[X] My Assistant

speaking of illegal uploads, this pic comes to mind

(IMG:[hostingc.hotchyx.com] http://hostingc.hotchyx.com/adult-image-hosting-06/7240no-up.jpg)

Illegal uploads are murdering our lovers

If you upload images illegally, you are betraying the manga culture.

If you want 2-d girls to survive, you must not do such a thing.

(From comic LO)

I've seen a couple that specifically warn against American uploaders too.

(IMG:[www.sendika.org] http://www.sendika.org/resimler/downloadcommiepic-2009-12-03.jpg)

Beware, comrades.

Anyway, if somebody has better DATA, share, but from [www.jetro.org] this ()2: "While sales of manga books have increased slightly, in recent years those of manga magazines have been stagnant." No indication of decline... and stagnant is still great compared to declines seen in markets for music and movie dvds, books or newspapers - although I'd love to see more recent numbers.

This post has been edited by Red_Piotrus: Oct 15 2011, 02:12

(IMG:[hostingc.hotchyx.com] http://hostingc.hotchyx.com/adult-image-hosting-06/6305332px-Jerkin.jpeg)

I hope the ol' furher doesn't mind a left handed salute then!

(IMG:[hostingc.hotchyx.com] http://hostingc.hotchyx.com/adult-image-hosting-06/6305332px-Jerkin.jpeg)

Sometimes, you just have to fap with the devil, right?

Godwin's law. It was bound to happen, I guess.

SHORT VERSION: NO to uploading RAWs as that is not the Cove of Translators mission. Uploading RAWs actually harms the mission because it harms the sources and may even discourage sequels to marginally selling titles.


ISSUE #1

There is no doubt that in the worldwide doujinshi community, the presence of RAW uploads decreases the number of sales to the various consignment retailers and the online digital retailers. If the sales are decreased enough to affect the flooring value, that circle might not be as welcome to get a consignment spot at the store in the future. RAWs also decreases sales to the circle at each of the conventions they attend.

So, the question is how much do you want to hurt the native sales of the japanese authors? If it is a major author such as Tony, it probably matters less as he seems to be mobbed all the time. But for a smaller circle it could hurt them or discourage making of a sequel doujinshi that you wanted. My option is to NOT UPLOAD RAWs as there is no obligation to upload them and it also doesn't further the Cove of Translators' mission to provide translations.


ISSUE #2

I've been using Baidu on occasion to take a look at the various mainland chinese sites. While many use their own asian DDL services to distribute RAWs, they do not seem to publish them in such a way that I see them with the same ease as they see RAWs uploaded by the western community. I also see an annoying number of chinese sites use e-hentai URL to the point that the western community is "subsidizing" the chinese sites filled with advertising banners with the actual material. In that way, they have the profitable "front end" with the advertising revenue and they then link to the galleries at e-hentai which they download with their automated tools. It seems unfair that they have tactics like that. Should this be rewarded? I say no.

I remember foreign sites doing the same to boxtorrents (now known as bakabt.me). They would have the front end, and then link to the boxtorrent torrent and use the open public boxtorrent tracker. Thus, the chinese sites collected the ad revenue, the user comments on their pages, and put all the load on the boxtorrent tracker. Should this pushy type of attitude be rewarded? I say no.

They benefit from our site (a source of RAWs for them), they use it as a hosting platform

It's not your site.

It's not your site.

True. But I don't hear them say "Hey! Stop that. Stop uploading those scanned doujins on our site. That's not nice!" And if it's such a big deal to upload RAWS, then who the hell are we to translate, edit, DECENSOR (as in redraw the artists works since it's not naughty enough)? I can (and will) blame some online retailers for making it such a pain in the ass to aquire some stuff.

