[X] My Assistant

Nope, doesn't decrease. The only ones the multiplier doesn't apply to are editors.

Nope, doesn't decrease. The only ones the multiplier doesn't apply to are editors.

OOC, why only editors and not uploaders and scanners, who spent hours and/or $, looking for content, or vigilantes who ensure that our galleries are properly named, tagged and free of duplicates? Isn't is a bit discriminatory? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Their skillset and actions may be different, but some uploaders, scanners and vigilantes do put many hours into helping out and making sure the galleries function properly, too, and we have easy access to material to translate.

because he wants to give them a discount? i'm grateful as is rookie84 is offering his services for such a nice rate and is so damn punctual

OOC, why only editors and not uploaders and scanners, who spent hours and/or $, looking for content, or vigilantes who ensure that our galleries are properly named, tagged and free of duplicates? Isn't is a bit discriminatory? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Their skillset and actions may be different, but some uploaders, scanners and vigilantes do put many hours into helping out and making sure the galleries function properly, too, and we have easy access to material to translate.

Uploaders and vigilantes are already rewarded by the E-H system. Why do I have to reward them too? And IMO it's pretty damn classless to ask for more when I'm already doing everyone a favor by taking requests. I'm not an ATM. Every time I do a bounty for someone, that means an evening or two I have to put off my own translations. I'll complete the bounty you asked for since I already accepted it but you're pushing me dangerously close to refusing it, Red.

Time out, guys, I am asking in good faith here, and with the max possible respect for everyone else.

Rookie, let me apologize heartily if I said anything you found offensive or annoying. I never meant any slight. I certainly agree that you are doing us all a favor, we are all volunteers here, and you are among the most cherished and productive individuals here. And just to be clear, I never thought you have any obligations to anyone, myself or anyone else. Each commission you agree for us is a gift you are not required to give. We ask you to consider translating stuff, you agree or not, it is your choice, and when you agree, we are certainly very appreciative. And of course we realize that translating for somebody else means you are not translating for yourself, which is why the least we can do is to compensate you (also please note I am not complaining about the price; I am prepared to pay what you are asking, which under the current guidelines means something like the next 2-3 commissions, at which point I won't have the ability to continue to ask for any more - but that is my choice and my problem, nothing for you to be concerned about; even when I won't be able to ask for any more of your time, I will be eternally grateful for all the work you have done for me in the past - and for the record, I still remember that the first few translations you did for me, back in the days before we even had the Cove, were free! So, you rock, Rookie, for ever and ever (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)).

I am simply curious why you value editor contributions more than those of others (correct me if I am wrong, but this is just the impression I get from reading your commission rules). For example, as far as I know, most groups treat scanners as on par with translators and editors (but for obvious reasons they do not have categories of uploaders or vigilantes). Scanners are also not compensated by the E-H system, yet you have no scanner discount. I have no axe to grind here (I am not a scanner, after all), I am just curious to understand the dynamics of valuation in play here. Is it because we have no significant scanner participation on our forums, and this never came up? Or for another reason?

Regarding compensation of uploaders by the E-H system, since you mentioned it... having uploaded numerous high quality galleries yourself, Rookie (I'd assume your high quality translations would be among some of our most popular galleries), I am sure you can check how much GP you earn daily, divide it by the number of galleries, and get some interesting numbers here. Given the current valuation of hath at about 13k, how long does it take you to earn 14k credits from uploads? Or, how long do you think it takes for a gallery to pay back for itself (given an editor rate)? Some numbers I run a while ago suggested that an average gallery (20 page size) commissioned through the bounty system (using the 1k+1h rate) takes about 50 YEARS to pay back for itself... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

On that note, I would be curious to know if you would charge a different multiplier if the gallery was returned to you for upload? In other word, could one trade the "uploader compensation" for a discount?

Oh, and with regards to vigilantes, what is the compensation they receive from the E-H system? The last time I checked people in the Top 10 got a monthly gift Hentaiverse item worth about ~1k credits on average. Which, rough calculations will show, means that being very active in renaming and all the other stuff that vigilante does makes one being able to afford just under a one single translated page per year... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I am ending here, and I hope the above post contains nothing that can be seen as arrogant, offensive or otherwise. Once again, I have only the utmost respect and gratitude for Rookie, who is almost certainly the most prolific translator who takes commissions for the Cove.

