[X] My Assistant

It is not disbelief in science but in the scientist. If you get new data that is contrary to the first couple of times you did run it, it means you suck at experiment design and stats - which should be the two most important qualities.

Unfortunately "journalist" think that "experiment design" is the power point presentation used to present results. So they make the bad even worse.

Moreso in the case of the thing making the data is also a moving target, full of confounding variables.

been a hot minute since posting again, that aside I come to this thread today with a riddle of something I picked up for €2 at my local thrift store:
what has a 5 pin din, a switch, a button, 2 neon indicators and runs off mains?

I don't know, but DIN connectors can be used for lots of things. They're pretty robust connectors that handle a decent amount of current and voltage. The general interior layout reminds me of old Western Electric phones; maybe it's a telecom related tool? Telecom stuff used high-ish voltages.

The DIN could even be a breakout connector/adapter for some other form of input. If telecom, it could be because often there was no "RJ" style connector for phones but rather a fixed cable coming from the wall to the phone itself. By using a DIN you could probably carry around two adapters: one for RJ jacks and one for raw wires.

Could it be one of those devices they'd use to detect when you had two phones on a line if you didn't remove the ringer from one of them? So that they could charge you more? IIRC those worked by testing the impedance on a phone line since the ringer introduced a bit of resistance. Mains power would be one way to do it (and I bet those old bell phones would handle it).

I'd need to see how the relays are wired to have any real idea. But that's just a wild and probably totally incorrect guess.

Also, good to see you around again.

See also: [en.wikipedia.org] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringer_equivalence_number

This post has been edited by dragontamer8740: Jul 30 2021, 03:14

It is not disbelief in science but in the scientist. If you get new data that is contrary to the first couple of times you did run it, it means you suck at experiment design and stats - which should be the two most important qualities.

Unfortunately "journalist" think that "experiment design" is the power point presentation used to present results. So they make the bad even worse.

I think it is also because politicians have deliberately conflated science and politics.

"99% of Scientists agree this is the truth"

vs

"the current evidence supports the leading theory to be the most accurate for the moment"


The first sentence is basically:
"The scientists that receive government grants all entirely agree with the governments policy position"
or
"The scientists that entirely agree with the government's policy positions receive government grants"



The weakness of the scientific method is the humans involved running the show. Group think and politics are major human flaws.


100% of living communist scientists agree that white is actually scientifically proven to be black when their government says so.

This post has been edited by EsotericSatire: Jul 30 2021, 01:28

Nice, I was able to read the radio without issue, though the buttons and frequencies in it are rather odd. Also odd: a 48 channel (3 zones of 16) radio with only 8 programmed in. A zone with 5 analog simplex channels, and one with 3 P25 digital simplex channels.

been a hot minute since posting again, that aside I come to this thread today with a riddle of something I picked up for €2 at my local thrift store:
what has a 5 pin din, a switch, a button, 2 neon indicators and runs off mains?


some hints:
the blue transformer on the 'board' creates a 6v:
the red indicator on the front is just to indicate mains power, the switch on the back just toggles mains power.
the 'board' its on is just a piece of plastic, its a glued/taped ratsnest under it.

regretably the din plugged devices predate me a bit, they seem to have had a wide range of uses so I can imagine this being some tester where the second neon indicator on the front would light on button press if the connected whatever would work correctly. but thats as much as I can think of.

quickly measuring on the din:
going from the top pin as ground all others look very 'floaty' nothing of great use.
between the outer pins is ~8v which goes to ~7v on button press
this is probably unrelated nonsense without the intended device connected

any thoughts or ideas on what it could possibly be?

NEW GUESS:
Surge protector and step-down transformer/full wave rectifier for a device with power provided over a DIN. Those four diodes look like a bridge rectifier, potentially. Depends what they connect to.