Basically, if it wasn't for someone being nice enough to upload certain things, i'd never be able to enjoy since it's I don't have the means to obtain it (not a money issue, but being able to order it). It would be BS to say "Oh, if people could just simply just order whatever of course it'd decrease scanning", NO! It wouldn't of course, but at least it'd be a nice way to say "Hey Mr. Author, I enjoyed your doujin so much I just had to go and order a physical copy of your book just like I did for the newest (non-h) Bleach volume from Viz".

This post has been edited by Super Shanko: Dec 13 2011, 01:15

True. But I don't hear them say "Hey! Stop that. Stop uploading those scanned doujins on our site. That's not nice!" And if it's such a big deal to upload RAWS, then who the hell are we to translate, edit, DECENSOR (as in redraw the artists works since it's not naughty enough)? I can (and will) blame some online retailers for making it such a pain in the ass to aquire some stuff.

Basically, if it wasn't for someone being nice enough to upload certain things, i'd never be able to enjoy since it's I don't have the means to obtain it (not a money issue, but being able to order it). It would be BS to say "Oh, if people could just simply just order whatever of course it'd decrease scanning", NO! It wouldn't of course, but at least it'd be a nice way to say "Hey Mr. Author, I enjoyed your doujin so much I just had to go and order a physical copy of your book just like I did for the newest (non-h) Bleach volume from Viz".

well, technically it is a money issue in that shipping, buying from some obscure source, and/or forwarding to someone else will cost a shitload more than buying it directly, which is all the more reason importing is such a pain in the ass. Still, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Hell, on DLsite and MelonbooksDL, I've bought plenty of doujinshi I already saw before. I even picked up a physical copy of at least one old favorite which I had the fortune of spotting when I went to Comiket last year.

Nice point about decensoring, BTW. I myself sorta have some qualms with it since the censorship was placed there by the original artist (though I guess the same could be said about the text, but unless it's hand-written, it was likely placed there by the publisher). Besides which, I'm very accustomed to seeing it in the majority of my hentai (and it's nice to leave just a teensy bit to the imagination), but that's probably just me.

This post has been edited by Yamato-san: Dec 13 2011, 18:34

Yea, the high cost of shipping is a pain, but it'd still leave me to weigh the option of ordering it instead of flat out denying me altogether.

Another point: importing doujins with...certain themes is almost impossible for people in certain countries. I sure would rather kill myself than taking the risk of this stuff getting stuck at customs.

Man, I wish there was just a simple donation function on the authors' sites. I sure would use it. Also sad that they can't distribute their stuff themselves online via their own pages since they transfer the copyright to the publisher when they let it print through them.
Don't get why the publishers don't offer sites for online-distribution with international payment methods for this reason. DLsite did after all show that you can make even use of paypal with a more than simple workaround.

This post has been edited by hyarugu: Jan 6 2012, 17:17

Another point: importing doujins with...certain themes is almost impossible for people in certain countries. I sure would rather kill myself than taking the risk of this stuff getting stuck at customs.

Good points. I am mildly afraid even to transfer computer media... and I wonder when will US pass a new Patriot Act that will give them the right to scan your computer media at the checkpoint? Brrrr.

Man, I wish there was just a simple donation function on the authors' sites. I sure would use it.

I wish we had more (any?) Japanese users here who could comment on why this is not so. I heard that PayPal had some legal troubles in Japan. As usual, it appears legal issues are putting a wrench in the works of the Internet.

Also sad that they can't distribute their stuff themselves online via their own pages since they transfer the copyright to the publisher when they let it print through them.

They do? You mean all those digital releases have different copyright than printed version?

Don't get why the publishers don't offer sites for online-distribution with international payment methods for this reason. DLsite did after all show that you can make even use of paypal with a more than simple workaround.

I don't think that setting up a "donate to me" paypal account is that difficult. Or a paypal competition. But then, I have never tried it myself. Still, if I had anything worth asking for donations, I'd probably look at it.

It's strange that Japan, on so many levels so high tech and "our future", seems rather behind on the "share your art works online and make profit" side.

