[X] My Assistant

Is the black apple pro keyboard that superceded the G3 keyboards any netter? I was eyeing a graphite one, so fairly neutral.

No. I had two of those. They are garbage.
the last really good pre-chiclet boards Apple made were the Apple Extended Keyboard II's, the last decent ones were the AppleDesign keyboardsEdit: those use the same rubber dome design as the pro keyboard and g3 keyboard; ignore that. AEK I is my favorite from them.

I had been eyeing a sun type 6 keyboard, it's USB and has an optional wrist rest.

Type 6 reportedly doesn't feel as good as type 5, but I have not had the opportunity to try a type 6 so I can't really say. Maybe I'm actually thinking of the 7 and the 6 is fine. The 5 was definitely made by Fujitsu, and while it isn't mechanical it feels quite good.
If you're like me, make sure you get the Unix layout for the "full experience," although expect to take a couple days to adapt to the new backspace position.
I can say that my type 5 with a pro micro clone microcontroller is a fine USB keyboard, and that the keys feel nice and smooth.
Click for full size
[i.imgur.com] (IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/BkiIwdpg.jpg)
[i.imgur.com] (IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/kNvmhb5g.jpg)

The G3 doesn't have AltiVec, either.

This post has been edited by dragontamer8740: Jan 5 2021, 15:05

My keyboard taste is probably different, I like scissor key ones with everything in one plane and short key travel. And not mechanical for typing. Mechanical feels great for gaming though. Domes with mushy wiggly keys do bloody suck.

This post has been edited by Wayward_Vagabond: Jan 5 2021, 15:06

My keyboard taste is probably different, I like scissor key ones with everything in one plane and short key travel. And not mechanical for typing. Mechanical feels great for gaming though. Domes with mushy wiggly keys do bloody suck.

I am quite happy with the scissor switches on the powerbook itself, for the record. old (90's) thinkpad keyboards are good too. I've also used a Logitech K800, until one of the scissors broke off. It was okay until that happened.
Key travel on the apple boards you were looking at is not much different than their old extended keyboard.
I'd suggest using one of the overpriced chiclet apple boards if you want to stay "on-brand" and pretty much anything that isn't an Apple pre-chiclet USB keyboard otherwise.
It is my humble opinion that those late 90's through mid-2000's Apple USB keyboards are the absolute worst feeling keyboards I've ever typed on that weren't actually malfunctioning.

I don't game on my boards; I just think Model M's and the Apple Extended board are probably the nicest feeling for typing. Long travel on the M, though (a bit less on the AEK which uses alps switches). I use the Sun board when I want to be quiet or just fancy a change of pace. I really do like its layout, but they also made a more "standard" PC layout board with control in the wrong space (below shift).

back to the powermac, though; if you want to get one and would like advice on anything I've been using my G4 pretty consistently for several months (although for heavyweight stuff I obviously don't; even my Pentium M laptop with integrated graphics beats the pants off my particular G4 for a lot of things).

Edit 2: Looks like testimonials on reddit claim the AppleDesign is less mushy than the USB apple rubber dome non-scissor boards.

Edit 3: Matias sells a scissor board that claims to be like the discontinued full size chiclet wired apple boards. Having used the Apple ones and thinking they feel nice, maybe that'd be an option. [matias.ca] https://matias.ca/aluminum/mac/
There's also a budget version that uses plastic instead of aluminum for the casing [matias.store] https://matias.store/products/fk316
Haven't tried either of those btw.

This post has been edited by dragontamer8740: Jan 5 2021, 15:25

These fellas here, the last gen G3 iMac, slot-loader version.

If I do buy it, need an IRC client that runs on mac os. A 5GHz to wired bridge would also help.

If I do buy it, need an IRC client that runs on mac os. A 5GHz to wired bridge would also help.

Two options come to mind:
1) X11 + old version of xcode + XChat + Fink. I've even got XChat running in WinXP via Cygwin and X11.
2) There's some GNUStep chat program that should build for old Mac OS X as well. I think it was called TalkSoup.
But why are you using OS X at all? I just boot exclusively debian on mine.

