[X] My Assistant

EDIT: Okey, so it turned out to be a bit longer post. But still, please don't just tldr>reply
My actual point is in the suggestion #2 and #1

Like, I've seen quite a few galleries with alot of images, but only a few tags, and even more galleries with just a few images but a ton of tags. This makes finding the good galleries with good amount of images rather difficult.

Here is a few examples I found by searching at random in just a few minutes, there are probably a ton of similar cases:
https://e-hentai.org/g/211950/38f758a79f/ 200+ images, great gallery, hardly any tags that would help me find it
https://e-hentai.org/g/468726/1b02cd9e1c/ 200+ images, great gallery. Are you completely sure there is no other way to describe this gallery than 2 tags: "Big breasts" and "Resa otto"?
https://e-hentai.org/g/461233/ea3f18c905/ 100 images, one tag that really triggers no search.
https://e-hentai.org/g/318011/e67e82a52f/ 50+ images, one tag
https://e-hentai.org/g/461081/a544103bdb/ 50+ images, one tag
https://e-hentai.org/g/461240/ea4f459e99/ 100 images, 3 tags
https://e-hentai.org/g/461083/ebffe757f6/ 50+ images, one tag
https://e-hentai.org/g/465315/0495f3196d/ Atleast tags like "photo" (its in image sets?) "shibari" "kimono" "outside" missing imo
https://e-hentai.org/g/475564/03cb287e16/ 50+ images, all the tags generic as hell
https://e-hentai.org/g/204578/2c569ee0f5/ 50+ images, tags "bondage" and "bdsm"
https://e-hentai.org/g/459309/9929cb7686/ 400+ images, mainly just names and generic
https://e-hentai.org/g/457356/a532113fdc/ 100+ images, these tags tell me nothing the first pic didn't tell
https://e-hentai.org/g/456535/0d7952a4ae/ 100+ images, only generic tags
https://e-hentai.org/g/476323/7a7e7ee0ac/ 150+ images, give less info than the first picture on the gallery

and the opposite:
https://e-hentai.org/g/14042/7469084b67/ less than 50 images, around as many tags as the previous galleries combined.
https://e-hentai.org/g/13970/dbc6db5109/ less than 30, more than any two of the other galleries combined
https://e-hentai.org/g/13205/4deb0400fa/ 16 images, more than any of the above galleries combined.

Now, I figure, the more there is tags, the better, since this helps find the galleries. As long as the gallery contains it, in some decent amount.

Also, don't say "But that gallery with a few hundred images only contains bdsm, there are no other tags to describe that gallery" how on earth would that be possible? Unless all the images were just a scene from some anime frame by frame, in which case the gallery ought to be expunged.
Or "its non-h gallery, nobody wants to find anything there" just don't search non-h galleries then.


And its not always about "Oh, maybe the gallery just hasn't been tagged yet?" I know, since I've seen galleries that had decent, correct tags done by person with low mod power (could be a new uploader ect) come back later, tags gone. (Yes, happened to my gallery too.)


So, my suggestion is:
#1 The uploader is most likely THE person who knows what the gallery contains, he should get a 2x or 3x modifier (capped at some appropriate number) to his modpower while tagging his own gallery.
He should also have the same modifier to clean the unuseful/misleading tags.
#2 People voting down tags without a) downloading the gallery b') viewing each page should get their modpower capped at 1 or 5. Low? Yes. But then again, how do they know it doesn't contain the said tag?
Even if the tag in question is "bath" they shouldn't be allowed to vote it down without viewing the gallery, as this just represents their opinion on fetishes, (e.g. "bath isn't fetish, don't tag it" *) what about all the people who actually want to find bath stuff?
#3 Is it ok to tag a gallery "tag this"? I think it should be. All galleries should be tagged with appropriate amount of tags, the galleries with more images probly with more tags. (They should, by my logic, have more content than galleries with, lets say, 15 images.)
(( 4. And add perhaps an additional mod power modifier for any user tagging a gallery, to push the amount of tags towards gallery size category, e.g. gallery with 100+ images should have more content than gallery with 10 images, and as such, shoul be easier to tag with more tags. So lets say 0-30 images=5 tags, small gallery having less than 5 tags, could give mod power of 1.2x while adding a new tag, and another 0.8x while voting down. And vice versa: small gallery with more than 5 tags, when voting down would have 1.2x modifier and 0.8x while adding new ones. )) (4. is just an random idea, ignoring it is ok.)

Also, in wiki it says tagging galleries can get ya a tagging ban, if you don't use appropriate tags. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)
Sounds a bit like: "If your tag gets voted down, ya can't tag no more." and people are reluctant to add new tags, just vote on the tags already existing. (Like, voting down if they don't personally agree with the tag, while someone else might)

* yes, I know in wiki, it says don't tag "Most locations that have little or no impact on the story or the eroticism. " but I'd like to believe this refers to location names rather than type. E.g. "akihabara" instead of "public"

I know that, for some reason, people are dead afraid of garbage tags. But then again, I fail to see how its more important to have the gallery tagged with minimum amount of tags, instead of actually finding the gallery (even if it had total garbage tags, such as "nice tits")

Increasing tag power for the uploader might be a good idea, but I'll hear some more opinions before todo-listing it.

