[X] My Assistant

Channeling

Channeling is the same as before, you just can't trigger it at will. I suppose you can call that a "nerf" if you're trying to make a point, but it's really to let non-mage players also have a chance to proc it.

Supportive spells (nearly all of them)

Supportive spells were nerfed? I think not. Assume Level 300 and 300 Proficiency. Shield and Barrier both had a mitigation bonus added to them instead of 90/180 points of absorption, which everyone have been asking for since the beginning of time. Haste now adds +50% speed instead of +140 speed, which depending on your AGI is about the same or slightly less than before. Shadow Veil adds +20%, which is the same. Absorb hasn't changed. Spark hasn't changed. Spirit Shield hasn't changed. AF/HS adds more attack damage and more accuracy, but less crit.

Accuracy.

Because it always made sense to have more than 100% hit chance. That's one of those things caused by people reaching higher levels than I ever expected. And you can still get 98-99% accuracy without sacrificing much, so it's hardly a valid complaint.

And monsters were buffed on top of all that.

Are we taking about the same game? Monsters do less damage than before. At high levels, the damage potential of skills was reduced to around 1/5th. The only buffs they received was Yggdrasil's aura and the resist bonus for the dragon encounter, and those hardly ever come into play.

I think Deprecating spells were also nerfed. Slow, Nerf now removing a set value instead of depending on Prof.

They don't remove a set value, they remove a percentage value. The end result is the same.

Shadow Veil adds +20%, which is the same.

- Due to the rewrite, all bonuses to what is considered percentage skills that would naturally be between 0% and 100% are now added multiplicatively. Specifically, this affects accuracy, avoidance and mitigation stats.

I currently have around 33% Evade.
Last version, SV would have given me 53% evade. Now all it gives is around 39% Evade.
End result: Lost 14% Evade.

AF/HS adds more attack damage and more accuracy, but less crit.

I lost around 12.5% crit, I think, which is a big deal.

And right now, there's no incentive to actually raise Supportive Prof, other than getting 1 more turn every 5 Prof points.

Because it always made sense to have more than 100% hit chance. That's one of those things caused by people reaching higher levels than I ever expected. And you can still get 98-99% accuracy without sacrificing much, so it's hardly a valid complaint.

I've always treated it as some form of achievement. Y'know, "I actually leveled up enough so that I don't miss anymore".
Now I feel like I'm a Lvl 70 weakling again. Way to kill our sense of accomplishment.

Are we taking about the same game? Monsters do less damage than before. At high levels, the damage potential of skills was reduced to around 1/5th.

Well, something was changed because when I was doing Dance with Dragons last night, all of the Legendaries were getting double turns on me. I had to manually cast Slow on every single one of them to be able to proc Ether Theft properly.

They don't remove a set value, they remove a percentage value. The end result is the same.

That was what I meant. Now it removes 10% no matter what your prof is. Didn't it do more before when it was based on Prof?

Channeling is the same as before, you just can't trigger it at will. I suppose you can call that a "nerf" if you're trying to make a point, but it's really to let non-mage players also have a chance to proc it.

Then will you atleast consider this?

How about you change the Channeling rules back to the old system for Staffs only?
And keep the Channeling-proc-on-any-spell rule for non-staffs?

That would be the best for both worlds.

I didn't like the changes much at first, but now I think they are fine.
- Spells do less damage than before. Which is not so bad. At least some monsters now survive the first spell so I can finaly try proc some mana theft.
- Arena got easier, but longer. The monsters deal way less damage than before. More credits for arena is great (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
- Regen I jumped from 50-ish to 72 per round. I'm happy.
- I like new channeling.
- Somehow I feel I get more drops.

Can you put an icon, like mooglemail, telling us when our monsters have an item?

What balancing? There was a bug in the old magic damage formula.

But you was balancing around that bug. Now we do about 700% less damage.

BW depends on what it says on the weapon and your proficiency. (It actually shows the real amount on the stat pane now.)

Oh (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Poison and Soul Fire are a percentage of the monster's base health (before apply their version of the "HP tank") and proficiency, multiplied by the effect's damage factor.

That explains a lot. Still i think it is sad Curse Weaver is now worthless.

The answer is always no. Besides, for people who spent a lot of crystals, the number of crystals lost in the "cost for other crystals" is fairly negligible compared to the other part of the cost.

Nah for me its will be easily above 10000 Crystals. Should be even more for Frith (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)


--- By the way your Dragons resist way to much! I needed to cast like 10 times to silence that fucker! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

This post has been edited by Ichy: Jul 11 2011, 17:38

I can't enter an Item World with both the downloadable and custom font, using Firefox.

But you was balancing around that bug. Now we do about 700% less damage.

