[X] My Assistant

Both fixed.

Added maximum proc chance/duration/damage to wiki.

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Equipment_Procs

Check if there are any errors.

This post has been edited by varst: Apr 14 2012, 08:19

aren't scythes a 25% max?

scythe should be 25% chance i believe

I think there are some with more then 25%, but they are no longer generated.

Anyone see the focus suffix on daggers/shortswords since mana conservation was added?

i haven't yet =\

Corrected scythe proc chance.

I think there are some with more then 25%, but they are no longer generated.

Anyone see the focus suffix on daggers/shortswords since mana conservation was added?

AFAIK from searching, nobody have seen them since 0.6.5.
Probably gone forever, for all good reasons. Need more time to confirm they're gone though.

it's definitely the max now though imo since danix's legend scythe is 25 only and i think esheep's magni scythe is 25 or less as well if i remember right

Was just wondering, cause dual wielding them could've made for some SUPER cheap spell casts

Rapier lists Bleeding Wound instead of Penetrated Armor in the table.

Can armor proficiency be earned if a monster misses you (not evaded)?

Yes. With 0% evade you can still earn armor proficiency when a monster misses.

Merci.

No longer up to date, everything got inverted.

Warning: Wall of text (like normal when I do tests) If you want a summary scroll the the bottom

Topic: Action Speed and Factors for Different Actions

Many things have changed since Sayo wrote some stuff on action speed and damage on his topic HV Secrets so I decided to do some tests on action speed after having a chat with Varst on the subject.

Formulas

Action Speed (AS) = 100 + AGI/3 [Note 1 and 2}
Base Action Time (BAT) = Max(100 , 500-AS) [Note 3]
Action Time (AT) = BAT * (X-Mod) * (Specific Action Mod) = BAT * (XM) * (SAM)

Some values for SAM that we know
Normal attack = 1.0
Defend = 1.0
Magic Missile = 1.1

X-Mod is advertised in its tooltip as a 25% reduction in the time it takes to do an action. and Tenboro can be quoted saying that X-anything makes that particular action 25% faster. (Forgive me, I don't know how to quote off of a closed topic). XM should then equal 0.75, however the math says otherwise.

Actual Value of XM = 1/1.1 or 0.9090 repeating

Numerical Example 1: Determining Value of XM
Observation Table
Non-Haste My attacks/FSM attacks
No Debuff: 22/51
Magnet: 5/6
Slowed: 23/18
Both: 3/2

Haste My attacks/FSM attacks
No Debuff: 24/29
Magnet: 8/5
Slowed: 22/9
Both: 20/7

My Stats:
P1(normal)
AS=244.9 (using value on character sheet)
BAT=255.1
AT=BAT*XM=?

P2(haste)
AS(Haste)=244.9*1.5=367.25
BAT(Haste)=132.65
AT(Haste)=BAT(Haste)*XM=?

Level 308 FSM:
M1(normal)
AS=100+927/3=409
BAT=500-409=91, which gets rounded up to 100
AT=100

M2(magnet)
AS(Magnet)=409*0.75=306.75
BAT(Magnet)=193.25
AT(Magnet)=193.25

M3(slow)
AS(Slow)=409*0.5=204.5
AT(Slow)=295.5

M4(both)
AS(Both)=409*0.5*0.75=153.375
AT(Both)=346.625

The table corresponds to Non-Haste being P1, and Haste being P2, and M1 being FSM with no debuffs, M2 with magnet, M3 with slow, and M4 with both.

P1 vs M1 is the first line of the non-haste table when FSM is not debuffed. The attack ratio is 22/51
AT(FSM)*FSM_Attacks/Player_Attacks=AT(Me)
100*51/22=231.8

AT(Me)=BAT(Me)*XM
231.8=255.1*XM
231.8/255.1=XM=.9086 which is close to 1/1.1 which is equal to 0.9090 repeating

Redoing My Stats:
P1(normal)
AS=244.9 (using value on character sheet)
BAT=255.1
AT=BAT*XM=231.91

P2(haste)
AS(H)=244.9*1.5=367.25
BAT(H)=132.65
AT(H)=BAT(H)*XM=120.59

Which then fits the rest of the table:
P1(normal) vs M1(norma)
22*231.91:51*100
5102.02:5100