As for tag bans, those are quite rare, and only given in case of obvious, widespread misuse. There's only been 107 of them ever, and that includes people who have been abusing ratings, comments and other stuff covered by the block.

edit - Short version: I could see upping tagging mod power for new and/or low power uploaders being useful. Holding back mod power for everyone else (for any reason besides abusive behavior) and further enhancing established uploaders tagging mod power would have little to no effect, if not counterproductive.


TL;DR. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Like, I've seen quite a few galleries with alot of images, but only a few tags, and even more galleries with just a few images but a ton of tags. This makes finding the good galleries with good amount of images rather difficult.

If you notice this, then try tagging, maybe work your karma up for more mod power so they actually stick. Maybe put down a comment in the gallery to point out parodied characters (that occur more than a couple times).

As for your examples of the opposite, look at the power on those tags. The ones that obviously belong or of which others agreed have high scores on them. The other ones were likely done by one or two users at best (lurkers or otherwise low power users). Then you take into consideration the tagger themselves. Maybe they went overboard? Maybe they really know the characters in the series the doujinshi is a parody of? Perhaps some of those tags are simply old and deprecated, since you happened to link 3 galleries from 2007 for instance.

It's a matter of how interested users are in the gallery, and how willing they are to identify characters or other relevant themes.

So, my suggestion is:
#1 The uploader is most likely THE person who knows what the gallery contains, he should get a 2x or 3x modifier (capped at some appropriate number) to his modpower while tagging his own gallery.

You'd be surprised how often people just upload whatever archives/gallery site rips they get there hands on, even if they have no idea what it actually is (other than "it's anime porn herp derp"). During Comiket time it's a race to see who can upload what first, and often times they don't have the time to tag, or even romanize japanese titles. They simply leave it for the taggers/renamers.

At the same time, what the uploader assumes to be appropriate and what is considered appropriate/relevant according to the guidelines (which happens to be written by users for users) can, may and have been two different things before. Having that kind of modifier makes it take that much longer to downvote what would otherwise be considered a bad tag, though at this point in the game, that's probably not so much an issue anymore.

Granted, those people would be in the minority, and it would help new users uploading for the first time to get over the threshold for tags to become active in regular searches.

He should also have the same modifier to clean the unuseful/misleading tags.

Again, up to the discretion/interpretation of the uploader. They could very well attempt to remove tags they don't like, even if they are relevant. I've seen it happen multiple times in the past, but thankfully few if any agreed with the uploader's sentiment.

#2 People voting down tags without a) downloading the gallery b') viewing each page should get their modpower capped at 1 or 5. Low? Yes. But then again, how do they know it doesn't contain the said tag?
Even if the tag in question is "bath" they shouldn't be allowed to vote it down without viewing the gallery, as this just represents their opinion on fetishes, (e.g. "bath isn't fetish, don't tag it" *) what about all the people who actually want to find bath stuff?

A horrible waste of time for users that would otherwise properly tag a gallery. I for one am fully capable of tagging from THUMBNAILS ONLY, and be 100% accurate in the tags I do put down. Others might not be, but that is why almost everyone is on the same scale for tagging mod power. If others recognize a bad tag it generally is voted down. If not that, there are enough hardcore taggers that a considerable number of bad tags will be brought up in the Vigilante forum for removal.

If it is more of a question of relevancy, you can always try and state your case here. Again, the guidelines are written by users, and most of the time a general consensus was made prior to a tag or set of tags being considered bad.

Also, in wiki it says tagging galleries can get ya a tagging ban, if you don't use appropriate tags. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)
Sounds a bit like: "If your tag gets voted down, ya can't tag no more." and people are reluctant to add new tags, just vote on the tags already existing. (Like, voting down if they don't personally agree with the tag, while someone else might)

Abusive tagging of galleries or abusively downvoting may get you a tagging ban. There's a difference. Again, you point out the tagger's personal opinion/interpretation, which is why everyone is on the same scale.

I know that, for some reason, people are dead afraid of garbage tags. But then again, I fail to see how its more important to have the gallery tagged with minimum amount of tags, instead of actually finding the gallery (even if it had total garbage tags, such as "nice tits")

Garbage tags make the "tag list" unnecessarily cluttered. MANY bad tags either state the obvious or what is already commonplace, or state a comment or opinion, which neither are necessary.

It's not that users are afraid of them, more like taggers want to destroy them with extreme prejudice. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)


edit: deleted an extra block of quote text I didn't mean to keep.

This post has been edited by Spectre: Mar 24 2012, 13:00

I believe increasing power for the uploader is a good idea as well. I.e. if he has less than 10 mod power, increase it to 10. Giving a flat multiplier might be a bad idea though, as people can get high mod power without having any hand in tags.

10 makes the gallery searchable in the "good tag" range, easily downvotable by anyone if it's wrong, and the uploader can't really abuse it too much without getting detected.