PS. I think that is a good idea to offer incentives to editors, to motivate people to consider becoming one. I just thought that other groups (scanners, uploaders and vigilantes) are also helpful, and it wouldn't be bad to motivate commissioners to become more involved by joining their ranks, too.

This post has been edited by Red_Piotrus: May 9 2012, 03:20

Time out, guys, I am asking in good faith here, and with the max possible respect for everyone else.

Rookie, let me apologize heartily if I said anything you found offensive or annoying. I never meant any slight. I certainly agree that you are doing us all a favor, we are all volunteers here, and you are among the most cherished and productive individuals here. And just to be clear, I never thought you have any obligations to anyone, myself or anyone else. Each commission you agree for us is a gift you are not required to give. We ask you to consider translating stuff, you agree or not, it is your choice, and when you agree, we are certainly very appreciative. And of course we realize that translating for somebody else means you are not translating for yourself, which is why the least we can do is to compensate you (also please note I am not complaining about the price; I am prepared to pay what you are asking, which under the current guidelines means something like the next 2-3 commissions, at which point I won't have the ability to continue to ask for any more - but that is my choice and my problem, nothing for you to be concerned about; even when I won't be able to ask for any more of your time, I will be eternally grateful for all the work you have done for me in the past).

I am simply curious why you value editor contributions more than those of others (correct me if I am wrong, but this is just the impression I get from reading your commission rules). For example, as far as I know, most groups treat scanners as on par with translators and editors (but for obvious reasons they do not have categories of uploaders or vigilantes). Scanners are also not compensated by the E-H system, yet you have no scanner discount. I have no axe to grind here (I am not a scanner, after all), I am just curious to understand the dynamics of valuation in play here. Is it because we have no significant scanner participation on our forums, and this never came up? Or for another reason?

Regarding compensation of uploaders by the E-H system, since you mentioned it... having uploaded numerous high quality galleries yourself, Rookie (I'd assume your high quality translations would be among some of our most popular galleries), I am sure you can check how much GP you earn daily, divide it by the number of galleries, and get some interesting numbers here. Given the current valuation of hath at about 13k, how long does it take you to earn 14k credits from uploads? Or, how long do you think it takes for a gallery to pay back for itself (given an editor rate)?

On that note, I would be curious to know if you would charge a different multiplier if the gallery was returned to you for upload? In other word, could one trade the "uploader compensation" for a discount?

Oh, and with regards to vigilantes, what is the compensation they receive from the E-H system? The last time I checked people in the Top 10 got a monthly gift Hentaiverse item worth about ~1k credits on average. Which, rough calculations will show, means that being very active in renaming and all the other stuff that vigilante does makes one being able to afford just under a one single translated page per year... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I am ending here, and I hope the above post contains nothing that can be seen as arrogant, offensive or otherwise. Once again, I have only the utmost respect and gratitude for Rookie, who is almost certainly the most prolific translator who takes commissions for the Cove.

PS. I think that is a good idea to offer incentives to editors, to motivate people to consider becoming one. I just thought that other groups (scanners, uploaders and vigilantes) are also helpful, and it wouldn't be bad to motivate commissioners to become more involved by joining their ranks, too.

Rookie's price thread model is so ridiculously good for requesters already why is there even a need to suggest anything to him that doesn't benefit him significantly?

The reason I posted my response in #223 is because I'm given the impression you are questioning the generosity of his model. Your post sounds like it wants Rookie to be MORE generous. Why else would you question it? If you're happy with it, take it as is and leave no questions.

So he wants to give a discount to Editors, great - lucky them. There's no need for any further discussion on that matter, really. Because no one is losing out.

I support Rookie in keeping his model as is and feel he has no need to explain his reasoning in his model to anyone. Even if he decides to close this thread I'm totally fine with it and am thankful for the translations he has done to date.

I'm not gonna pry too much into this (since i'm taking a short break from editing atm), but I think I know where Rookie is coming from. For the most part, translators and editors do alot of work when it comes to the actual task of putting out the actual translated work, more so than just scanning it and leaving it in the wild for someone else to put it in another language. And since Rookie does editing too, he knows what it's like for us, which might be the reason for the discount.