Lol, do you really think we're doing 700% less dmg?

Lol, do you really think we're doing 700% less dmg?

I dunno. Fells like 9001% reduction.
Killing Normalmobs is like killing Hellmobs before this patch.

I cant say for sure since I have not touched Normal modo for ages (except for EoT and daily FSM) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I currently have around 33% Evade.
Last version, SV would have given me 53% evade. Now all it gives is around 39% Evade.
End result: Lost 14% Evade.

Your math sucks. 1 - ( (1 - 0.33) * (1 - 0.20) ) = 46.4%.

I lost around 12.5% crit, I think, which is a big deal.

I think I get your logic now. Unless everything is a buff, everything is a nerf. Right?

And right now, there's no incentive to actually raise Supportive Prof, other than getting 1 more turn every 5 Prof points.

And that's no incentive? I had many reasons to change them to percentage calculations - primarily eliminating the effect of interference on supportive/deprecating spells and making balancing easier - and hardly any to not do it.

Well, something was changed because when I was doing Dance with Dragons last night, all of the Legendaries were getting double turns on me. I had to manually cast Slow on every single one of them to be able to proc Ether Theft properly.

If by "last night" you mean "less than eight hours after the patch", the speed reductions monsters have when there are many of them wasn't applied.

That was what I meant. Now it removes 10% no matter what your prof is. Didn't it do more before when it was based on Prof?

No. Firing up a random RoB, a level 300 FSM has a Shield Rating of 1781.

In 0.5.3, you'd cut off 105 points.

In 0.6.0, you'll cut off 178 points.

Not that it even matters, since the rating stats are going the way of the dodo.

Try harder.

Can you put an icon, like mooglemail, telling us when our monsters have an item?

The system doesn't roll on whether they have one or not until you check them.

The system doesn't roll on whether they have one or not until you check them.

Is it 1 per day per monster? I just know there's gonna be peeps bothering their monsters frequently.

And that's no incentive? I had many reasons to change them to percentage calculations - primarily eliminating the effect of interference on supportive/deprecating spells and making balancing easier - and hardly any to not do it.

Sure it makes the Spell last longer so there is a use of grinding Profs.
But think about the gear too. No one will use Priestess and Co. just for a few extra turns and then some day they will face the same fate as Sword Chucks.

Even %based the spells could become a bit better every ~few points of Prof. So people would actually consider to mix a piece of Curse Weaver/Earth Walker/Priestess in.

Your math sucks. 1 - ( (1 - 0.33) * (1 - 0.20) ) = 46.4%.

A nerf is still a nerf. 53% down to 46.4%. With no chance of boosting that number thru Prof grinding.

I think I get your logic now. Unless everything is a buff, everything is a nerf. Right?

I got 2.5% more damage, but lost 12.5% in crits.
I guess that's an overall buff in your eyes.

(And the accuracy bonus doesn't matter considering I didn't miss in the last version anyway.)

And that's no incentive? I had many reasons to change them to percentage calculations - primarily eliminating the effect of interference on supportive/deprecating spells and making balancing easier - and hardly any to not do it.

Yep, considering that Supportive prof used to boost a lot of little stats on the spells. It's the reason why I grinded my Support Prof to max last version, to get that 20% Additive evade boost, a 140 speed boost, + extra damage + crits on AF. The knowledge that increasing my Support Prof further would also improve those spells even more was a great incentive. Now? Lol, you ONLY get 1 more turn every 5 points.

Sigh, I wish you could see it from the perspective of normal players, instead of thru god mode.

No. Firing up a random RoB, a level 300 FSM has a Shield Rating of 1781.
In 0.5.3, you'd cut off 105 points.
In 0.6.0, you'll cut off 178 points.

I could have sworn that you said somewhere that Nerf used to reduce it by a base 10% + some prof.

-------

Also, Ichy is right. You balanced last version's Elemental Ratings nerf on that coding error. And now since you fixed that coding error, we got double screwed. At least give us something back for that.

Supportive spells were nerfed? I think not. Assume Level 300 and 300 Proficiency... Haste now adds +50% speed instead of +140 speed, which depending on your AGI is about the same or slightly less than before.

Yeah, just slightly less. Only 50 points for me. 165 to 115. Thanks for the non-nerf.

no more GF for me then.

Im Arena only until Magic Damage gets fixed.

But you was balancing around that bug. Now we do about 700% less damage.

I don't even feel like doing arenas because they're taking forever on BT. I don't give a shit if Tenboro says there was a "bug" or not, it was effectively another huge mage nerf. As you've said, this is another case of balancing around a bug where we end up double-dipped. Seriously, I'm using the legendary staff and a full set of new EDB gear, and I'm weaker than I was at level 250.