I recall having less than 10 power being the reason I hardly bothered tagging my early galleries (felt pointless).

Here is a few examples I found by searching at random in just a few minutes, there are probably a ton of similar cases:

And what tags should be added to those?

Now, I figure, the more there is tags, the better, since this helps find the galleries. As long as the gallery contains it, in some decent amount.

In general yes.

Unless all the images were just a scene from some anime frame by frame, in which case the gallery ought to be expunged.

Screenshot galleries are permitted (at least for now).

Or "its non-h gallery, nobody wants to find anything there" just don't search non-h galleries then.

We almost lost that entire category because of lack of hits they get. They still get tagged but they tend to have a very low priority.

I know, since I've seen galleries that had decent, correct tags done by person with low mod power (could be a new uploader ect) come back later, tags gone.

Post links to them in forum if you feel incorrect tagging has taken place.

#1 The uploader is most likely THE person who knows what the gallery contains

But not the most likely to have read the tagging guidelines. I'd agree with you if that point could be dealt with somehow.

He should also have the same modifier to clean the unuseful/misleading tags.

Too dangerous, they might remove fjording tags.

#2 People voting down tags without a) downloading the gallery b') viewing each page should get their modpower capped at 1 or 5. Low? Yes. But then again, how do they know it doesn't contain the said tag?

Huge waste of bandwidth for both sides and there's no guarantee that someone who downloaded or clicked each image really looked at them or knows how to tag.

Even if the tag in question is "bath" they shouldn't be allowed to vote it down without viewing the gallery, as this just represents their opinion on fetishes, (e.g. "bath isn't fetish, don't tag it" *)

Just FYI the "bath" tag's fate has yet to be decided. It's still neutral at this time.

what about all the people who actually want to find bath stuff?

Assuming the tag gets blacklisted, they're screwed.

#3 Is it ok to tag a gallery "tag this"? I think it should be.

Every gallery is a "tag this" gallery. Otherwise we would disable tagging on galleries once we felt they had been tagged perfectly and needed no further changes.

All galleries should be tagged with appropriate amount of tags, the galleries with more images probly with more tags. (They should, by my logic, have more content than galleries with, lets say, 15 images.)

More images = more content
More images =/= more fetishes

"If your tag gets voted down, ya can't tag no more." and people are reluctant to add new tags, just vote on the tags already existing. (Like, voting down if they don't personally agree with the tag, while someone else might)

Downvoting can also result in a ban. I can reword the wiki to make it more clear that bans only happen to the biggest of abusers.

I know in wiki, it says don't tag "Most locations that have little or no impact on the story or the eroticism. " but I'd like to believe this refers to location names rather than type. E.g. "akihabara" instead of "public"

I have never seen a request where a user remembers that the story took place in Akihabara. It has no impact on the sex in any way.

minimum amount of tags

What minimum?

Increasing tag power for the uploader might be a good idea, but I'll hear some more opinions before todo-listing it.

Add a link to the Tagging article on the wiki first. If people need to agree to the RoE before uploading then tagging should get similar treatment when giving extra mod power.

if he has less than 10 mod power, increase it to 10..

1. Could be a good idea. However, most uploaders won't bother tagging their own galleries. Some of them are racing to upload dozens of galleries a day and simply don't have the time to tag everything. Others just don't tag. And yes you would think uploaders know the content of their galleries the best but that doesn't mean they know how to tag the best. Still could probably work, but won't have much on an effect.

2. Terrible terrible idea. Theres a lot of bad tags that get to several hundred mod power before someone active in the vigilante spots it. It mod power were capped at 5 for downvote, then they would never be killed. People may not always look before they vote down a tag, but I guarantee its more likely they don't look before adding a tag. Mod power for voting down is already cut in half and I don't see a big problem. It's impossible for a random troll or bad tagger to kill a good tag. And what about spotting things from just thumbnails? EDIT 2 - Or especially imageset or screenshot galleries with 2000 pics?

3. Useless. A gallery will get tagged whether or not that is there. The top taggers all go through each and every gallery uploaded every day. Theres also little reason why a gallery with more pictures needs to have more tags than a smaller gallery. A good imageset gallery with a focus on 1 character might have 3 tags - artist, character, series - It would be appropriately tagged. A bad gallery that mixes hundreds of series and fetishes ("seriously why do people insist on uploading "My fav" or "Random" galleries) might no have enough of anything in significant amounts. There's usually little reason to tag them even though you claim you want to be able to find it because there usually are smaller, more focused galleries containing the same pictures.

EDIT - joe, stop beating me by seconds every time >.>

This post has been edited by Kaosumx: Mar 24 2012, 17:35

if he has less than 10 mod power, increase it to 10.

I agree with this suggestion as well.

Also, in wiki it says tagging galleries can get ya a tagging ban, if you don't use appropriate tags.

Just curious, where did you read this?

6AM posting after 48 hours of being up = bad time for ghosts to post. Freaking wall of text of death. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Oh, this actually brought some constructive replies. One thing to be happy about.