This post has been edited by Super Shanko: May 9 2012, 03:32

Sorry, dcherry, I believe that all things can be improved. It's a quirk of my personality. *shrugs*

To respond to your bolded claims.

I am not questioning the generosity of rookie's model, it is certainly very generous.

With regards to "no one losing out", I cannot discuss it without a proper definition of what is losing out in this context.

It is certainly true that rookie is offering high quality translations to all comers, without any initial discrimination.

It is also a fact that in his current model all non-editors will be eventually locked out from being able to file more requests. Which may be necessary to allow rookie to balance requests and personal translations, and may be justified with other perfectly reasonable reasons.

I see no reason not why one cannot ask him to elaborate on some reasons behind the way his commission model is designed, and whether it may not be improved in some way or form. It is not beyond imagination that a possible improvement to this model would also be beneficial to him; for example a scanner discount might hypothetically allow him to form a closer collaboration with scanners who would provide him with dojins or mangas of interest to him that have not been uploaded to the galleries yet and wouldn't be otherwise.

Such discussion implies no disrespect, so please do not imply that I am implying it.

Also, please avoid turning this into any kind of flaming, I am sure rookie would not appreciate that.

This post has been edited by Red_Piotrus: May 9 2012, 03:41

Sorry, dcherry, I believe that all things can be improved. It's a quirk of my personality. *shrugs*

To respond to your bolded claims.

I am not questioning the generosity of rookie's model, it is certainly very generous.

With regards to "no one losing out", I cannot discuss it without a proper definition of what is losing out in this context.

It is certainly true that rookie is offering high quality translations to all comers, without any initial discrimination.

It is also a fact that in his current model all non-editors will be eventually locked out from being able to file more requests. Which may be necessary to allow rookie to balance requests and personal translations, and may be justified with other perfectly reasonable reasons.

I see no reason not why one cannot ask him to elaborate on some reasons behind the way his commission model is designed, and whether it may not be improved in some way or form. It is not beyond imagination that a possible improvement to this model would also be beneficial to him; for example a scanner discount might hypothetically allow him to form a closer collaboration with scanners who would provide him with dojins or mangas of interest to him that have not been uploaded to the galleries yet and wouldn't be otherwise.

Such discussion implies no disrespect, so please do not imply that I am implying it.

Also, please avoid turning this into any kind of flaming, I am sure rookie would not appreciate that.

No worries. I have no reason to flame you despite questioning your logic.

As for all non-editors being eventually locked out from being able to file more requests. That's perfect and I believe that's what he wants as well: "Hopefully, this will mean people will limit themselves to one or two translations they really want instead of asking for anything that strikes their fancy"

Rookie does not suffer from a under-demand of his services. He suffers from *over-demand* of his services. Any improvement to his model should be a price increase. Not decrease.

No worries. I have no reason to flame you despite questioning your logic.

As for all non-editors being eventually locked out from being able to file more requests. That's perfect and I believe that's what he wants as well: "Hopefully, this will mean people will limit themselves to one or two translations they really want instead of asking for anything that strikes their fancy"

Rookie does not suffer from a under-demand of his services. He suffers from *over-demand* of his services. Any improvement to his model should be a price increase. Not decrease.

Roughly, I agree with you. I am however considering that a potential motivation behind his system may also be to encourage people to learn editing, and/or a recognition that editing contributes much to the community (like SS noted above). If so, I wonder if there aren't several other "professions" related to our hobby here (scanner, uploader, vigilante) that may also deserve special treatment (as we can always use more people who do something constructive around here rather than just leech). Whether the three categories I mentioned are seen as worthy of such consideration, and whether they are any others I forgot about, is something I'd be curious to hear from Rookie, you and others.

(And for the record, I fully respect rookie's right to say that he does not want to continue this discussion, or anything else he decides and decrees (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ; this brainstorm is meant to be of help and/or interest to him, and if it isn't, I have no intention to continue it)

This post has been edited by Red_Piotrus: May 9 2012, 05:02

Looking back at my initial response, I realize I may have been a little more aggressive than warranted, Red; I was very tired and grumpy from my work in RL, and when I saw you essentially asking me to devote more of my time to other people I snapped.

