what to do.

Said group of people were around when tagging was added (minus me). They are the ones who established the whole philosophy of what can be tagged and what cannot. You're about 3 years too late to change that.

Humiliation was recently blacklisted for being hard to identify? You've got to be kidding me...

Was done at the beginning of February.

So, why hoard content, then make it difficult to find?

No one here "hoards". The only person with access to every single gallery's content is Tenboro. And there was a time before tagging was introduced.

Must be false if it got tagged.

The tag in question had low usage, so if you want me to rephrase fine. FEW people care about it.

Please don't generalise so much.

Look who's talking.

Uhm, hard to believe that I am the first.

You are. The last time anyone brought it up was in 2010 and it was just part of a list of fetish explanations, not a request for it as a tag.

I got some 300k in just a few days with 2 galleries.

Was it because they had shibari?

I take it you have made an effort to get them, those would have been a good addition. Too bad we don't have them.

I have yet to request it as I have another proposal that I'm pushing forward first.

create a tag whitelist people can suggest tags to, everything else is blacklisted.

God no.

Oh, I thought it was part of the site

What I meant was that uploaders shouldn't be afraid of their galleries going there. It happens for a reason and it should not be avoided. I can't really get into details because the rules prohibit it.

Well, lets rephrase, seen them, as valid tags for the gallery, vanish.

Post examples please.

Then again, it also makes it hard to find if you only got generic, idiotproof tags to work with.

Not everything is going to be findable via tags, we know that and we're okay with it. We're not a specialty site so we try to keep things broad and well understood. Is it perfect? Heck no. Is it working well enough for most of the community? Yes.

How am I supposed to narrow it down?

Add a second term.

EDIT: Hmm, where is the button to delete posts? This oughta not be here.

This post has been edited by EroOu: Mar 26 2012, 06:19

18 is a lot!?

Before it got grouped under bondage, I got way more results for it. Just searching for shibari seemed to bring like 700ish galleries? Can't remember, it was alot. Seweral hundreds. I think 700ish. Now that its under bondage, it just doesn't anymore. And yes, those galleries realy did contain shibari as I looked at them. Well, obviously I did not look at them all, but I just jumped a few pages and started randomclicking.

They may or may not have taggable content. Simple as that.

Circling. Going nowhere. I'll just drop here.

Then you have no idea why people upload galleries.

I know why I upload. If there is one voicing something, there are probably alot who just stayed quiet.

There are so many things wrong with this statement it's not even funny. I'm sorry but I'm losing patience discussing things when you say stuff like this. You make hugely baseless assumptions about the galleries and tagging in general. You've had an account for just over a week and you're trying to convince me that you understand the community more than me.

No, you know the community better as it is working now. However, I got an idea, and am standing by it. Wouldn't you? Well, I think I'll just stop dragging this conversation though, not going to far away places.
And no, I haven't had an account before, but yes, I have been visisting here for a few years. (Not that frequently tho, hard to find anything.) Made account to upload stuff/play hentia.

A person is tied up, I don't see a massive difference.

If it doesn't get tagged a lot it's not going to be searched for a lot either. And again, every approved tag needs to be babysat, so it better be used a lot.

Circling.

I should clarify that that was a joke...

Hmh? I liked the idea tho.

I understand it just fine, it has no impact on sex.

Still disagreeing, circling.

Yes. Please provide your source.

Over at gelbooru, shibari seems to be in 3000 images, while bondage is in 30000. Thats around 10% and there are alot of images that would deserve the tag too.
Over at pixiv, I got 4000 images with 縛り (shibari) in pixiv, while 16000 with SM. thats around 25%
Ofcourse, at pixiv, using 緊縛 (kinbaku) would yeald double the result, around 8000 images, which would be half of all SM content.
In the west, you can consider kinbaku as shibari. (The word "shibari" came into larger use in the west around 90's, to describe kinbaku.)

Huh? I don't think I have ever downvoted a single tag that you've mentioned.

Oh, I thank you for that, and I am sorry for making such baseless accusations. I am just frustrated at whoever is doing it.
I guess being grouped under bondage protects the tags too?

I said that being Japanese doesn't make it more valid as a tag. You made it sound like that was a big factor.

No, where it is from isn't such a big factor, but I like to credit where credit is due. Its the way it is done that matters.

This post has been edited by EroOu: Mar 26 2012, 07:14

Better yes. But they shouldn't be the only capable ones.

Yes, I agree. But as a fanatic, I'd hate to see those tags getting mistreated by people who do not quite get them.

Said group of people were around when tagging was added (minus me). They are the ones who established the whole philosophy of what can be tagged and what cannot. You're about 3 years too late to change that.

Sucks for me I guess. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

No one here "hoards". The only person with access to every single gallery's content is Tenboro. And there was a time before tagging was introduced.

Hmm, so, atleast we are going into a better direction then, eh?

The tag in question had low usage, so if you want me to rephrase fine. FEW people care about it.

Please refer to the numbers I got from elsewhere.

Was it because they had shibari?

In the first one it was the main point, and second had it in the luring pic too. (the first pic of the gallery)

You are. The last time anyone brought it up was in 2010 and it was just part of a list of fetish explanations, not a request for it as a tag.

Well, I wasn't the first then. https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showt...&hl=shibari
and that doesn't seem like fetish explanation. So I guess I am not the only one having hard time to find content.

