[X] My Assistant

A nerf is still a nerf. 53% down to 46.4%. With no chance of boosting that number thru Prof grinding.

I can't believe I have to spoon-feed you this. With the overall reduction in damage from monsters, you still take less damage overall. Again. Unless everything is a buff, everything is a nerf. Right?

I got 2.5% more damage, but lost 12.5% in crits.

Your math still sucks. Reducing the crit rate by 12.5% does not equal a damage reduction of 12.5%. I could obviously never have a system rewrite and have everything add up exactly as it was for everyone, but considering that a lot of stuff ended up being buffed you should complain less about minor reductions. Honestly.

Also, Ichy is right. You balanced last version's Elemental Ratings nerf on that coding error.

Which happens when people don't report inconsistencies. It should be fairly obvious that doing twice the damage with a +50% elemental damage modifier is incorrect.

Since it's a free roll, i want try with the witch:
3740 | Sakamoto Mio | 150 |
(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Supportive spells were nerfed? I think not. Assume Level 300 and 300 Proficiency... Haste now adds +50% speed instead of +140 speed, which depending on your AGI is about the same or slightly less than before.

Also, if 50% is supposed to be "about the same" as +140 speed, that means you're assuming a level 300 has 280 action speed. Let me guess, you used a full set of magnificent cheetah gear as the test model?

Which happens when people don't report inconsistencies. It should be fairly obvious that doing twice the damage with a +50% elemental damage modifier is incorrect.

Not with a lot of custom mobs with unknown resistant running around.
Also I don't pay much attention to the numbers. its a matter of yay that new piece of phase made feelable me stronger.

Reducing the crit rate by 12.5% does not equal a damage reduction of 12.5%. I could obviously never have a system rewrite and have everything add up exactly as it was for everyone, but considering that a lot of stuff ended up being buffed you should complain less about minor reductions. Honestly.

Yeah, buffs which no one notices or even cares about.
Glad to see those buffs managed to overcome the massive double nerf in damage/avoidance over the last 2 versions.

Which happens when people don't report inconsistencies. It should be fairly obvious that doing twice the damage with a +50% elemental damage modifier is incorrect.

You might want to remove the randomization of damage, so people can tell with 100% accuracy that there are errors in the damage calculation.

And yes, it's our fault for not knowing that there's an error in a code which you never released to the public. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Edit: Which is also funny since you basically say here that everything seems to be OK, according to Sayo's calculations.

This post has been edited by Rei-Tenshi: Jul 11 2011, 20:10

Searing Skin still BROKEN.

Also, if 50% is supposed to be "about the same" as +140 speed, that means you're assuming a level 300 has 280 action speed. Let me guess, you used a full set of magnificent cheetah gear as the test model?

Get off your high horse. I balanced the skills around level 250, which makes it more correct for a larger majority of people. For the most part, the difference for higher-level people was minimal.

And yes, it's our fault for not knowing that there's an error in a code which you never released to the public. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Yeah, I should fire my QA team.

Oh wait. That's you people.

The fact that the code isn't released doesn't matter. If damage is X and damage modifier is +50%, and you end averaging a number 100% larger than X, it should be obvious that there's something wrong. And it is also obvious that you're watching your damage outputs fairly closely. Therefore, someone should have caught it.

Edit: Which is also funny since you basically say here that everything seems to be OK, according to Sayo's calculations.

Those tests were run with elemental damage modifiers too low to give a significantly wrong result.

Searing Skin still BROKEN.

Nope. New effect, it's not a DoT anymore.

Here, I put in the new effect:
http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Spells#Status_Effects

This post has been edited by Maximum_Joe: Jul 11 2011, 20:21

Searing Skin still BROKEN.

i think it's not broken, it changes, it now explode witch ice type magic and do damage at this time. The same effect for the other element type magic.

That sucks =/

Awesome! My Fatty Whale brought me Mid-Grade Wood. YAY!

The fact that the code isn't released doesn't matter.

Actually, it does. Up till the end, people STILL weren't sure what the actual formula was. Who knew if that extra damage came from some hidden calculations in the Magic Ratings? Hell, people weren't even sure how MDM and EDB interacted.

The fact that the code isn't released doesn't matter. If damage is X and damage modifier is +50%, and you end averaging a number 100% larger than X, it should be obvious that there's something wrong. And it is also obvious that you're watching your damage outputs fairly closely. Therefore, someone should have caught it.
Those tests were run with elemental damage modifiers too low to give a significantly wrong result.

I wasn't going to say anything, because I'm actually within the range of people that benefited (a lot) from this patch. But I think it's really unfair for you as a coder to push the responsibility of a coding error to us players. That fact you're painting it as a simple error that could be observed is entirely wrong as well. Yes, if we actually can consistantly observe double damage with the equipment we're wearing, we might be able to tell something was wrong. Just don't forget about all the other things affecting damage output, like great/normal status, random factor, creature resistances, equipment proficiencies, to name a few. And we'd need to observe this trend over probably thousands of hits or else, you could just wave it off as too small a sample size.

In fact, if someone like Sayo who often goes overkill on crunching numbers wasn't able tell you there was an obvious bug in the formula, I don't think anyone else would have a snowball's chance in hell of even imagining there was a bug.

This post has been edited by dkplee: Jul 11 2011, 20:29

But I think it's really unfair for you as a coder to push the responsibility of a coding error to us players. That fact you're painting it as a simple error that could be observed is entirely wrong as well.

I'm not saying that it was any given player's fault, and code will never be bug-free. But do the math. There is one coder, and how many players? The odds that no one noticed it is extremely low. And I'm not using it to attack people, but to defend the intentions of the patch. A little understanding goes a long way, and I'm seeing very little of it from some people.

Way to kill our sense of accomplishment.

on IWBTH and you took away that sense of accomplishment.

Sigh, I wish you could see it from the perspective of normal players, instead of thru god mode.

You also have to look at this from a player's perspective.

And yes, it's our fault for not knowing that there's an error in a code which you never released to the public. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Because you never gave us the spell damage formula and we had to work from scratch trying to "derive" this broken formula that you never released to the public under the assumption that it was not broken in the first place.

We've had our differences, but I think you and I could become good friends. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Will we ever get Void-based spells or Void gear?
The [en.wikipedia.org] obligatory Norse Mythology reference is not a problem.

Get off your high horse. I balanced the skills around level 250, which makes it more correct for a larger majority of people. For the most part, the difference for higher-level people was minimal.

You're right. My bad. You only used a set of level 250 magnificent cheetah. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

We've had our differences, but I think you and I could become good friends. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Haha yeah. We may have a lot more in common than we think. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I'm not saying that it was any given player's fault, and code will never be bug-free. But do the math. There is one coder, and how many players? The odds that no one noticed it is extremely low. And I'm not using it to attack people, but to defend the intentions of the patch. A little understanding goes a long way, and I'm seeing very little of it from some people.

It is not that easy for the players side because there are so many things that has influence on the damage.
And I always thought it was well balanced the way it was. I had not even complained (much) about the last nerf.

Its good to have it bug free now so you can start rebalancing it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Now the damage is just to low. I have REALLY good gear but that does not help much.

You're right. My bad. You only used a set of level 250 magnificent cheetah. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Funny man.

Haha yeah. We may have a lot more in common than we think. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Yeah, you should totally become snuggle buddies and stop ragging on my patch. At least the inconsequential stuff. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Oh btw, losing 12.5% crit chance will drop your total damage output by 4.16%. You can now start arguing about that 1.66% damage loss.