[X] My Assistant

Done. Now uploading to drop box. Will post link when it's finished.

[dl.dropbox.com] Here it is. Since this was before the policy change, I imagine it's fine to post this here. Feel free to add in any criticisms, as well as proofreading it. I have the unflattened files, so it is relatively easy for me to edit in any missing details.

Two comments:
* credits: can you add the note on sponsor (myself) and a note on the bounty system and the forums, with a link to our site?
* I see that the files are 987x1400. I am curious why did they got downsized compared to the org's 1435 x 2024? I was expecting the large size ones...

Other than that, looks great! I'll post it as soon as we have the above clarified/fixed.

Two comments:
* credits: can you add the note on sponsor (myself) and a note on the bounty system and the forums, with a link to our site?
* I see that the files are 987x1400. I am curious why did they got downsized compared to the org's 1435 x 2024? I was expecting the large size ones...

Other than that, looks great! I'll post it as soon as we have the above clarified/fixed.

It's merely the size of the raws that I got (didn't have the points for the raws on GE, and figured these would be fine). Seems pretty close to standard size, so I used them. As for the note: I'll add it in immediately and post the updates link here.


[dl.dropbox.com] Here it is. Added a note to visit the forums/site, and about the bounty system. Hope that was good.

This post has been edited by mindonair: Nov 9 2011, 21:25

As for my view on translations: I see no issues with J -> C -> E translations. Providing both were of good quality, then not a whole lot of info is lost. While not as good, it can still be enjoyable. So long as the general idea is given, and not a whole lot of info is lost, then it isn't an issue. That's all I have to say.

I think Bamboo did a good job of showing that that's not the case. The example he gave had many substantial inaccuracies, and he showed that they were caused by the ambiguity introduced from translating into an intermediate language. Of course, that's only one example. It's possible that there are JCE translations that are more accurate, but the potential to be completely wrong remains, and who's to say which one is good and which one isn't?

If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself, as always. Or not lose time and settle for less. But not doing the thing, and still losing time on complaining it's not perfect... why? Unless you enjoy this (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

That's a false dichotomy. Do the proponents of safety standards have to implement all of them themselves? This is something that involves more than one person. Bamboo couldn't "do it himself" if he wanted to.

Also, "perfect" might not be the best word here. There are perfect translations and accurate translations. The former is something to aspire to that can't be obtained, but the latter is something that you expect and can definitely be obtained.

I don't think this is a productive argument. These people are translating doujins/manga that no one else was going to anyway. Sure, it may not be completely correct, but the same can be said of many JP translations I'm sure. The potential for information loss is present on both sides (mostly due to experience and the like), only it is higher on the JP-CN-ENG side. Should that stop people from trying to translate? I don't think so.


This argument would be more credible if it were for something like Medaka Box, which has a ton of dialogue. But, in this case, it's for Hentai. Not particularly the most verbose of genres, so I'd say that any small amount of information that may be lost is acceptable.

Again, my opinion.

I don't think this is a productive argument. These people are translating doujins/manga that no one else was going to anyway. Sure, it may not be completely correct, but the same can be said of many JP translations I'm sure. The potential for information loss is present on both sides (mostly due to experience and the like), only it is higher on the JP-CN-ENG side. Should that stop people from trying to translate? I don't think so.
This argument would be more credible if it were for something like Medaka Box, which has a ton of dialogue. But, in this case, it's for Hentai. Not particularly the most verbose of genres, so I'd say that any small amount of information that may be lost is acceptable.

Again, my opinion.

And thus, we've reached the 'It's just porn' argument.

Also, on the topic of 80% correctness...I've seen rewrites that get it 80% correct. You can pretty much get 80% of the story by guessing what's going while looking at the pictures.

And thus, we've reached the 'It's just porn' argument.

Also, on the topic of 80% correctness...I've seen rewrites that get it 80% correct. You can pretty much get 80% of the story by guessing what's going while looking at the pictures.

More along the lines of "Hentai isn't quite as wordy" than it is "It's just porn".

That's a false dichotomy. Do the proponents of safety standards have to implement all of them themselves? This is something that involves more than one person. Bamboo couldn't "do it himself" if he wanted to.

People don't like being told what to do by someone who's not doing anything about it themselves. It reeks of hypocrisy for one thing. For another, if you're not doing anything, why should I? You need to either be changing the state of affairs yourself, or effecting such change through others. Otherwise your words are as good as empty; at least, certainly to those who need to be convinced.

Safety propenents can lobby/vote for safety measures, sell (or buy!) safety devices, donate to safety research/efforts...and I'm sure that's an incomplete list. They don't have to do it all themselves, but it's not so hard to contribute, at the very least.

