QUOTE
radixius: oh, I'm a dumb person
radixius: I'm reading a blargh
radixius: of the development of Mother 4, a fangame
Grahf: oh?
Grahf: that sounds promising, sort of
radixius: and there was something that struck me as interesting, this line in specific: "A major part of any RPG is its battle system. One might argue that battle systems are what make RPGs games."
radixius: can you remove the battle system of an RPG and still make it an engrossing, interesting game?
radixius: noodle that one for a second and get back to me
radixius: what are the other parts of an RPG, let's brainstorm this, since you're a smart dude and I am not a smart dude
radixius: there's NPC interaction, shopping, travel, for starters
Grahf: yeah
Grahf: isn't a game like unh, I forget, ricanteur or whatever, a sort of example of this?
radixius: recettear?
radixius: there is battling
Grahf: that's the one
radixius: not done by the main character Recette, but by mercenaries that are hired out
radixius: in any case, walking around, shopping and interacting with characters that you're not playing as...
radixius: that's a Sim type game
radixius: is the battle system the only thing that makes an RPG such?
Grahf: mostly isn't it the story that bares relevance?
radixius: alright, so now we have another element
radixius: the story
radixius: let me think on this for a second
radixius: so a story and a battle system are what make an RPG
radixius: can you remove one of these and still make an RPG?
Grahf: hmmm
radixius: mostly, I am concerned about an RPG with no battles, but all the other parts
radixius: is it possible to make one like that, but have it not be boring or sucktacular?
Grahf: well, there's the "dating rpgs"
Grahf: but those, well, mostly suck
Grahf: they still have stat systems though
Grahf: I guess if you took the battle elements out of those "Princess Maker" RPG's you'd have one as well
radixius: aren't dating games usually tossed into the Sim genre?
Grahf: in fact, not sure if those battles count, since strictly speaking I don't believe you're in control of them
Grahf: I'm not really sure, myself
radixius: this is probably going to get convoluted and stupid, so bear with me
radixius: let's give this game an isometric view, you control a single character, you travel from town to town, basically doing deliveries for people, perhaps being a travel agent, perhaps (?), getting money to (?), getting more and more clients, going home, making decisions, blah blah blah
radixius: that's a sim-type game, correct?
Grahf: strictly speaking, yes
radixius: I mean, that's like a big city version of Harvest Moon, more or less
radixius: now, let's give it a story, you're a dude/lady, you work for a company
radixius: you do jobs that require travel for this company
radixius: eventually you go out on the town, and get into a relationship/married//whatever
radixius: based on decisions made
radixius: you can also either go up in the current workplace or travel to another town to do business in a different branch of the company
radixius: all the while having things occur in the daily life of this person that drive to a sort of conclusion
radixius: now
radixius: these occurances, scenarios, whatever, are all triggered like the missions from GTA
radixius: but no combat happens, at all
radixius: things are done via a context menu with different choices
radixius: here's the question
radixius: is that, in all technicality, a battle system?
Grahf: by virtue of the game, yes. If you're going by the standard definition of battle, then no.
Grahf: Thing is, my reasoning goes like this: if you strip the battles out of an RPG, what do you get? A stat management system and a story, pretty much.
Grahf: at least it seems like that
radixius: while I was writing all that out, the thought occurred that, you go to a bar, some guy gets perturbed, you can choose to punch him, walk away, or (?).
radixius: that's a battle, technically. That is an altercation that requires physical avoidance or physical intervention
radixius: of some sort
radixius: that context menu became "ATTACK" or "RUN AWAY".
radixius: or, you know, whatever
radixius: and then there's your completely correct idea that you're left with a sim game with a terribly trite story
Grahf: the game you described would like have minigame
Grahf: s
Grahf: things like button sequence games, memory tests, that sort of thing, that get easier the more of the relevant stat you have
radixius: well, it would basically be forced to have minigames, otherwise it's a glorified text adventure
Grahf: those aren't "battles" they are trials though
Grahf: and hell, when you look at stuff like wario ware, that kind of thing works
radixius: so, by these standards, it is somewhat impossible to make an RPG without a battle system...
Grahf: like I said, it depends how much you're going to quibble about the context of the term "battle" itself
radixius: the term itself is situational
radixius: ATTACK is the affirmative choice, RUN AWAY is the corollary.
radixius: (in the previous situation)
Grahf: I get ya
Grahf: to get somewhat philosophical about it, everything breaks down like that
Grahf: even games that aren't considered to have battles
Grahf: like puzzle games and things like that
radixius: differnt flavors of yes or no
Grahf: there's a definable goal in each instance
Grahf: t'would be a strange game that just dumped you in, and then said "go" and then never gave you direction again
Grahf: what can you do. anything you want.
Grahf: is there an end goal
Grahf: nope
Grahf: wait, I think I'm just describing Minecraft now
Grahf: thing is though even that has definable limits
Grahf: don't fucking die to monsters, etc.
radixius: interesting concept
radixius: or rather, interesting idea
radixius: how can someone break the mold without breaking the base concept?
Grahf: what, getting dumped in a game world with no final goal in mind?
radixius: not so much that, no
radixius: but the stupid thing I thought up
radixius: RPG with no battles
radixius: you could go ahead and say, yeah, no enemy encounters
radixius: but what makes you progress?
Grahf: you could make it limited time
Grahf: like each day is a set number of tasks, or set amount of real time
radixius: okay, so we have the limiter
radixius: what makes your character better?
radixius: do these tasks increase a certain substat
radixius: are stats involved?
Grahf: if you're going to make it as "realistic" as possible, then stats can be changed, but only in marginal ways, and all results are kept hidden from the player.
Grahf: you never know how smart, strong, etc you are exactly
Grahf: you can get a general idea
Grahf: but you can't say "Ah, I have 52/100 INT, so I can/can't do this"
Grahf: but you can pick up on subtle cues like "you look over the documents. It takes you a while, but you get the gist of what they're saying." as opposed to "You read the documents, and can't make heads or tails of anything in them."
radixius: I get stupid ideas in my brain from time to time
What a couple of nerds.
General Gaming Chat
Oct 6 2011, 13:00