P1(normal) vs M2(magnet)
5*231.91:6*193.25
1159.55:1159.5

P1(normal) v M3(slow)
23*231.91:18*295.5
5333.93:5319

(actual ratio is 79:62 which goes to 18320.89:18321, I just didn't go for long enough but it is still close enough)

P1(normal) v M4(both)
3*231.91:2*346.63
695.73:693.26

P2(haste) v M1(normal)
24*120.59:29*100
2894.16:2900

P2(haste) v M2(magnet)
8*120.59:5*193.25
964.72:966.25

P2(haste) v M3(slow)
22*120.59:9*295.5
2652.95:2659.5

P2(haste) v M4(both)
20*120.59:7*346.63
2411.8:2426.41
(actual ratio is 23:8 2773.57:2773.04)

Conclusion to Numerical Example 1:
X-Mod has an effect greatly different then advertised on the ability screen. 1/1.1 is a much smaller effect then 0.75. With X-Mod being 1/1.1 everything fits. (the one's that are a bit off is because of my having to recast a spell and then restart taking data)

Numerical Example 2: Quick Verification
This one will be shorter

Observation Table
Non-Haste My attacks/RL attacks
Normal: 17/28
Magnet: 1/1
Slowed: 40/29
Both: 11/7

Haste My attacks/RL attacks
Normal: 7/6
Magnet: 21/11
Slowed:37/14
Both: 3/1

Me vs 310 Real Life

Me
P1(normal)
AS=244.9 (using value on character sheet)
BAT=255.1
AT=BAT*XM=231.91

P2(haste)
AS(H)=244.9*1.5=367.25
BAT(H)=132.65
AT(H)=BAT(H)*XM=120.59

Level 310 RL:
M1(normal)
AS=100+778/3=359.33
BAT=500-359.33=140.67
AT=140.67

M2(magnet)
AT(magnet)=230.5

M3(slow)
AT(slow)=320.335

M4(both)
AT(both)=365.25

Notice how close P1(normal) vs M2(magnet)
231.91 for P1(normal)
and
230.5 for M2(magnet)

Also note how M4(both) is about 3x P2(haste)
120.59 for P2(haste)
and
365.25 for M4(both)
I am only going to to show these two, it shouldn't be too hard to run though the math yourself if you would want to.

P1(normal) vs M2(magnet)
1*231.91.1:1*230.5
231.91:230.5
(The ratio is about 164:165 which goes to a total time taken of 38033.24:38032.5, in other words I would have to do 164 attacks before I would get double hit by RL)

P2(haste) vs M4(both)
3*120.59:1*365.25
361.77:365.25
(The ratio is actually really close to 103:34 which goes to a total time taken of 12420.77:12418.5, which means I would get triple hits most of the time, but would eventually get a quadruple)

Conclusion: X-Mod has to be 1/1.1 if fighting style has no effect on attacking. The formulas work.

Numerical Example 3: Style, Calibration, Magic, and final verification of X-Mod
This final round of testing was to verify the following things:
That fighting styles, such as 2H vs Dual Wield, have no effect on attacking, ie the SAM is 1 for attacking regardless of style.
Magic Missile if its SAM is 1.1, and XM is 1/1.1, should cancel out to 1, so a players BAT is equal to AT when using Magic Missile. Thus MM can be used for calibration tests.
Defend's SAM is 1, so it could be used for calibration tests if it is not effected by X-Mod (it is effected by it...)

Me
P1(normal)
AS=246.4 (using value on character sheet)
BAT=253.6
AT=BAT*XM=230.55

P2(haste)
AS(H)=246.4*1.5=369.6
BAT(H)=130.4
AT(H)=BAT(H)*XM=118.55

P3 Magic Missile(normal)
AT=BAT(P1)=253.6

P4 Magic Missile(haste)
AT=BAT(P2)=130.4

P5 attacks(double haste)
AS(DH)=246.4*1.5*1.5=554.4 OR 246.4*(1+.5+.5)=492.8
BAT(DH)=max(500-either one,100)=100
AT(DH)=100/1.1=90.9090

Level 309 FSM
M1(normal)
AS=410.33
AT=100

M2(magnet)
AT(M)=192.25

M3(slow)
AT(S)=294.835

M4(both)
AT(B)=346.13

Style and Defend
Doing some quick math, P1*5 vs M2*6 goes to 1152.8:1153.5 so I did that as a calibration test between normal attacks and defend. However, after doing about 100 attacks vs 100 defends, FSM got 120 attacks back in both cases. If Defend was not affected by XM then FSM should have gotten about 132 attacks. This was just to verify once more that attacks work as the math says, and to see if defend is considered an "attack".