They do? You mean all those digital releases have different copyright than printed version?

Nono, the exact opposite. Sorry, for the confusion. The authors give all the distributional rights for their work to the publishers, when they sell it to them to get it published. That's why only to publisher could do an additional online distribution since the author himself loses the right to do so when selling the work to the publisher.
Why the publishers themselves though don't additionally try to find an efficient way of online distribution is totally beyond me. Normally a company wouldn't want to stick to digital releases to not fuel piracy but since the stuff already gets scanned and uploaded...well.
If they don't even try online stuff, the business with printed media doesn't seem to run as bad as many think I guess. Or do they print much less units now than they did some years before? Figures on stuff like this would be really interesting.
Sry, guess I didn't formulate it that well the first time.

Ah, I see. I know this is how it works in most of the business (author looses much copyright), but I thought dojins were mostly self-published, and the authors (circle) were their own publishers?

Ah, I see. I know this is how it works in most of the business (author looses much copyright), but I thought dojins were mostly self-published, and the authors (circle) were their own publishers?

Maybe some groups are too small to do it themself? Or they just choose not to have it downloadable like that? Actually, I remember DLsite telling m something about how they don't do digital stuff since they can make more at conventions (or something like that).

Ah, I see. I know this is how it works in most of the business (author looses much copyright), but I thought dojins were mostly self-published, and the authors (circle) were their own publishers?

Haha, oh man. That's on the other hand something I didn't think about, d'oh. Really feeling stupid right now since I also always forget, how big comiket is.
And yeah, you can see it in every smaller release, that the publisher is most of the time the author/circle when you look at the last page. That's why that article above may be not that useful for this the topic, since the doujinshi market is slightly different from the normal manga market in that there are no publishers outside of japan who publish professionally translated versions whose sales are hurt by the piracy and fan translations. That's imo the problem it focuses on and not the negative effect of piracy of raws on the sales in japan itself.
Well, still leaves the question, how many japanese users really use this site instead of buying the printed versions and what certain mangaka would think about a donation function or even some kind of partnership with a site like this, however a concept for something like that would have to look like. Looking at the download numbers for most releases here though, it sure would be a subject worth thinking about for them. Also would be interesting to hear, if sales at comiket and the like have really decreased significantly though the number of visitors has been growing steadily over the last few years.

I for one would be really sad if raws would disappear from this site and would stay exclusive to translation teams since I've got no interest in translated versions anymore, but I would totally understand this step if all this really hurt the sales in japan that much and thus kept the authors from earning enough money to pay their bills.

I for one would be really sad if raws would disappear from this site and would stay exclusive to translation teams since I've got no interest in translated versions anymore, but I would totally understand this step if all this really hurt the sales in japan that much and thus kept the authors from earning enough money to pay their bills.

i think thats highly unlikely, even lets say its have % 1 chance you know its internet there is always replacements,we need some sales numbers to see how good or bad sales and thats also unlikely to see,still japanese people all leaked doujins and mangas and sharing with their own p2p system,also i remember somewhere on forum here talked e-hentai have very high counter numbers from japan visitors.

i think thats highly unlikely, even lets say its have % 1 chance you know its internet there is always replacements,we need some sales numbers to see how good or bad sales and thats also unlikely to see,still japanese people all leaked doujins and mangas and sharing with their own p2p system,also i remember somewhere on forum here talked e-hentai have very high counter numbers from japan visitors.

You're of course right and kept in perspective it's the natural course of things. But still, the amiga era always comes to mind when thinking of something like this, since this is also a niche market. Just hope it won't take that direction.
What just keeps bothering me is that, like others have already stated, this whole situation gives the impression that not the whole portion of the target group (the portion which is willing to pay) is being reached by the current distributional methods and that there also seem to be no efforts to change this.
But okay, without almost any insider knowledge at all, which we'll as you mentioned probably never see, it's really impossible to come to a useful conclusion.