[X] My Assistant

Monster Powerlevels.
You could have gotten Higher PL mobs when testing without EXP Tanks (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Like i said before, at my level the total exp i gained was always 1-100 exp within each other, meaning averaging that though 15-16 creaures means it could barely mess up the average per creature. Atleast not enough to make up for the 25% drop it was supposed to show.

Like i said before, at my level the total exp i gained was always 1-100 exp within each other, meaning averaging that though 15-16 creaures means it could barely mess up the average per creature. Atleast not enough to make up for the 25% drop it was supposed to show.

It does mess up the results enough. Use the method mentioned above.

So you are saying the average that should have went from a 37 to a 28 average still averaged out to 38.5 instead due to pl level alone? You really believe I'm that lucky, to have no high pl the first time through and then really high level pl the second time though enough balance out the 25% loss.

Guess there is really no winning with you since its players vs tenboro.

Btw if it was only due to high pl then why have I never gotten close to that 28 average or that 25% drop? You saying that I've never gotten low pl monster ever since I deleted all my ability points?

Another Edit!!!!
I realized I had 7 post today, 1 for the 10% bonus for when I did the test and 6 for the near 54% the abilities used to grant me. So 70%+32%+21%=123% only 6% above from when I had points. Did the same test and got averages of 58, 53, 54, 52, 51, 55 etc eventually averaging to about 55.5.Now how come the post count 60% boosted my average up, but the ability points of 54% did not? Btw im the same level as before too.

This post has been edited by Orange Crusher: Aug 21 2011, 11:05

But your math is wrong if you exclude monster power levels (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Didn't want to double post so i was editing, read my last post edit for even more proof ability doesn't work.

Monster Power-Level is pretty important, even if you take it as % and not total EXP.

If I fight 3 customs on IWTBH, normal itemworld, I get around 2800-3800 exp, ~3500 on avg, without any posts. (I think)

It's not about likelihood, but it IS possible that luck can offset 25%. (25% from 2800 is 700 -> 3500. The exp-range is actually bigger)

Now of course it's IWTBH and stuff, but yeah, you kinda need to address power levels. It's not that important for normal monsters, but customs give very different amounts of exp.


It however sounds to me, that something IS broken. There is simply far too much "it doesn't work" going on, for it to actually work. (Especially if 50points = 150% don't give much of a difference when fighting a boss..)

Oh yeah, and about "when fighting more monster = less exp/monster", that's because customs give on average more exp than normal monsters. (around as much as uncommons ... or something like that)

Also from looking at my bonus from posting today... and comparing that to not posting at all... I get the feeling it can't work.

I have only 4 normal auras, so that's not doing much.

I have 93 level Adept Learner (+93%), as well as 30 points in exp tank (+90%).

Normal: like I said at the beginning.
With 5 posts (50%) : ~5000exp on avg. It's a huge increase. It shouldn't be that high, if I actually had 183% bonus + 50% = 233% bonus. It however makes more sense if I only have 93% bonus + 50% = 133%.

e.g.:
100exp + 90% = 190exp *1.5*25 = 7125
100exp + 140% = 240exp *1.5*25 = 9000 (+26.3%)
--
100exp + 180% = 280exp *37.5 = 10500
100exp + 230% = 330exp *37.5 = 12375 (+17.3%)

As you see, the higher the base%, the less the posting-bonus should give. And my bonus simply feels way to high for exp-tank to be working right. Aura shouldn't mess up thinks, it's a seperate bonus. (the *37.5 actually doesn't matter either)

It's a lot of guessing in this thread... but yeah.

edit: Actually, the increase through posting make it kinda look like neither the exp tank, nor the training +exp do anything. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (because it's such a huge % increase of the total exp I gain. I know get up to 6000 exp per three customs, which really feel like a total 60% +exp for the 6 posts, even though that shouldn't be the case?)

This post has been edited by killi890: Aug 21 2011, 16:57

And that is a wrong way to test it. Monster Powerlevel has a HUGE influence on EXP gain.

They do indeed.
So measuring one fight with another, while not having a exact check on their powerlevel, will give a skewed result.

But doing 10 fights, on the same level and with the same number of monsters per round and thing should even out.
Maybe a few monster had higher powerlevel in one fights, but lower in another.

The point is, the more fights you do, the more this will even out.

I compared the same type of fighting, arena and grindfest, separate from each other, so they would not affect the result. I then recorded the exp gained from a fight based on the numbers of common monsters in them. But not their powerlevel.

Which means that comparing a dozen arena fights against 2 monsters before the removal of exp tanks, with a dozen arena fights against 2 monsters. And then the same for vs 3 monsters, before and after.
And then repeating it in a grindfest, with logging multiple fights against the same number of monsters, logging it it separatedly based on the number of monsters in a fight.
And with all other things being equal, this should give a good clue of how things are.
If there is a few monsters higher powerlevel in one fight, then that should balance out with there being a few weaker in the next, and it should affect both rounds of testing equally, simply by doing enough them these differences will even out in the end.

