[X] My Assistant

I think the ability point put into barrier has gone like the second wind.

This post has been edited by Ratio: Sep 24 2011, 19:12

Spirit Shield won't protect you from 9 nasty monsters all critting you at once. That's usually how I lose my grindfests.

Anyway, why settle for one safety net when you can have 2?

I think the ability point put into barrier has gone like the second wind.

Tenboro said that you need to reset them.

I only use Shield, Regen and Cure in the Item World. Protection's 4 additional MP cost makes it even more difficult for me to get through Item World.

I certainly think that having the Barrier effect is nice but the additional cost forces me run out of MP that much sooner. =(

I thought Absorb was for anything that costs a monster mana or spirit...

Didn't trigger for me once, when I was testing it out, despite that it should've had a 85% chance, and I got hit with lots of skill attacks. It always ran out from the duration.

Spirit Shield won't protect you from 9 nasty monsters all critting you at once. That's usually how I lose my grindfests.

Anyway, why settle for one safety net when you can have 2?

True.
Which one fires first, if you have both up?
If you have 80% life left and gets hit by a really heavy hit, does the spirit shield tank it and lower your HP to 55% and take off some of your spirit points, or does spark of life activate and take half your spirit and leave you with 30% life?

I only use Shield, Regen and Cure in the Item World. Protection's 4 additional MP cost makes it even more difficult for me to get through Item World.

I certainly think that having the Barrier effect is nice but the additional cost forces me run out of MP that much sooner. =(

Try using haste. Faster attacks means less damage taken and less mana spent on cure and regen.

This post has been edited by Randommember: Sep 24 2011, 19:33

Spirit Shield always activates first, provided you have enough SPs.
It would be kinda useless if it didn't.

I think the ability point put into barrier has gone like the second wind.

You get the AP back the next time you reset it.

I'm not fond of having to reset AP to get back the point, especially since this patch does nothing to make shield (or barrier) a useful thing. Monster skills/spells still do more damage than can be blocked. The only way I can finish an arena on anything above Hard is by carrying a spirit potion for when Spark has saved me twice and my spirit is too low for another round. At hard, I can usualy soul harvest enough to get by without the pot. Maybe that is the reason for not balancing defenses against the increased attacks... force people to actualy use spirit pots?
Since I can't do higher levels, increasing loot quality is another meh. Maybe I will see some benefit from this eventually.
I am disappointed that healing and defending weren't buffed at all with this update. I didn't bother to join in the whining about 0.6.1 since I assumed the problem and solution were so obvious.
Oh, and I too don't see the point in Absorb when no custom mobs have spells. Legendaries and Bosses, i suppose. I don't know if I am eager for customs to get spells so I can make my humanoid effective, or dread it because everyone else's are going to also.

About haste... I found that the mana saved from healing was spent recasting Shield and Regen since my turns go faster. That was when I was using a long sweord though... Now that I am clearing levels in 2 turns with magic, it might be a better deal.

This post has been edited by drtylyssa: Sep 24 2011, 19:42

Try using haste. Faster attacks means less damage taken and less mana spent on cure and regen.

If I barely have enough MP to allocate between Protection, Regen and Cure, it is absolutely silly to add another spell (Haste) into the mix.

FYI, I'm not a mage. I don't have that much MP to waste.

Didn't trigger for me once, when I was testing it out, despite that it should've had a 85% chance, and I got hit with lots of skill attacks. It always ran out from the duration.

It only has a 75% chance to trigger at max AP and does not work on crits.

The best part about this update is

HV

not

hanging

on

every

pageload

Can you give us some numbers on these new bonuses? Also how does it relate to this:

Does it mean that you further increased IWBTH's loot bonus after the increase from 0.6.1 or is the bonus from the last patch not working and this is for fixing it?

Whatever it is, I still haven't seen anything.

Wow... I didn't notice the speed improvement until I went to the equipment page. I think my computer is the speed limiter now, so that is nice.