What are you doing?

Just about the only thing there is to do concerning this JCE issue right now is to chip away at it directly. OR you could try to gather like-minded people to work towards that goal. There's two good options off the top of my head. But if all you're going to do is rant whenever the subject comes up, there's little incentive for anyone to heed what you have to say.

More along the lines of "Hentai isn't quite as wordy" than it is "It's just porn".

Hentai can be VERY wordy. Try telling anyone translating...for example, Algolagnia...that hentai isn't wordy. The fact that terms and slang not in regular use often show up in hentai means it can become very difficult to translate, comparatively.

Hentai can be VERY wordy. Try telling anyone translating...for example, Algolagnia...that hentai isn't wordy. The fact that terms and slang not in regular use often show up in hentai means it can become very difficult to translate, comparatively.

Typically speaking, it isn't. I know there are exceptions.

Hentai can be VERY wordy. Try telling anyone translating...for example, Algolagnia...that hentai isn't wordy. The fact that terms and slang not in regular use often show up in hentai means it can become very difficult to translate, comparatively.

"Can be".

Typically speaking, it isn't. I know there are exceptions.

QFT. Generalizing, hentai is easy, non-h manga is harder.

I don't think this is a productive argument. These people are translating doujins/manga that no one else was going to anyway. Sure, it may not be completely correct, but the same can be said of many JP translations I'm sure. The potential for information loss is present on both sides (mostly due to experience and the like), only it is higher on the JP-CN-ENG side. Should that stop people from trying to translate? I don't think so.
This argument would be more credible if it were for something like Medaka Box, which has a ton of dialogue. But, in this case, it's for Hentai. Not particularly the most verbose of genres, so I'd say that any small amount of information that may be lost is acceptable.

Again, my opinion.

This is how I see it. A one to one translation is impossible. There will always be points where the source language and target language converge in meaning, and points where they don't. It's the translator's job to determine what is key and to convey that as best as possible in the target language. Sometimes the translator fails to do that, but in that case it's a bad translation. For a secondary translation, the translator has to do the same thing, figure out what's key and translate that. But here's the catch, by translating into the second language additional meaning and possible meaning is added that wasn't in the original. Ideally, it should still be clear what the key idea is, and the translator should be able to translate that to the third language, but in practice, as Bamboo showed, it gets a lot more confusing, and the translator might not be able to tell what's actually being said or what's important.

Anyway, I think Bamboo did a good job showing specific examples of the problems involved, and you should read his blog post if you haven't. He's really in a good position to point stuff like that out since he knows both Japanese and Chinese.

As for the point about how JE translations can be bad, sure, but that's because the translator did a bad job, while JCE translations are bad because of the method of translation. And even though there's potential for error in both, scale is also important. There's a big difference between 10 mistakes and 100 mistakes.

Finally, if something isn't very verbose, doesn't that mean that each individual error is that much more significant?

People don't like being told what to do by someone who's not doing anything about it themselves. It reeks of hypocrisy for one thing. For another, if you're not doing anything, why should I? You need to either be changing the state of affairs yourself, or effecting such change through others. Otherwise your words are as good as empty; at least, certainly to those who need to be convinced.

Safety propenents can lobby/vote for safety measures, sell (or buy!) safety devices, donate to safety research/efforts...and I'm sure that's an incomplete list. They don't have to do it all themselves, but it's not so hard to contribute, at the very least.

What are you doing?

Just about the only thing there is to do concerning this JCE issue right now is to chip away at it directly. OR you could try to gather like-minded people to work towards that goal. There's two good options off the top of my head. But if all you're going to do is rant whenever the subject comes up, there's little incentive for anyone to heed what you have to say.

I think you're missing the point. Bamboo didn't make the JCE translations. He's not responsible for things that other people have done. How can he be a hypocrite if he's not making or supporting JCE translations? To me it sounds like he's doing exactly what he prescribes.

The most reasonable course of action, imo, is what he has done--try to convince the people who are responsible that he thinks what they're doing is detrimental and that they should stop. Furthermore, your suggested initiative, translate things that have been translated into Chinese, is wildly impractical and unlikely to have any great effect.

What am I doing? I've stated my position. I don't care. I don't think I'm responsible for cleaning up another person's mess. I'll translate what I want to translate and contently ignore any JCE translations.

That said, some of the translations I'm working on have been translated into Chinese. So I guess you could say I am active in stopping JCE translations, which would invalidate your entire argument, wouldn't it?