And even if there are minor discrepancies in the test, which there were, it is still a very huge bonus that should be there (54% for me) tha simply wasn't there.
And it is not a small marginal bonus that might be skewed by a few percents error, but it is a very large number that was simply not existing.

We are not hunting a very small difference that might be hard to find, no, we are trying to find something that should have a major impact on things.
I could trace down the changes between single posts on the forum and how they affected the results.
And a single post is on fifth the bonus compared to the bonus I should have gotten from the exp tank.

It is simply not there.

But doing 10 fights, on the same level and with the same number of monsters per round and thing should even out.

More like a few 1000 rounds (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

More like a few 1000 rounds (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

1000 rounds would give a more secure and precise number, but 10 rounds should be sufficient to give a usable result.
Remember, we are not looking for a small difference of a single percent or so, but a very very big difference of 54%.

Also, doing 1000 rounds wouldn't be possible, since with that many rounds you would risk gaining a level, which would skew the result.

And it was not 10 rounds in total, but 10 rounds with 2 monster, and then a bunch of rounds with 3 monsters, and with 4 monsters and with 5 monsters.
And doing separate counts for arena and grindfest, so a total of something like 40 rounds with 2 monsters (10 pre-removal in arean, 10 pre-removal in grind, 10 post-removal in arena, 10 post-removal in grind).

Now all categories did not have 10 rounds each, some had more and some had less, due to the number of monsters being a bit random and such.
But it is still enough tests that the results should even out and be useful.
Which they also are. The difference between the categories when averaged out for number of rounds check out.
Meaning the same difference in value per monster in a group of 2 compared to a group of 3, 4 or 5 coincides both pre- and post-removal.
And comparing testings 1, 2 and 3 also also showed the effect of postcount in a predicted way. Meaning I could see a difference, that matched the postcount, but no difference that matched the removal of the experience tanks.

So while this is not the complete and total truth, it is nonetheless very telling, since something that big should be noticeable, even counting in some anomalies of some high powerlvl common monsters appearing randomly.


So while you may not rely on my test, that is up to you, but it has quite clearly shown for me at least, that it has no effect whatsoever.
If you doubt my claim, I would suggest that you do a test of your own. And then you can present your findings and see if you can find a noticeable difference.

This post has been edited by Randommember: Aug 21 2011, 19:24

More like a few 1000 rounds (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

For that matter, considering your incredibly high level, you should be at max tier (18 I believe, according to ehwiki), where you could put in 54 ability points, that would give you 162% bonus.

162%

Even counting in auras, adept learner, hath auras, donation auras and so on, 162% is still a very big number.

So try and repeat my tests.
Do it simple.
Do a search on your posts in the forum, count how many you have.
Then do grindfests in a certain difficulty level, writing down the experience you get from a set number of common monsters, whatever is the normal amount of monsters thta you usually face off with in grindfest.
Do a bunch of those.
And then, reset your abilities. And either put full points into experience tanks, or no points in them, depending on how you had it before the reset.

And then wait a day, doing nothing in hentaiverse, and only posting the same number of posts that you had active on your last test.

Then do the same type of test that you did before.

And then see if you can find that difference that should be very noticeable with 162%.
Even if all other bonuses are counted separately from the base, it should still be easy to spot.

49% from standard auras, 250% from your septuastar, 177% from a possible full set of hath auras, 100% from postcount and 300% for full levels in adept learner.
The final hath perk organized mind is added on top of everything, after all other bonuses has been counted, so that has no bearing on the result for this.

But even with all these bonuses maxed out, counting them separately should give a impressive 976% experience from a monster (base being 100%). But counting in the ability tank bonus, that should then be 1138%.
That is still a very noticeable difference of about 16,5% percent higher compared to without it, or 14,2% less compared to having it.

And for every one of these set bonuses that you don't have, the difference gets more noticeable.

So please, make the same tests, and report your findings.

This post has been edited by Randommember: Aug 21 2011, 19:46

Nah. Deleting my skills is to much work. I would have to click for like 20 minutes to get them back. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Nah. Deleting my skills is to much work. I would have to click for like 20 minutes to get them back. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

But you think that I should be clicking through 2000+ fights?

But you think that I should be clicking through 2000+ fights?

No that's why I said use the fucking method I posted some pages ago.

No that's why I said use the fucking method I posted some pages ago.

Going for a 1vs1 with a single specific monster, that has to be the right lvl?

Sure, sounds good in theory, but with the scarcity of 1vs1 fights in grindfests, and the odds of facing off with a certain monster, that's relying a lot on luck.
You risk ending up with the 1000+ fights and risk of lvling up, while hoping for a 1vs1 with the right monster of the right level.


I prefer averages and evening it out over multiple fights. Which in the end gives the same result, namely how much does experience increase if you put points into experience tank.

And once again, it is not a small number we are hunting after, but a pretty big difference.
Especially for those of that has few points in adept learner, base number of auras and no bonus hath/donation auras.