Me too. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Me too. and there is another spell gone....but I dont know what that is.

With this speed HV is suddenly much more fun (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You get the AP back the next time you reset it.

I had 7 AP before the latest update. Still had 7 AP after the update. I reset my ability points and picked all the same stuff I had before. I still have 7 AP. This didn't seem to work...

This post has been edited by aeridus: Sep 24 2011, 21:14

Still means that lifespark is a poor mans spirit shield.

It would be ridiculous to got spirit shield at, lets say, tier6. Hi-lev player is supposed have adventages.

Also, why do you want absorb for IA? Does that spell even do anything?
The times I have tested it, it has never absorbed a spell. As far as I can tell, that is because almost all skills used by monsters are just skills, and not spells, and therefore don't trigger absorb.

Normal Absorb affects only 75% magical attacks that are non-crits. Mana got from absorbing not helps at all because absorbtion cancels proc, and you need recast it again. Also, second magical attack in same turn and you are dead anyway. I have never heard about someone using Absorb because this spell is not reliable.
That's problem to fix - spell as castable sucks.
If we would put Absorb in IA spell would:
-absorb unlimited number of spell attacks in one turn
-as unkeep is per turn, if magical attacks hit you often enough, you would regain more mana than unkeep takes.
It still is unreliable because it have only 75% chance to trigger but you are not burdened to death with mama cost.
Also, as heavy armor not have resist chances, that woud be technicaly buff for heavy. Block from shield armors gives with natural evade same avoidance as evade from light but inferverence kills healing attempts.

The proper thing would be to make Protection into a 5 AP spell, doubling it's duration and increasing the mana efficiency of it in exchange for AP points. While of course keeping the same base duration.

Protection suffers anyway same problem like barrier and shield. At low levels you have shitty gear so it will give shitty profit. At high leves you have better spells so...

And for that same reason, make absorption into a 1 AP spell, with the max absorption chance from the start and doubled or perhaps tripled base duration.
That is, if it even works at all. If it doesn't work then it doesn't matter how cheap it is.

As castalbe spell it shall have 100% chance to trigger and "can't absorb crits" should be changed to "crits hit you, but only for non-crit damage"

I thought Absorb was for anything that costs a monster mana or spirit...

Mana, yes. Spirit - only magical spirit attacks.

If I barely have enough MP to allocate between Protection, Regen and Cure, it is absolutely silly to add another spell (Haste) into the mix.

FYI, I'm not a mage. I don't have that much MP to waste.

Haste + Mace = profit.

I'm not fond of having to reset AP to get back the point, especially since this patch does nothing to make shield (or barrier) a useful thing.

If you had a point into it already, and considered it to be worthless, then you aren't really "missing" a point, since what was taken away was something you didn't use anwyays.
So for you, nothing has changed, you have one point locked up into something you can't/won't use.

It's a bit worse if it is true for those that claim they haven't gotten a point returned to them after resetting.

It only has a 75% chance to trigger at max AP and does not work on crits.

Still, it means that if you get hit by 10 special attacks, even counting in crits and a 75% chance, it should have triggered at least once.
Oh, and I tried it for far more than 10 special attacks, that was just an example.
But still, from non-boss mobs, it never triggered, not once.

It would be ridiculous to got spirit shield at, lets say, tier6. Hi-lev player is supposed have adventages.

Advantages yes, but with the changes to damage dealt and received in the last patch, spark of life or spirit shield becomes a necessity if you wanna do an arena at anything harder than normal, due to the risk of being one-shotted.

It has changed from being a nice perk to have against gods and bosses to be something that you need in order to play at the harder difficulty levels.

Is that really an advantage that should be reserved for high-lvl players? Only they can play at harder difficulties?