Quoting everyone would make this message a bit long and messy, so I'll just reply in general:


@Spectre
Well, I wasn't saying that having many tags on a gallery is a bad thing, on the contrary. With those examples I just wanted to point out that, in some cases, its a bit random on how the tags find their way to the gallery, possibly due to the time uploaded.

As for the uploaded not having time to tag his own gallery, even if we did up the gallery creators upload power, I hardly see this as an problem. If he is in a hurry, he can always come back later and vote up the tags he agrees on. And even if he doesnt, its not like anyone would lose anything.

I didn't mean that you would need to go through the gallery image by image, I mean, atleast visit all the (index)pages of the gallery. Lets say a user ending up in a gallery that has 10 (index)pages, and he starts downvoting tags when only seen pg. 1 (10% of the entire gallerys thumbnails), is what I meant. I really do not see how he would know that the rest of the 9 pages contain no such content.

As for garbage tags, well, I am a bit new as you might have noticed, and I might not be too good at using the search (yet), but I just feel entering the keywords I'm looking for should bring up the results. However, seen as I started going through galleries by just the bdsm keyword, and quite a few galleries that had good content, and variety of that content, merely got the bdsm tag, maybe bondage too, and the gallery's name/artist. So if I was looking for a bit more specific content, I wouldn't have found those great galleries. (Even if they would've contained the more strict criteria, they just were not tagged with anything else than the bdsm and bondage tags.)


@Ichizon
Hmm, you managed to enlighten me further on how the search works. Thank you for that. However, if 10 is the limit, how about make it 20 instead, so a random beginner can't get it under the search limit but a group of random beginners can. Or one even a bit more experienced user. (Like a taggin zealot.)


@Maximum_Joe
https://e-hentai.org/g/465315/0495f3196d/ Atleast tags like "photo" (its in image sets?) "shibari" "kimono" "outside" missing imo
^as an example.

As for screenshot galleries, yes, I hear they are permitted. What I meant is that I've seen galleries with 800 images, and no content. When I said frame by frame, I really meant it. (Lets assume one second is 25 frames.) They fall under the "garbage" report option I believe?

Hmm, I appriciate you reading through my post in detail, thank you for that. Think I got to resort to quotes after all (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Too dangerous, they might remove fjording tags.

Wouldn't that be counted as abusing? Well, I understand your point tho. However, does it matter if he can downvote fjording tags with lets say 10 score, or 20? I think people upvote fjording tags real quick.

Huge waste of bandwidth for both sides and there's no guarantee that someone who downloaded or clicked each image really looked at them or knows how to tag.

I still think they should view the thumbnails. (Sorry if I was misleading, saying "page" where I really meant the index pages.) If you've only seen 10% of the content (I mean, in thumbnails) how can you downvote a legit tag?

Every gallery is a "tag this" gallery. Otherwise we would disable tagging on galleries once we felt they had been tagged perfectly and needed no further changes.

I think you misunderstood me. What I mean, is give the gallery a tag "tag this". So lets say you're a tagging zealot. You got nothing to do, and think you'll be nice for some folks. You search for "tag this" galleries to find the ones that have very little to no tags. (I think that tag should be boolean instead of integer, if anyhow possible.)

Downvoting can also result in a ban. I can reword the wiki to make it more clear that bans only happen to the biggest of abusers.

Oh, sounds good. I think it just sounded a bit intemidating to a new user like me. Thats why I hardly tag if I am not 100% sure. I've also read the tagging guidelines around 3 times now =/

I have never seen a request where a user remembers that the story took place in Akihabara. It has no impact on the sex in any way.

I think you misunderstood me again. What I am saying, "akihabara" as a specific location is bad. I just want to believe that a location type, like "bath" is all good. (Or office, or public, or metro for people with those respectitive fetishes.)

What minimum?

"How low can you go" type of minimum. Like, some people seem to remove tags until there is just the most generic left. (E.g. the galleries that only have bdsm and bondage tags left.)

@Kaosumx
1. same as I said @Spectre, it would hardly hurt anyone even if the uploader didn't use his bonus, would just left the tagging for others as it is now.

2. Ok, now I believe I really worded it misleadingly. I mean, "all pages" as in "all index pages".
People with alot of mod power for downvoting also usually have a ton of rows per page, meaning they have less indexes to go through. So what I am saying is: see the thumbnails, know the content, be able to decide that it doesn't contain the said tag.

EDIT: Oh, I found this in wiki

"Could not vote for tag. Reason: You cannot possibly have taken the time to look at the gallery in that short time. You must wait 10 seconds between tagging different galleries."

What I was going after is something a bit similar to this, that would take into account the gallery size, by making sure the user has had a chance to atleast view all the indexes. But only for down voting. E.g. you can see some content on the first page too, so you can add tags, but you can't be sure a tag isn't present in the gallery without checking the gallery's thumbnails for the other index pages. (if there are any.)

Just curious, where did you read this?

Now that you ask, that is a good question. I thought it was on the tagging page in wiki, but I can't seem to find it. However, I am sure I got that from somewhere... Anyone know? Could it have been on forum? I checked the TOS for uploading, and couldn't find it htere either.