Next I did some MM testing.
P3(normal) vs M4(both)
15*253.6:11*346.13
3804:3807.43

P4(haste) vs M4(both)
8*130.4:3*346.13
1043.2:1038.39 (close enough, is actually 146:55, which would be very hard for me to reach with buff/debuff durations)

Looks like MM is still 1.1, while x-magic is 1/1.1 like x-attack

Double Hastage
Finally I did some tests with double haste to do a final verification on XM
P5(double haste) vs M1(normal)
11*90.9090...:10*100
1000:1000

If X-Attack was a modifier of 0.9, then I would get 10 attacks to 9, not 11 to 10.
If X-Attack was as advertised, a modifier of 0.75, I would get 4 attacks to 3

Conclusion and Summary
[Note 1]Action Speed is not capped or rounded
[Note 2]Action Speed is what haste, magnet, slow, and freezing limbs works off of
[Note 3]BAT should also have a min(x,500) in there, but there is no way to get your action speed be negative thus inducing this

Monster Skills have a SAM of 1, which is why they sometimes double tap us with their skills. Ouch!

Stun falling resets the monsters action counter to 0, which is why they always get a free attack once stun wears off,

Because of Action Speed not being capped, spells that slow down monsters become less and less effective as they get more agility. Magnet on a monster with an AS of 534 would bring its AS down to 400.5, which would still have its BAT be 100, which is the same it would have without magnet.

X-Action isn't as strong as advertised, but it does allow a player to be faster then monsters if both have capped BATs.

Changing BAT by increasing the 500-AS to Z-AS where Z is any value greater then 500 is good for the player when they are slower then the monster, but hurt them when they are faster, or if the monster is slowed, to be slower then the payer, by some method. This is because it increases the ratio of AT on both the numerator and denominator.

Special Thanks: Varst and dCherry

To be done eventually: SAMs of everything else

PS: can we get a small patch to fix tooltips? Please? Red/Indigo are still saying that they give damage even though its been FOREVER since they have been given crit instead of damage.

This post has been edited by skillchip: Feb 27 2013, 01:46

Yeah I agree. We probably have to ask T nicely for tooltip updates for the ability page (maybe?) and the auras

Ie, does purge affect condemn mana cost? I never really paid much attention but if you look at the abilities page...

Likewise, is the bewilder tooltip accurate? If so, it doesn't function like weaken (since the tooltip suggests only the duration is buffed from extra points)

@skillchip

Next time you can state the formula and summary, then provide the numerical data in appendix. It isn't that scientific, but it will look better. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

@dcherry

Once I've suggested to make a list so Tenb can correct tooltips accordingly, but nobody seems to bother too much (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

I put summary at end cause I expect most people to just scroll to the next post lol (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Someone just told me that they received multiple shards from a monster as a gift, do we have a known range for this?

I seriously doubt that. You could ask those monster hunters to verify though (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
The dialogue is indeed 'some shards', but we also have 'some clothes' etc, and I'm not sure if I'm getting more than 1.
Maybe I would just note how many shards/materials I have before sleep and see how it works out.
(sometimes people just forget they bought some materials from bazaar)

This post has been edited by varst: Apr 21 2012, 16:51

I've yet to received multiple shards from monster loot. If it does exist it must be pretty rare

Is Magic Missile affected by Elemental Proficiency?

Yes.
Tested between Ebony Staff (w/only elemental and depricating prof. bonus) and unarmed. Against a non-player monster(Blue Hedgehog) at L149(unarmed) and L151(staff) in the same battle mode & difficulty.
Elemental Proficiency was 138.8 unarmed, 164.1 with staff.
Base damage was 341.8 unarmed, 489.9 with staff.
No other changes between them.
Min/Max damage range increased by 53.64%&53.48% with the staff.
Without Proficiency bonus, damage should have increased by only 43.33%.
With Proficiency bonus, at (1 + Prof./200), damage should have increased by 54.03%.
~.5% loss assumed to be due to the monster's 2 level increase to magic mitigation.

Min/max damage values taken until values reached a 72/128 ratio.