Normal Absorb affects only 75% magical attacks that are non-crits. Mana got from absorbing not helps at all because absorbtion cancels proc, and you need recast it again. Also, second magical attack in same turn and you are dead anyway. I have never heard about someone using Absorb because this spell is not reliable.
That's problem to fix - spell as castable sucks.
If we would put Absorb in IA spell would:
-absorb unlimited number of spell attacks in one turn
-as unkeep is per turn, if magical attacks hit you often enough, you would regain more mana than unkeep takes.
It still is unreliable because it have only 75% chance to trigger but you are not burdened to death with mama cost.
Also, as heavy armor not have resist chances, that woud be technicaly buff for heavy. Block from shield armors gives with natural evade same avoidance as evade from light but inferverence kills healing attempts.

But that means making some rather big changes to the spell itself. Which is something I suggested, except that my changes were a bit different from yours.

Protection suffers anyway same problem like barrier and shield. At low levels you have shitty gear so it will give shitty profit. At high leves you have better spells so...

Better spells?
You have other spells, which give other bonuses and for that reason might be more cost-effective to use, but you do not have better spells as in having spells that make protection redundant.
So what is needed is what I am suggesting, making it a 5 AP spells with the same base duration, with the result that duration is doubled (5 AP compared to 1 AP) to what it is now, for the same costing, meaning that mana cost per turn is effectively halved.

At low levels it will be good for the simple reason that you don't really have much else to spend your mana on as a melee, and higher cost-efficiency will make it good for higher levels.

As castalbe spell it shall have 100% chance to trigger and "can't absorb crits" should be changed to "crits hit you, but only for non-crit damage"

#1 priority is to make it actually work and absorb special attacks.
Without that, other changes becomes rather useless.
And I would prefer to see longer duration, and that crits go through, rather than have a guaranteed save from big hits.
That's what spirit shield/spark of life is for.

Mana, yes. Spirit - only magical spirit attacks.

So only magical spirit attacks?
Which from a quick look at the bestiary means spirit attack from amphibious sperm whale and mutant peacock. None of the player created monsters and none of the minibosses, 1 of 4 bosses, 2 of 4 legendaries, none of the trio and the tree, possibly one of the dragons, and all of the gods.
And that's for their spirit attacks, not their special attacks.
So essentially, it is only marginally useful in the ring of blood, saving spirit points from not using spark of life/spirit shield for the odd spirit attack, but does nothing against their special attacks?
I'd suggest using silence instead, not only cheaper in mana, but also stops them from using special attacks.

If I barely have enough MP to allocate between Protection, Regen and Cure, it is absolutely silly to add another spell (Haste) into the mix.

FYI, I'm not a mage. I don't have that much MP to waste.

I'm not a mage either, and my point wasn't that you should add another spell, but that you should try replacing protection with haste.
Haste, with 5 AP into it, costs less mana per turn than protection, altho a little bit more than what shield used to cost.

The thing is, with haste, you can think of it as slowing down your enemies. Meaning they get to do less attacks against you.
So to simplify things, if you have 3 monsters against you, instead of them making 1 attack each every turn, and protection decreases their damage by a little bit, instead haste makes it so that they lose every third turn because of your faster action speed.
Or, for every turn that you do, only 2 of the 3 monsters will hit you. Effectively decreasing the damage you take far better than protection does. And with them losing every third turn, that means their mana and spirit regens slower compared to before, so they use less special attacks (about comparable to the number of attacks that they do, which is cut down to 2/3).

Overly simplified, but gives you an idea about how haste works in decreasing damage to you.
Try it.
Go through a couple of arenas with haste instead or protection and judge for yourself.

I've completely switched over from shield to haste, and I don't have mana enough to run both either.

Just want to point out that when I put the points into shield and barrier, they WERE useful. We seem to agree that the attack vs defense balance is off, and that was the point I was making. And as you point out, spark (or sprit shield, which I don't have yet) is needed for anything above normal.

I don't know if this is a bug in the new patch, but I've noticed Mana gems are not restoring 50% of the mana listed, rather they seem to be refilling 50% of the base mana before the level 3% bonuses are applied.