I suck at transformers and relays, but the fact that that blue box says '50/60hz' and has a primary rating of 230V and a secondary of around 6, my guess is that that's a step-down transformer in there or something (rather than an actual relay like I first thought). That gets passed through the rectifier, and then I'd expect there to be capacitors in it somewhere to "smooth out" the resulting pulsed DC. If there isn't one buried in there my guess is that the caps were inside whatever device connects via the DIN connector, possibly alongside a voltage regulator to "clamp" the voltage down to a reliable level. 7-8V DC would be about perfect for a 7805 regulator to supply 5V to a device. They need to be at least a certain level above their output voltage to work properly, usually around 7.5V DC rated. Of course, your meter might be getting that reading if it's pulsed DC rather than straight DC (the peaks could be far higher; I'd anticipate around 10V DC pulses maybe but I didn't do any real thought to arrive at that number. Just guessing from doubling and subtracting common diode voltage drop).

Of course I'd need to know what mains power is wherever you live to be sure.

Many Commodore computers take power via a DIN, although I am pretty sure this isn't for one of those. Could be some other electronic device though.

This post has been edited by dragontamer8740: Jul 30 2021, 03:38

I am trying to rack my brain where I saw something like that before. I was thinking it may be old computer equipment or for electronics.

hmmmmm.

For some reason I thought it might be for a signal generator for hearing tests / testing audio equipment.

Don't know, been too long since I've been around all the old equipment.

The device seems rather purposefully made, but also made with whatever was suitable and on hand, rather than buying parts for it. The mis-matched indicators and terminal blocks, and use of plastic rather than a perf board is a hint there.
I think the DIN is a red herring, I've used them in stuff before- it just serves as a relatively common connector.
The voltage changing makes me suspect the button controls the relay coil- either to activate it normally or as a test button.

As somebody who's built little arcane boxes like that, it was probally made for a very specific task, and outlived that task.

Thanks for all the guesses, I'm sure somewhere between all of it theres what it used to be used for. now that its mentioned I do see the telecom tech vibes, overusage of term blocks, seemingly unneeded usage of mains, lack of pcb/perfboard(possibly predates it). it was also near some piles of relay boards in the store, but nothing with a matching plug on it or which looked related. next time I'll try asking where they got that stuff from if it was all in one haul or not. but its in the middle of an industrial park so it was most likely just cleaned out of some factories storage without anyone being the wiser of functionality.
(unknown how much of the weirdness is my janky setup but its definitely half wave rectified at 50hz)
as far as the dc goes, it is indeed unsmoothed, so I expect the external smoothing/regulation guess to check out, if any was needed
also rather suspiciously, despite it looking like a full bridge rectifier, no dc is full wave rectified

it'll probably remain a mystery purpous built testing device for which the intended usage will remain unknown unless I somehow run into whoever put it together, thanks for playing though. enjoy a final look at the artisan wiring on the bottom before it goes into my parts bin


This post has been edited by cate_chan: Jul 30 2021, 14:15

Thanks for all the guesses, I'm sure somewhere between all of it theres what it used to be used for. now that its mentioned I do see the telecom tech vibes… seemingly unneeded usage of mains

While phone lines do provide some power, they don't reliably produce AC or DC at similar voltages. That could be one reason for using mains.

It was also near some piles of relay boards in the store, but nothing with a matching plug on it or which looked related. next time I'll try asking where they got that stuff from if it was all in one haul or not. but its in the middle of an industrial park so it was most likely just cleaned out of some factories storage without anyone being the wiser of functionality.

My suspicion is that at the very minimum it was made by soneone who was experienced with telecom stuff and/or cut their teeth on it.
Aren't there any date codes on the parts? It if you think it might be pre-PCB that's how you can check. Thought here was lots of overlap for a while (especially in telecom, again).

(unknown how much of the weirdness is my janky setup but its definitely half wave rectified at 50hz)

Better than what I have to work with :)
My scope has so much ripple in its capacitors that it shows up in the deflection circuitry as if I'm looking at the display under a slow moving wave in a pond.