--- By the way your Dragons resist way to much! I needed to cast like 10 times to silence that fucker! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

MagNet

This post has been edited by hitokiri84: Jul 11 2011, 19:57

At least I would like to have the 40% magic bonus from elemental ratings back....if possible
Because that nerf on magic was done after the spell damage bug had been added...

This post has been edited by neet132435: Jul 11 2011, 19:17

But think about the gear too. No one will use Priestess and Co. just for a few extra turns and then some day they will face the same fate as Sword Chucks.

Yeah they kinda became just a little worthless, but perhaps in the future we get new suffix gear increasing the supportive/curative/deprecating spell effects without increasing their duration (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edit:

MagNet

It would still be resisted 10 times before start working (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by cmdct: Jul 11 2011, 19:26

MagNet

Damn. I always forget this one! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


Ladies an Gentlemen: Here my Suggestion to fix some mess of this patch:
Increase indigo Aura to 5% Magical Damage for each Tier.
Same with Red Aura. With Custom Mobs everywhere a little buff to melee is justified (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Also: Change Auras Elemental Resistance to Elemental Damage Bonus.
Suddenly people will donate to get Aura Points.

Because of this Chance improve Resistance Gear somewhat (retroactively)

This should help.
if it is still not enough:

At least I would like to have the 40% magic bonus from elemental ratings back....if possible

magnet is broken
if it is supposed to eliminate resist and evade
then why am i still missing spells on monsters affected by magnet

magnet is broken
if it is supposed to eliminate resist and evade
then why am i still missing spells on monsters affected by magnet

Because you can still miss.

Overall -

_ I lost about 2% (98% -> 96%) to my hit chance with weapons and spells.
_ I lost about 10% (45% -> 35%) to my critical chance with weapons and spells.
_ I lost 25% (200% -> 150% increase) of speed (I use to be able to double hit all but four or five monsters in the first two rounds).
_ My damage dealt stayed the same.
_ My cures first went down 20% then up 20% after the complaining.
_ I can fight Eila again (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
_ The new channelling method is not very useful to me (triggers on high cost spells - now that I have it, I don't need it as the spell is already cast and the MP spent).
_ Arenas are much better without midbosses.
_ Upgrading monsters went from too hard to too easy.

The one change I don't like - the nerf to the monsters' skill attack. Eila use to be scary, I would deal with her first before her MP reached 50%. Now, I just ignore her like I ignore everybody else.

New change I would most like to see - the ability to be able to have the monsters below level 100 to not spawn.

Still waiting for my first battlecasting and void gear so I can try them out.

(I know poison now does dark damage but would like it if it said so in the fight log. Seeing the words 'dark damage' puts a smile on my face.)

This post has been edited by nwbell6: Jul 11 2011, 20:06

Sorry to disturb you guys on various arguments.
Just finished all the arenas, and here are my observations

1. The arena's now giving experience generously.

Just before the patch: Clear all arenas on hell difficulty, including Trio.
Trio gives about 2-3 million exp with great status, while the rest is played at normal status and gives about 10 million exp together.

After the patch: Same run, all arenas on hell difficulty, Trio on Heroic to avoid ugly mess-up
Trio gives 3.7 million on heroic. That's already more exp than before.
All other arenas gives up a whooping 44.7 million of experience, which is about 4 times than before.

2. The number of monsters in each arena

Maximum_Joe has updated the number of monsters until arena 'exile', and I updated until Trio.

Interesting thing to note:
'Crusade' now has less monsters than previous arena, while 'To kill a God' now more monsters than Trio.
Besides that, starting from 'sealed power' you'll rarely see mini-boss.

What does these things mean? I don't know. I just think 'To kill a God' is now way more difficult.

3. Credits from arena

Before the patch, I received about 53400 credits from arenas, where 16400 is from arena clear bonus.
After the patch, I received about 58200 credits from arenas, where 20800 is from arena clear bonus.
The buff on credits seems to be the effect of increase in arena clear bonus only. Custom monsters doesn't help much.

4. Actual game-play experience

I spent almost a whole day doing all the arenas. It's because I cannot one-shot all the monsters now.
However, the damage from monsters is now way less than before, at least at my level and difficulty.
My spirit shield's practically useless now; nobody hit me so hard to activate it.

5. Try to kill FSM!
Today's run on FSM: Normal difficulty, playing in normal status only.
FSM has about 10% less hp than before, which is a good thing.
Its attack is also dealing less damage. I remember it's dealing about 600 damage before the patch, now it's only about 200 damage.
I just spam it to death; nerfs on FSM need to recharge 1 time.

Again, sorry for disturbing. Please continue with your arguments.

This post has been edited by varst: Jul 11 2011, 19:59