EDIT:
I feel as if I was using caps when I bold some text, but fear thats the only way to make it a bit clearer without forcing everyone to read the whole wall of text (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

EDIT:

6AM posting after 48 hours of being up = bad time for ghosts to post. Freaking wall of text of death. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Eh, I think I just got you a wall of text (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by EroOu: Mar 24 2012, 21:12

Now that you ask, that is a good question. I thought it was on the tagging page in wiki, but I can't seem to find it. However, I am sure I got that from somewhere... Anyone know? Could it have been on forum? I checked the TOS for uploading, and couldn't find it htere either.

It may have been from the guides:

So again tags should contain useful information and not your personal opinion or things that are assumed. If you start putting a lot of bad tags, people will complain and you could lose your tagging privileges. Please do not tag old galleries as mistakes in those will automatically net you a warning which can also lead to a tagging ban.

I don't think you should be too worried about bans though. They are handed out to abusive users, from what I know. This means downvoting someone's tags, galleries or comments, or making a mass of bad tags at once (for score or something). Just making marginally bad tags alongside good tags won't do much, as far as I know.

It may have been from the guides:
I don't think you should be too worried about bans though. They are handed out to abusive users, from what I know. This means downvoting someone's tags, galleries or comments, or making a mass of bad tags at once (for score or something). Just making marginally bad tags alongside good tags won't do much, as far as I know.

Oh, that answers that. I was so sure it was the wiki. Thank you.

https://e-hentai.org/g/465315/0495f3196d/ Atleast tags like "photo" (its in image sets?) "shibari" "kimono" "outside" missing imo

Photo - Technical and meaningless. Pretty much anything not drawn is a photo.
Shibari - Is that her name?
Kimono - Yes, this one seems valid.
Outside - Too generic.

It doesn't matter for that one though since it will be going away soon enough when Asian Porn is purged.

When I said frame by frame, I really meant it. (Lets assume one second is 25 frames.) They fall under the "garbage" report option I believe?

Sadly I don't think so (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Wouldn't that be counted as abusing? Well, I understand your point tho. However, does it matter if he can downvote fjording tags with lets say 10 score, or 20? I think people upvote fjording tags real quick.

There is a conflict of interest when it comes to fjording tags, we can't trust all uploaders to be honest about them.

I still think they should view the thumbnails. (Sorry if I was misleading, saying "page" where I really meant the index pages.) If you've only seen 10% of the content (I mean, in thumbnails) how can you downvote a legit tag?

Whenever someone posts a translation of a work already in the galleries there is no need to go through all of its images an additional time. That's just 1 example.

So lets say you're a tagging zealot. You got nothing to do

Yeah, I wish. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/faint.gif)

There are thousands upon thousands of older galleries that need going over. There is never a shortage of tagging work to be done.

You search for "tag this" galleries to find the ones that have very little to no tags. (I think that tag should be boolean instead of integer, if anyhow possible.)

Who gets to decide when to switch such a flag on and off? Plenty of galleries are fine with few/no tags.

I just want to believe that a location type, like "bath" is all good. (Or office, or public, or metro for people with those respectitive fetishes.)

Same problem, locations have little/no impact on sex. Most sex scenes take place in nondescript locations because artists don't really care. "Bath" and maybe a few others are still up for debate.

"How low can you go" type of minimum. Like, some people seem to remove tags until there is just the most generic left. (E.g. the galleries that only have bdsm and bondage tags left.)

Again, for some galleries the minimum is 0. If a gallery has a lot of bondage but not a whole lot of anything else then that's the only tag it gets.

Photo - Technical and meaningless. Pretty much anything not drawn is a photo.

Its in image sets, so, well, wait, nvm, you're right.

Shibari - Is that her name?

Its a fetish visible in around half the images?
Bondage= Tie stuff down with just about anything,
Shibari=Make it art with ropes.

Outside - Too generic.

I disagree. It is generic, yes. But it helps find galleries with bondage+outside tags. Doesn't it? (Not to mix with "public" tho.)
Got another way to find the fetish you want to see, lets say outside, in open air? (Since if there is, I could use that)
I could search through all the bondage galleries, yes, but this is time consuming. I don't want to do that.
I wanted to find more galleries like this, but I could only find two. (I know it is getting phased out, but still, it makes a valid example.)
https://e-hentai.org/g/163629/bfc7f16342/ This, by combining shibari with outside. Its what I expected to get, and it I got. Though, I highly doubt that that would be the only similar gallery, I think its just that the other similar galleries are not well enough tagged. Using "bondage" I get just that, bondage. Not shibari, using "public" I get public, not outside. (I don't want populated areas) And yes, it has a huge impact to me whether it is inside, public, or outside.

Whenever someone posts a translation of a work already in the galleries there is no need to go through all of its images an additional time. That's just 1 example.

Manga/doujinshi/comics usually fits on one page, and how is this relevant to voting down tags? Or did I misunderstand you? And does an average user need to remove tags from a dublicate galleries so fast that he can't load 1-2 additional pages?