It's merely the size of the raws that I got (didn't have the points for the raws on GE, and figured these would be fine). Seems pretty close to standard size, so I used them. As for the note: I'll add it in immediately and post the updates link here.
[dl.dropbox.com] Here it is. Added a note to visit the forums/site, and about the bounty system. Hope that was good.

I see. I forget those things cost... in the future, please don't hesitate to ask me for credits for downloads of RAWs, to an established user like myself it is penny change. Or, consider investing few hours into honoverse, it can became a decent income flow for such purposes. I agree this res is good enough, but as was mentioned here, if we can aim for better, we should.

Would it take you much effort to reedit the text into a large size version? I think that bigger is usually better (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Released (v1?): https://e-hentai.org/g/431278/a89babd8aa/

This post has been edited by Red_Piotrus: Nov 10 2011, 01:19

I see. I forget those things cost... in the future, please don't hesitate to ask me for credits for downloads of RAWs, to an established user like myself it is penny change. Or, consider investing few hours into honoverse, it can became a decent income flow for such purposes. I agree this res is good enough, but as was mentioned here, if we can aim for better, we should.

Would it take you much effort to reedit the text into a large size version? I think that bigger is usually better (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Released (v1?): https://e-hentai.org/g/431278/a89babd8aa/

It would take quite a bit more effort, I'd imagine. The bigger it is, the more scenes I'd have to clone/heal/redraw. I'm not trying to shoot it down or anything, but I'm sure you know how it would feel to finish a project that was quite difficult to you, only for you to have to do it again.

To elaborate: It wouldn't be so bad if the "textures" weren't so detailed. Take the Yoma, for example. It's a pain to clone/heal the areas where I have to insert thoughts over his body. If I make one mistake, then it becomes plainly obvious where editing took place. Same with some background pieces. Now, if the scenes were enlarged, then I'd have to do more work to hide my editing. If I was to attempt to re-edit it, then it would take quite a while.

Personally, I'd just prefer to move on to another project.

This is how I see it. A one to one translation is impossible. There will always be points where the source language and target language converge in meaning, and points where they don't. It's the translator's job to determine what is key and to convey that as best as possible in the target language. Sometimes the translator fails to do that, but in that case it's a bad translation. For a secondary translation, the translator has to do the same thing, figure out what's key and translate that. But here's the catch, by translating into the second language additional meaning and possible meaning is added that wasn't in the original. Ideally, it should still be clear what the key idea is, and the translator should be able to translate that to the third language, but in practice, as Bamboo showed, it gets a lot more confusing, and the translator might not be able to tell what's actually being said or what's important.

Anyway, I think Bamboo did a good job showing specific examples of the problems involved, and you should read his blog post if you haven't. He's really in a good position to point stuff like that out since he knows both Japanese and Chinese.

As for the point about how JE translations can be bad, sure, but that's because the translator did a bad job, while JCE translations are bad because of the method of translation. And even though there's potential for error in both, scale is also important. There's a big difference between 10 mistakes and 100 mistakes.

Finally, if something isn't very verbose, doesn't that mean that each individual error is that much more significant?
I think you're missing the point. Bamboo didn't make the JCE translations. He's not responsible for things that other people have done. How can he be a hypocrite if he's not making or supporting JCE translations? To me it sounds like he's doing exactly what he prescribes.

The most reasonable course of action, imo, is what he has done--try to convince the people who are responsible that he thinks what they're doing is detrimental and that they should stop. Furthermore, your suggested initiative, translate things that have been translated into Chinese, is wildly impractical and unlikely to have any great effect.

What am I doing? I've stated my position. I don't care. I don't think I'm responsible for cleaning up another person's mess. I'll translate what I want to translate and contently ignore any JCE translations.

That said, some of the translations I'm working on have been translated into Chinese. So I guess you could say I am active in stopping JCE translations, which would invalidate your entire argument, wouldn't it?

Except that, in most cases, the dialogue is quite simple. Not many details to skip out on, really. Most doujins do not have complex dialogue, really. In these cases, the details one would miss out on are insignificant. If the doujin is actually quite wordy, then I'm more for pure J-E translations. But, when considering most works people translate, I'd say that JCE translations get the job done just fine.

Hell, I'm a freaking grammar nazi and I can live with these translations. I know exactly what is being said, even if some tiny details are gone. I've seen JE and JCE in side by side comparisons, and I can safely say that the differences mean little. Again, so long as both the Chinese and English translators are good, then it doesn't really matter too much. And, to clarify, I am NOT for JCE translations if the doujin/manga is rife with complex dialogue.