The reasoning behind my model is simple. I am sympathetic to individuals who have that one favorite doujinshi/manga chapter that they love and have been waiting months/years to get it translated. In that case, I am happy to translate it for them, even if the fetish/series/content is not to my taste; I think we can all agree that the initial rate I charge is more than reasonable. I am rather less sympathetic when someone comes to me with many requests; it's a much bigger drain on my time, and it gives me the feeling that you don't appreciate each individual doujinshi as much. (Note, I am not talking about my translation, I am talking about the original doujinshi itself.) This, in addition to allowing me to have some time to myself, is why I make it progressively more difficult with each request someone makes. I'm not going to stop someone if they're actually willing to pay 10k C + 10 hath for each page, but I'm certainly not going to make it easier for them to reach that stage.

As to why I give editors a discount, it's as SS says. I edit my own uploads, and I know how much time and effort goes into each page, let alone each gallery. That effort is even further magnified when you edit something for someone else that you yourself don't particularly care about. The discount is partly a token of appreciation for the work they do, and partly an incentive for more people to join their ranks.

I consider the work done by vigilantes/uploaders to be integral to E-H but tangential to the scanlation process. I consider the debate over how valuable the compensation E-H gives to vigilantes/uploaders to be irrelevant to the discussion here; if you don't consider it to be enough, take it up with Tenboro not me.

If a scanner only wants to make his scans available to translators, I'm willing to listen and work out a deal. Not if he just uploads a lot of his scans to the galleries though; then he's another uploader.

In any case, I have no intention of making it easier for non-editors to get a translation and, given the demand, any changes I make to my model would involve making it harder, not easier, to get multiple translations. Red, I'll consider your suggestions if they allow me to spend less time on others and more time doing my own thing. If they don't... they're not really improvements, are they?

P.S. Not that it matters, but I apparently average 230k GP per gallery. That includes my earliest galleries; assuming that they don't get banished to the fjords, most of my latest uploads earn me 300-500k GP within 3-4 days.

This post has been edited by rookie84: May 9 2012, 15:56

Toaru Musashino Bust Upper bounty completed:
(IMG:[85.17.121.227] http://85.17.121.227/d0/5b/d05bb1792178421e8d50f8d7b191f7f636595b4b-515030-1118-1600-jpg_l.jpg)

hey, could you translate https://e-hentai.org/g/14327/43592e28fa/ ?

Just the pages of action from 02 to 25, then the comedy strips on 27 and 28.

Latest upload is chapter 6 of HI.TO.MI 2:
(IMG:[gt.ehgt.org] http://gt.ehgt.org/bd/6e/bd6e3a160a335beb8bcac8e534094d18f4118f3e-846673-1030-1500-png_l.jpg)

hey, could you translate https://e-hentai.org/g/14327/43592e28fa/ ?

Just the pages of action from 02 to 25, then the comedy strips on 27 and 28.

I assume you mean this? Man, looks like a lot of text. I guess I can do it though. Put up a bounty of 26k C + 26 hath and I'll start working on it.

https://e-hentai.org/bounty.php?bid=5774
posted

Thanks a ton.

Sweetish Fellow bounty completed:
(IMG:[85.17.121.227] http://85.17.121.227/f8/50/f850e44e6efa53a5584d426a94287c72887066d2-319525-1122-1600-jpg_l.jpg)

Fairly easy to translate but hell to transcribe. I will not be accepting any more bounties for now... my schedule is going to be extremely busy in June and I won't be able to do any translating at all in that month, so before that I'd like to focus on my own stuff first these next few weeks.

Thank you, Rookie!

Take care of everything in your personal life before you start translating again (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Latest upload is Momokan Dzukushi by Noshiki:
(IMG:[gt.ehgt.org] http://gt.ehgt.org/da/91/da914da1a15d9e95f141976542bb4b410e3710af-64104-560-420-jpg_l.jpg)

CG sets are fun to work on... you don't have to worry about cleaning or redrawing, and you can get pretty fancy with the layers.

nice pick ^^

Latest upload is chapter 7 of HI.TO.MI 2:
(IMG:[gt.ehgt.org] http://gt.ehgt.org/48/4b/484b2a334a7aa522bbc2a55e45c0e1d557180d5f-845616-1030-1500-png_l.jpg)

I think I'll try to fit in one more doujinshi before taking a break from translating.