There are thousands upon thousands of older galleries that need going over. There is never a shortage of tagging work to be done.

And having a tag "tag this" to search those galleries with would make it just that much easier. Ofcourse, if you got another efficient method to find these, please let me know, I'm new here (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Plenty of galleries are fine with few/no tags.

Umm, why? No content? I don't get it. Because the content is rubbish? Because nobody most likely wants to find the gallery, because the content is garbage? Lets say, a shoe for someone could be a fetish for another.
How come having less tags is better than having more tags (within the content of the gallery)?
Is the tag list an index of contents, or a searching tool for the galleries?

If a gallery has a lot of bondage but not a whole lot of anything else then that's the only tag it gets.

Bondage is very generic and unspesific tag. It does little to describe what you can actually find inside the gallery. Well, tied up people, most likely, but is it just a gallery of nothing else than tied up people being boring? What action does it have inside? Are whips, chains, robes, gags, blindfolds, collars, nosehooks, analhooks, nipplechains, spreaderbars, ect. used? Does it also contain shibari? Does the character have hair? Since then you could specify the color. I like redheads. In most cases, atleast some of these are. Why not tag those with the gallery tagged as bondage? Someone is most likely looking for a bit more specific fetish than just bondage.

I guess the part I do not understand is, how does having more tags hurt the userbase? lets say a gallery has a tag "bath". Does it increase the load on the servers somehow? Does it make it harder to find something? I just don't seem to understand. Or "outside"? So galleries that get tagged "outside" start popping up on searches too much? Since I am new and all, has there been any insident with something happening when a gallery had alot of tags? Does it make finding galleries harder? Since I think only having one tag sure makes it difficult, and 0 near impossible.

This post has been edited by EroOu: Mar 25 2012, 00:10

Shibari=Make it art with ropes.

Tied up is tied up, being fancy about it changes nothing from a sexual perspective.

I disagree. It is generic, yes. But it helps find galleries with bondage+outside tags. Doesn't it? (Not to mix with "public" tho.)

How many people care? Again the impact of location is minimal, if she was inside would it really change anything?

Manga/doujinshi/comics usually fits on one page, and how is this relevant to voting down tags? Or did I misunderstand you?

Sorry, I thought you meant upvoting. Anyways there is already a bias against downvoting, I don't think we need any more.

And having a tag "tag this" to search those galleries with would make it just that much easier.

Again, who would put it there?

Umm, why? No content? I don't get it.

No (or not enough) taggable content, yes.

Because nobody most likely wants to find the gallery, because the content is garbage?

Sometimes yes actually. Galleries without any theme or focus are appropriately harder to find because they have little/nothing of note.

How come having less tags is better than having more tags (within the content of the gallery)?

That's not really the case but some tags have issues. Some are too broad and thus would have to be put on nearly every gallery (already happening with "big breasts"), some are too specific and seem unlikely to be a search term, etc. Also generally speaking overtagging is far worse than undertagging.

Is the tag list an index of contents, or a searching tool for the galleries?

The latter. People keep getting the misconception that tagging is the end-all-be-all means of making something findable. There are plenty of other factors to searching the galleries:
http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Gallery_Searching

Bondage is very generic and unspesific tag.

Seems to be fairly well understood and used around here.

What action does it have inside?

Maybe none (besides a person being tied up). That's kind of the point of that 1 tag.

Are whips, chains, robes, gags, blindfolds, collars, nosehooks, analhooks, nipplechains, spreaderbars, ect. used?

Whip - Separate tag
Robes - If it's a kimono it's a separate tag (assuming it's non-nude / kept on for sex), otherwise too generic a form of clothing
Gags - Separate tag
Nosehooks - Separate tag
Analhooks - I don't think we have a lot of these
Nipplechains - We do have a "piercing" tag for these
Spreaderbars - Rather pointless, you can get the same effect from just spreading the person out via the rope design or through some other fashion. It has little impact compared to the bondage itself.

Someone is most likely looking for a bit more specific fetish than just bondage.

How many people know what "shibari" is? How many will tag galleries with it accurately? How many will search for it?

How many people know what "shibari" is? How many will tag galleries with it accurately? How many will search for it?

I doooooooooooo~ (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

But I never search for it.

Tied up is tied up, being fancy about it changes nothing from a sexual perspective.
How many people care? Again the impact of location is minimal, if she was inside would it really change anything?
No (or not enough) taggable content, yes.
Sometimes yes actually. Galleries without any theme or focus are appropriately harder to find because they have little/nothing of note.
Maybe none (besides a person being tied up). That's kind of the point of that 1 tag.
Spreaderbars - Rather pointless, you can get the same effect from just spreading the person out via the rope design or through some other fashion. It has little impact compared to the bondage itself.
How many people know what "shibari" is? How many will tag galleries with it accurately? How many will search for it?