BTW if you need to connect to a female DIN without a connector, there's a certain size of nail that I've found fits perfectly.

as far as the dc goes, it is indeed unsmoothed, so I expect the external smoothing/regulation guess to check out, if any was needed
also rather suspiciously, despite it looking like a full bridge rectifier, no dc is full wave rectified

Do the other two diodes have any continuity to those same pins on the DIN? Maybe they're separating the two phases for some reason… Potentially to derive negative voltage or something?

it'll probably remain a mystery purpous built testing device for which the intended usage will remain unknown unless I somehow run into whoever put it together, thanks for playing though. enjoy a final look at the artisan wiring on the bottom before it goes into my parts bin

The device seems rather purposefully made, but also made with whatever was suitable and on hand, rather than buying parts for it. The mis-matched indicators and terminal blocks, and use of plastic rather than a perf board is a hint there.

Yep.

I think the DIN is a red herring, I've used them in stuff before- it just serves as a relatively common connector.

Agreed, DIN connectors are one of my old favourites.

The voltage changing makes me suspect the button controls the relay coil- either to activate it normally or as a test button.
As somebody who's built little arcane boxes like that, it was probally made for a very specific task, and outlived that task.

Agreed.


This post has been edited by dragontamer8740: Jul 30 2021, 16:58

Aren't there any date codes on the parts? It if you think it might be pre-PCB that's how you can check. Thought here was lots of overlap for a while (especially in telecom, again).

probably a bit of an exageration, the terminal blocks are very much from pcb era to begin with. sadly enough cant find anything to date it regardless.

Better than what I have to work with (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
My scope has so much ripple in its capacitors that it shows up in the deflection circuitry as if I'm looking at the display under a slow moving wave in a pond.

mine is just off slightly with voltage and theres noise everywhere here (between ground and just holding a probe theres already like 6VAC at all times)

(unknown how much of the weirdness is my janky setup but its definitely half wave rectified at 50hz)

Do the other two diodes have any continuity to those same pins on the DIN? Maybe they're separating the two phases for some reason… Potentially to derive negative voltage or something?

I was really measuring like an idiot before, I shouldve gone with this method to begin with. it yields the following:

also knowing this I had another peak at the rectified signal (which is actually full wave whoops), and found out something interesting related to the button: I press the botton in the second picture

the ac going into that rectifier is ~10v and out is 7~9vdc. this signal also explains why I was measuring the slight dc voltage change on button press before.
now if this helps at all with finding out what the point of this box is, probably not. but its more info than before at least.

EDIT, later notice: swapping mains neutral/live(our plugs fit both ways) slightly alters the signal before button is pressed(more like 10v dc now):

This post has been edited by cate_chan: Jul 30 2021, 20:20

mine is just off slightly with voltage and theres noise everywhere here (between ground and just holding a probe theres already like 6VAC at all times)

Mine may not have had a calibration since 1974, for all I know.

Science fiction often mentions nanomachines, but why not having millimachines or micromachines?
There probably would be plenty of uses even at this scale.
Or does the nano-scale provide some different advantages/conditions significant enough to skip the higher scales?

I wanna be happy in all of my life... that's all

I wanna be happy in all of my life... that's all

I'd recommend not working in tech

Science fiction often mentions nanomachines, but why not having millimachines or micromachines?
There probably would be plenty of uses even at this scale.
Or does the nano-scale provide some different advantages/conditions significant enough to skip the higher scales?

But micro machines already exist?

Of my two ionizers, the one made of passives and diodes, plus a transformer and neon is still doin it's thing. The one made of 5 tiny chinky nodules started making a noise.
Who would've thought that tiny chinese modules that are high frequency and high voltage might fail or just start being audible...

Of my two ionizers, the one made of passives and diodes, plus a transformer and neon is still doin it's thing. The one made of 5 tiny chinky nodules started making a noise.
Who would've thought that tiny chinese modules that are high frequency and high voltage might fail or just start being audible...

they at least got their fully potted high voltage transformers pretty stable, I have one of these shady things going for roughly half a year now:
(IMG:[ae01.alicdn.com] https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H871eba45ed7d4a14a53216cf2692ff9aS.jpg)

Fixing my gel blasters...
That was my last year resolution, before the rona...

i'd get an ionizer except Ozone hurts my lungs.

i'd get an ionizer except Ozone hurts my lungs.

the ozone output of most of the ionizers is very minimal, if you at all ventilate your place or if its more than 1 room it'll never go above natural levels.