This post has been edited by mindonair: Nov 10 2011, 01:51

I think you're missing the point. Bamboo didn't make the JCE translations. He's not responsible for things that other people have done. How can he be a hypocrite if he's not making or supporting JCE translations? To me it sounds like he's doing exactly what he prescribes.

I said it reeks of hypocrisy, not that it necessarily is. The bigger problem is that he's not helping.

The most reasonable course of action, imo, is what he has done--try to convince the people who are responsible that he thinks what they're doing is detrimental and that they should stop. Furthermore, your suggested initiative, translate things that have been translated into Chinese, is wildly impractical and unlikely to have any great effect.

Preventive measures work because they can be enforced. You're never going to accomplish that on the Internet; look at Red! You can try to convince everyone in the world that they shouldn't make JCE translations, but I'll bet you'll have plenty of holdouts. If you can't stop them, then the only solution is to make sure they don't have any work.

If you can't enforce your "solution", then it's no solution. What are you going to do about the people you fail to convince? So long as, for instance, Red holds out, your "solution" is guaranteed to be a failure.

The solution of translating away the CE translators' potential work, however, only requires that you find people of like mind; with enough of you, you'll start to make real progress. However "impractical" it may seem, it still beats guaranteed failure.

That said, some of the translations I'm working on have been translated into Chinese. So I guess you could say I am active in stopping JCE translations, which would invalidate your entire argument, wouldn't it?

If an average person buys a smoke alarm, does that necessarily make him (or her) a proponent of safety standards?

If you have to guess, you're probably off target. =P

Personally, I'd just prefer to move on to another project.

Fair enough. We can leave it for a time you have nothing else to do and I can throw few hath or such for reediting it eventually.

Hell, I'm a freaking grammar nazi

Hey, all of you, I can use a grammar nazi or two for extra proofreading in the just completed YUA translation (check the other JCE thread). So how about less flaming and more constructive criticism (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And it is the "official" Chinese release (as far as those things go). Oh, and an editor will be needed, too, how would you like to take this one on, mind? It is long, but it's not like we cannot wait a while for a job well done... and the bounty is accordingly higher.

This post has been edited by Red_Piotrus: Nov 10 2011, 03:35

Fair enough. We can leave it for a time you have nothing else to do and I can throw few hath or such for reediting it eventually.
Hey, all of you, I can use a grammar nazi or two for extra proofreading in the just completed YUA translation (check the other JCE thread). So how about less flaming and more constructive criticism (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And it is the "official" Chinese release (as far as those things go). Oh, and an editor will be needed, too, how would you like to take this one on, mind? It is long, but it's not like we cannot wait a while for a job well done... and the bounty is accordingly higher.

Yes, perhaps another time. I am certainly in no mood to do all that editing again. I'd rather just resize the pages whenever I get the chance.

As for the editing request.
It's REALLY long. I'm not sure if I can edit that. I'll take another look at it some time later. 150 pages just seems like quite the commitment, so I'll have to get back to you on that. I might be able to proofread, if you need someone to do so.

This post has been edited by mindonair: Nov 10 2011, 03:53

As for the editing request.
It's REALLY long. I'm not sure if I can edit that. I'll take another look at it some time later. 150 pages just seems like quite the commitment, so I'll have to get back to you on that. I might be able to proofread, if you need someone to do so.

As noted in the discussion there, I am also willing to split the bounty between multiple editors.

As noted in the discussion there, I am also willing to split the bounty between multiple editors.

I can contribute a few pages worth of editing, but contact me once everyone knows what they are doing. I'm not really in this for the bounties or anything. Just doing it to increase my skills at this.

Preventive measures work because they can be enforced. You're never going to accomplish that on the Internet; look at Red! You can try to convince everyone in the world that they shouldn't make JCE translations, but I'll bet you'll have plenty of holdouts. If you can't stop them, then the only solution is to make sure they don't have any work.

Rapists will always exist, so the solution is clearly to act first and rape everyone more tenderly than the real rapists would. Am I right? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by Death Panda: Nov 10 2011, 05:49

Rapists will always exist, so the solution is clearly to act first and rape everyone more tenderly than the real rapists would. Am I right? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You're suggesting that JCE translation is *bad* rape, and JE translation is *tender* rape...i.e., both bad. But that doesn't follow for me. If anything, the JCE translations are bad, and the JE translations are good - or, at the very least, if not ideal, certainly not a bad thing.

Edit: Or I jumped to a bit too quick a conclusion. I think I see what you were really trying to do there. In any case, there are more possible solutions for potential rape victims (self-defense measures, off the top of my head) than there are for translated doujin in the wild on the internet.

This post has been edited by PeopleDon'tDanceNoMore: Nov 10 2011, 06:12