These seem to be just personal opinion to me. No offence. I think the community shouldn't be told what to think. It should think for itself.
Does the fetish need to be "widely known" to be taggable? How many people must like it to make it a taggable content? Why can't the smaller underground fetishlovers use the tags? This would mean that the gallery uploader needs to know everything about the gallery he is uploading to describe it well enought, for smaller fetishlovers to find said galleries. Then again, if there wasn't such a bias towards tags that others think are just plain odd, it would make it easier for these smaller circles without impacting the others overly much. Or how could it harm everyone?
And please consider this: If the gallery has no content, why did the uploader spend so much time downloading, ordering and uploading the said gallery?

That's not really the case but some tags have issues. Some are too broad and thus would have to be put on nearly every gallery (already happening with "big breasts"), some are too specific and seem unlikely to be a search term, etc. Also generally speaking overtagging is far worse than undertagging.

Well, its not like the gallery has to have _every_ tag imaginable for the said gallery. But why remove the tags that fit? Like if "outside" is major impact on the gallery, why ban the usage of it? And no, I don't want public outside, I want outside outside. And shibari? This is an adult japanese fanworks community, right? Do I need to explain more? A good portion, but not too many, galleries contain this. Why not tag it? (Or rather, give the option to.)
also, why is overtagging worse than undertagging?

Sorry, I thought you meant upvoting. Anyways there is already a bias against downvoting, I don't think we need any more.

I just don't feel its strong enough when an user who has been around for a while disagrees with a fresh uploader.

Again, who would put it there?

Anyone who happens to pass by, but can't figure the correct target group of the fetishes in play/the tags for the gallery. E.g. if you (I think you don't like bondage all that much?) happen to pass by a bondage gallery, you could tag it as "tag this" and someone else who specialises in bondage could go add some appropriate tags that help the bondage targetgroup find the content. Sounds beneficial to all, in my opinion. Not like a single person would know everything about every fetish. Nor should they.

The latter. People keep getting the misconception that tagging is the end-all-be-all means of making something findable. There are plenty of other factors to searching the galleries:
http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Gallery_Searching

yes, I see this as a problem. Maybe we should tell the people to make better descriptions? I see alot of galleries that do not describe the content, so it relies on the tags. And when there is no tags nor description, hard to find, isn't it?

Seems to be fairly well understood and used around here.

I didn't say it wasn't. I said it is generic. It may contain anything from a simple hands tied and something mild, to elegantly tied ropes, heavy restraints, ect. ect. I did post a long list earlier, repeating my self is not something I do not like doing.

Maybe none (besides a person being tied up). That's kind of the point of that 1 tag.

I'm saying thats rather impossible for larger galleries. Unless they are very boring galleries, like one character with a simple tie on hands in slightly different positions without blushing, standing straigth and doing really nothing. I would understand that as the only justification for just one tag. (or similar scenarios.)
Then again, the way the character is tied should start bringing more tags if nothing else applies, is it frogtie? Generally shibari? Were stocks or pillory in use? ect.

How many people know what "shibari" is? How many will tag galleries with it accurately? How many will search for it?

Most likely alot. If it gets tagged, why remove it?
There are countless of people just uploading galleries, and I alone got 300k hits in two days with 2 galleries. Those weren't because of tags, but because the gallery was way on top. So I guess there are people who liked those said galleries. They contained way much of shibari and other content only describable with tags that get removed.

Besides, if we force people who wish to downvote go through the trouble of visiting all the index pages of the gallery, they would be either long time users with alot of perks and many rows in one index page (less indexes for them to go through) or generally people who have some interest in the gallery itself, and therefore should know something about its content. And therefore should be able to determine if the tag really exists on the gallery, and not downvote the tag just because they do not know what it means/dont care for it and think nobody else cares either.
If I go through the trouble of looking for a good content, spend some time downloading it (200+ images can take some time, to do one by one.) then go and reorder it, and then go through the trouble of uploading it, you would think I know what it contains. Its not like I like uploading crap, and I doubt anyone else likes either. (Well, maybe scat fetishes.) So we can assume that everyone who uploads a gallery thinks the content is desirable. (Well, okey, I'm maybe ignoring the smaller galleries a bit here) so I can imagine nobody going through all that trouble just to upload blank files, they got to have some content in them.

Like, I don't go into softer galleries at all. I don't get whats so fancy about "schoolgirl" or "bunnygirl" but I get that someone else might like it. As well as weirder stuff, like foot fetish. So if it has a tag, someone probably liked that specified content, and alot of other people with same wavelenght will most likely like it too. Why untag it? I really dislike the idea that we should all follow a generic mold to fit our own, personal fetishes in.

(Modified version of the suggestion #1, taking constructive critisism into account:)
Now, if we want to eliminate smaller galleries doing garbage tags, how about, taking the suggestion about earlier of the preset amount of modpower ( I think Ichizon said "make it ten if lower than ten" or something.), we give the gallery uploader +1 modpower for tagging his own content for every 10 files uploaded in gallery. Capped at 30. That way, if the uploader goes through all the trouble to upload a huge gallery, we can assume he is atleast a bit afraid of it just going to the fjords and all being in vain. So, he most likely checks the rules and tos a bit. And after that, maybe will know enough to give tags that are relevant to the gallery and not complete carbage. And well, lets forget about giving boost to downvoting then.