I have yet to request it as I have another proposal that I'm pushing forward first.

Oh?Well, if it means anything, you have my support in it.

Post examples please.

Well, I haven't gotten it on video, but for example, me tagging my own galleries, the tags just seem to go away. (First gallery I upload, second gallery I upload, third I just put the content in the description. Didn't feel like taggingsystem was workign that well. Bleh, whish more uploades would do it, would make description searching a valid option, I guess. I know I'll add better description for the galleries I already uploaded, after few weeks. (As not to edit them too frequently.))

Add a second term.

That is one thing I am trying to say, there needs to be that second term that I can narrow it down with.

Heck no. Is it working well enough for most of the community? Yes.

Ohwell, I guess I'll just back down, I thank you for the argument, I appriciate the care you put into reading through the thread. However, I feel I am not getting anywhere here, and the questions and answers seem to have been circling for a while now. Well, I hope the numbers I provided would give each who read this thread some insight, while remembering that shibari is just one example, one in many I believe.

This post has been edited by EroOu: Mar 26 2012, 06:44

Over at gelbooru, shibari seems to be in 3000 images, while bondage is in 30000. Thats around 10% and there are alot of images that would deserve the tag too.
Over at pixiv, I got 4000 images with 縛り (shibari) in pixiv, while 16000 with SM. thats around 25%
Ofcourse, at pixiv, using 緊縛 (kinbaku) would yeald double the result, around 8000 images, which would be half of all SM content.

I have said many times this is not gelbooru, don't tag like it was. Your example here doesn't really matter to us because we are not gelbooru or pixiv (although I wonder sometimes given how much of their content we have), we have our own tagging system and our own set of rules.

How did you get "700ish" hits for shibari before grouping when it was only entered into the system 251 times total?

Before it got grouped under bondage, I got way more results for it. Just searching for shibari seemed to bring like 700ish galleries?

That can't be right, grouping doesn't have that kind of effect. I think maybe you got a bunch of non-related results (e.g. stuff by the circle "Shibarism"). If you did a plain search with the default search options that would be the case for sure.

I know why I upload.

Good, but others do it just out of greed.

However, I got an idea, and am standing by it. Wouldn't you?

Fair enough.

Over at gelbooru, shibari seems to be in 3000 images, while bondage is in 30000. Thats around 10% and there are alot of images that would deserve the tag too.
Over at pixiv, I got 4000 images with 縛り (shibari) in pixiv, while 16000 with SM. thats around 25%

As I (and others) have said many times, we don't do thing like the -booru sites. They take a very fine-grained approach to tagging because it's much easier for them (single images, not whole galleries) and they have a more accommodating system to handle it. We take a more broad approach and thus our tolerance for more specific tags is much much lower.

Also just FYI, pixiv takes a very [en.wikipedia.org] unique approach to tagging.

I guess being grouped under bondage protects the tags too?

Not quite, it prevent it from being tagged further and searches for "bondage" will now include it.

Hmm, so, atleast we are going into a better direction then, eh?

Yes, and we hope to keep improving but from my end not much more can be done. Only Tenboro can make big changes to the tagging system.

In the first one it was the main point, and second had it in the luring pic too. (the first pic of the gallery)

True, but we can't really say one way or the other whether your hits were a result of shibari or just people who like bondage in general (or perhaps the particular artist or something else).

Well, I wasn't the first then. https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showt...&hl=shibari
and that doesn't seem like fetish explanation. So I guess I am not the only one having hard time to find content.

A single user with only 1 post ever made making a request in 2009... Not quite a "big" demand now is it? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Oh?Well, if it means anything, you have my support in it.

Thanks. Here's the proposal. It may have at least some implementation, hopefully.

As I (and others) have said many times, we don't do thing like the -booru sites. They take a very fine-grained approach to tagging because it's much easier for them (single images, not whole galleries) and they have a more accommodating system to handle it. We take a more broad approach and thus our tolerance for more specific tags is much much lower.

Also just FYI, pixiv takes a very unique approach to tagging.

Just to remind, you did ask for reference numbers from other sources. And even if the systems are different, 10%-25% should make it "not so specific". Ohwell, just wanted to point that out.

That can't be right, grouping doesn't have that kind of effect. I think maybe you got a bunch of non-related results (e.g. stuff by the circle "Shibarism"). If you did a plain search with the default search options that would be the case for sure.

Yes, I think it odd too. Having done quite a bit of coding my self, and having feedback, I know the problem is most likely in the user, me. So yeah, nothing to complain about it then. Though I got to say, it did seem to bring correct kind of content. (Maybe it was just a coincidence, as shibari is largerly present in the database?)

Not quite, it prevent it from being tagged further and searches for "bondage" will now include it.

So, if I vote shibari with 10 mod power, it becomes searchable, right? But if I vote it with 8, it doesn't, and never will? Ouch (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

A single user with only 1 post ever made making a request in 2009... Not quite a "big" demand now is it?

No, its really not. And I take it quite odd, actually. I mean, sure, he was just looking for the content and couldn't find it (and got no help finding it either. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ) But I would've thought there were more people talking about stuff like this. Well, maybe I'm just not so good at finding things.

So, if I vote shibari with 10 mod power, it becomes searchable, right? But if I vote it with 8, it doesn't, and never will?

You can search for tags with less than 10 mod power by using the Deep Tag Searching option in advanced searching.