This post has been edited by Randommember: Aug 21 2011, 21:03

battle in arena, HARD:lv1~lv100: total rounds 265

abilities EXP *42 *3%=126%


1 day:total exp:410523
so reset abilities,Wait a day


2 day::total exp:410130
3 day::total exp:445499


do not see the effect of EXP Bouns (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

At least I think it is a very low rate of return in the lv 150

This post has been edited by ctc226: Aug 25 2011, 04:54

Sorry to bring this post back up, but after doing some testing of my own I have found EXP Tank be an insignificant boost...

Using Liselotte Werckmeister as my testing dummy I killed her with all my exp tanks, which comes out to 51 points in it, which supposed to be a 153% additive increase to my total exp bonus.

Liselotte Werckmeister PL 666 ML 203: 6334.98 exp

Resetting my points and waiting 8 hours I got the following result

Liselotte Werckmeister PL 666 ML 203: 6197.99 exp

Correct me if I am wrong but IIRC the exp bonus is: The sum of Adept learner, exp tanks, toplist bonus, and posting bonus, and both Hath Perks and Auras are separate. Which I assume means they are multiplied. (see first two pages and look for Tenboro's posts)

A.
(1+adept learner+exp tanks+posting bonus)*(1+aura bonus)*(1+hath perks)
With level 125 adept learner, 51 points in exp tanks, all 7 primary auras, a gold star, black, white, and rainbow auras I should have the following:
(1+125/100+51*3/100+10/100)*(1+7*7/100+100/100+50/100+50/100+77/100)*(1+0)=16.54 which is 1654% bonus exp

If I take out exp tanks I drop down to 1001%

B.
If however its all summed except for the hath perk
(1+adept learner+exp tanks+posting bonus+aura bonus)*(1+hath perks)
With level 125 adept learner, 51 points in exp tanks, all 7 primary auras, a gold star, black, white, and rainbow auras I should have the following:
(1+125/100+51*3/100+10/100+7*7/100+100/100+50/100+50/100+77/100)*(1+0)=7.14 or 714% bonus

Without exp tanks this is a 561% bonus

Case A: Going from 1654%>1001% is a drop of 39.43%
Case B: Going from 714%>561% is a drop of 21.43%

Tested exp change 6234.98 > 6197.99 which is a .5933% change (almost nothing)

In either case the exp actually obtained from the monster does not match how much exp should affect it.

Other Data: (without the duplicates)
Liselotte Werckmeister PL 666
w/exp tank
L207:6459.17
L206:6357.20
L204:6298.64
L203:6234.98
w/o exp tank
L203: 6197.99
L202: 6171.266:

Eila Ilmatar Juutilainen PL 739
w/exp tank
L206:7200.86
w/o exp tank
L206:7116.47

change here is 1.172% (almost nothing)

Side note: Was originally trying to figure out how the Level of the mob spawned effect exp, but then decided I should try to tackle how monster PL and player bonuses effected it first.

Side note2: Oh and you are welcome all those who own the monsters I ran away from repeatedly

Conclusion: Exp tank fails in both cases of exp bonus calculations

Tenboro, can you please post the full equation on how exp is calculated including Monster PL and level, bonuses, and everything else that goes into it?

Eh, no. But I can post the equation that is relevant.

CODE

$get_exp = ceil( $get_exp * $aurabonus * (1 + $hathperkbonus / 100) * (1 + ($skillbonus + $trainbonus + $toplistbonus + $postbonus) / 100) );

$skillbonus is the contribution from ability trees, and is increased by 3 for every point in Experience Tank.

Eh, no. But I can post the equation that is relevant.

CODE

$get_exp = ceil( $get_exp * $aurabonus * (1 + $hathperkbonus / 100) * (1 + ($skillbonus + $trainbonus + $toplistbonus + $postbonus) / 100) );

$skillbonus is the contribution from ability trees, and is increased by 3 for every point in Experience Tank.

with $skillbonus going from 3*51 to 3*0 should account for more then the small change that I found while grinding out data. So I don't know whats going on...

I also waited more then 8 hours so its not a time issue, I don't want to sound like an ass, but even though you say it works it doesn't seem to be.

(added bonus going from all primary auras and 51 exp tanks to no primary auras and 51 exp tanks Elia's exp goes from 7097.91 to 6453.25... again waited over 2 hours so it should've taken effect, so something seems screwy to me...)

This post has been edited by skillchip: Sep 3 2011, 02:27

with $skillbonus going from 3*51 to 3*0 should account for more then the small change that I found while grinding out data. So I don't know whats going on...

I also waited more then 8 hours so its not a time issue, I don't want to sound like an ass, but even though you say it works it doesn't seem to be.

(added bonus going from all primary auras and 51 exp tanks to no primary auras and 51 exp tanks Elia's exp goes from 7097.91 to 6453.25... again waited over 2 hours so it should've taken effect, so something seems screwy to me...)

Just a wild guess: Could it be the EXP Bonus only counts for a monsters base EXP and not for the Bonus EXP it gets for its Powerlevel?