Any thoughts on that?

This post has been edited by EroOu: Mar 25 2012, 02:48

I think the community shouldn't be told what to think. It should think for itself.

Take it from someone who cleans up messes, the community barely thinks at all. A large chunk of users never come to the forums, read the tag guidelines, or even read the ToS despite agreeing to it. You have way too much faith in the community.

Does the fetish need to be "widely known" to be taggable?

For the most part yes. It has to be at least easily understood and identified.

How many people must like it to make it a taggable content?

At least 2. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Why can't the smaller underground fetishlovers use the tags?

We've (or rather I've) let a lot of smaller fetishes become "official" tags over the last few months. You'll need to give examples of what tags you think are important.

This would mean that the gallery uploader needs to know everything about the gallery he is uploading to describe it well enought, for smaller fetishlovers to find said galleries.

#1 The uploader is most likely THE person who knows what the gallery contains

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

If the gallery has no content, why did the uploader spend so much time downloading, ordering and uploading the said gallery?

Content =/= tags.

Like if "outside" is major impact on the gallery

For the third time it has no impact, let alone a "major" one.

This is an adult japanese fanworks community, right?

Hentai site, we're removing all Asian Porn in the coming months.

Do I need to explain more?

There are plenty of Japanese/asian fetish tags that have been blacklisted.

A good portion, but not too many, galleries contain this.

Contain what?

why is overtagging worse than undertagging?

Requires more checking and mod power to fix if it's done poorly.

Anyone who happens to pass by, but can't figure the correct target group of the fetishes in play/the tags for the gallery.

They can post in the forums instead.

I think you don't like bondage all that much?

I'm pretty neutral on it. I don't dislike it.

someone else who specialises in bondage could go add some appropriate tags that help the bondage targetgroup find the content.

Specializes? Oh hell no. We make tags as idiot-proof as possible so that everyone can do it. Under no circumstances should a fetish tag require expertise.

Not like a single person would know everything about every fetish.

Vigilantes pretty much have to.

Maybe we should tell the people to make better descriptions?

I should really put something on the wiki for that...

I said it is generic.

It's also highly used, well understood, often searched for, and easy to identify.

(Continued in next post)

Then again, the way the character is tied should start bringing more tags if nothing else applies, is it frogtie?

"frogtie" - usage of 6

Were stocks or pillory in use? ect.

"stocks" - usage of 42
"pillory" - usage of 46

Most likely alot.

You'd be wrong.
To put things in perspective:
"bondage" - usage of 137,620.
"shibari" - usage of 251. And was grouped just today.

These numbers tell me a lot about more than a single user's personal feelings (no offense).

If it gets tagged, why remove it?

"only for people who have serious fucking issues" has a usage of 132. Something being used doesn't automatically render it valid or useful to the community.

If I go through the trouble of looking for a good content, spend some time downloading it (200+ images can take some time, to do one by one.) then go and reorder it, and then go through the trouble of uploading it, you would think I know what it contains.

I've done that and had no freaking clue what tags were needed after I was done uploading. We have tons of uploaders who just dump doujins fresh from Comiket without looking and thus the tagging regulars come to the rescue. Users can also dump their files in a .zip and forget about it, then upload it weeks later having completely forgotten what was in it. Never assume the uploader knows anything about their own uploads. You're projecting your own diligence on to the whole community, which sadly is not the reality.

Its not like I like uploading crap

Good! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

and I doubt anyone else likes either.

People will upload ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING since it gets them GP.

So we can assume that everyone who uploads a gallery thinks the content is desirable.

No, we most certainly cannot assume that.

I really dislike the idea that we should all follow a generic mold to fit our own, personal fetishes in.

The tagging community is NOT self-regulating despite your many assumptions. People blindly tag things up without checking, misspell, make up random new tags, vote things down even if they are valid, etc.

Every tag that exists is another job that vigilantes have to deal with and make sure it valid. Moderation keeps the system working and it has enough leeway for almost all fetishes but not the super-specific. Anything that requires too much expertise invites misuse or lack of usage.

Now, if we want to eliminate smaller galleries doing garbage tags

You mean the gallery or the tags?

we give the gallery uploader +1 modpower for tagging his own content for every 10 files uploaded in gallery. Capped at 30.

I already told you more images =/= more tags.

we can assume he is atleast a bit afraid of it just going to the fjords and all being in vain.

I don't think you know what the fjords are...

So, he most likely checks the rules and tos a bit.

You're an optimist. We have blatant RoE violations posted every single day.

I believe increasing power for the uploader is a good idea as well. I.e. if he has less than 10 mod power, increase it to 10. Giving a flat multiplier might be a bad idea though, as people can get high mod power without having any hand in tags.

10 makes the gallery searchable in the "good tag" range, easily downvotable by anyone if it's wrong, and the uploader can't really abuse it too much without getting detected.

I recall having less than 10 power being the reason I hardly bothered tagging my early galleries (felt pointless).

I agree, a 10 point minimum for an uploader seems like a better option then a mod power multiplier.