I just think you should probably get a G4 unless there's a good reason not to; Altivec and higher speeds are nice. But I do like the aesthetic of those CRT ones.

This post has been edited by dragontamer8740: Jan 5 2021, 15:55

Slightly misplaced nostaglia from spending a lot of time behind one, and just thinking they look neat.

Alpine Edit: Lubuntu 16.04 is the most recent Ubuntu build for PowerPC. I can't find the original image for it, but I found a 'remix' sombody on a mac forum made with some updates, more drivers and applications, etc that should be perfect.

.....

What's the max number of IDE devices I can use on one cable? If I can get 2 hard drives and optical or make it dual boot with grub on one drive..

This post has been edited by Wayward_Vagabond: Jan 5 2021, 20:11

Slightly misplaced nostaglia from spending a lot of time behind one, and just thinking they look neat.

Alpine Edit: Lubuntu 16.04 is the most recent Ubuntu build for PowerPC. I can't find the original image for it, but I found a 'remix' sombody on a mac forum made with some updates, more drivers and applications, etc that should be perfect.

Don't. Just use Debian already. Debian is great.

What's the max number of IDE devices I can use on one cable?

2. Make sure you set the jumper on the "slave" drive.
I think if you want more devices on it your best bet is probably firewire. Unless there's a second header on the motherboard.
Early imac G3's also had a slot that Apple never officially used (dubbed the 'mezzanine slot' but not actually a PMC standard connector) that someone made a SCSI card for at one point. Probably going to be hard to find one now, though, and it's only on the early ones (rev. A and B).
iPro RAID is the card you'd be looking for. Likely to be quite expensive.

The 400MHz and up iMacs should have firewire 400 ports. My 1.33GHz G4 has FW800 as well.

This post has been edited by dragontamer8740: Jan 6 2021, 09:52

These fellas here, the last gen G3 iMac, slot-loader version.

If I do buy it, need an IRC client that runs on mac os. A 5GHz to wired bridge would also help.

They are the reason I hate iMacs.

Plan B: I found a slotloader with video and a case in good shape, but other issues for dirt cheap. Build a modernish SFF pc inside it. I might not end up using the CRT as it's rather bulky, and unsure yet of the picture quality. The tray loaders supppsedly have a normal VGA jumper internally, albeit without EDID lines. I should also be able to use most any laptop optical drive in it.
B450 mini-ITX board with a radeon 550 8GB and 32GB of ram seems a sane starting point. No clue on CPU yet, but that chipset gives me a wide range to pick from.
It comes with an apple keyboard, so I guess I can see how bad it is. Looked like a 1st gen pro from the pics.

Performance goal is to make something more capable than my inspiron 5765 (late 2016 mid-tier laptop). That way the machine will actually be usefull.


Current newegg/amazon prices on new zen CPUs:
1600 $160 150
3100 $184
2600 $190 210
2600X $196 198
3600 $200
3700X $325

This post has been edited by Wayward_Vagabond: Jan 6 2021, 19:12

Plan B: I found a slotloader with video and a case in good shape, but other issues for dirt cheap. Build a modernish SFF pc inside it.

That can turn out well.




WiFi Karen is hilarious. When I was last in the US, I had free wifi everywhere. Loads of people with no passwords or were using WEP.

food

food

Whilst the technology to process food becomes more advanced, the nutritional value seems to decline.

Guidance on what CPU I should go for, and how fast of ram?

Guidance on what CPU I should go for, and how fast of ram?

The beefier the better on CPU. Fastest I think the iMac G3 ever got was 700MHz with the iMac G3 700 SE. As for RAM, you want PC66 for early ones (sub-400mhz) and PC100 for the later ones.

Alternatively, you could get an [en.wikipedia.org] emac, instead; they were aimed at the education market and were the last Apple computers to use CRT's. They use G4 CPU's (meaning they have altivec, which is like SSE or something), and the fastest they got was 1.42GHz. They aren't as colorful, though.
If you go for one, make absolutely sure it doesn't use the nvidia gpu if you want to ever run linux on it. All 1GHz and higher ones should use ATI GPU's, as do some (but not all) 800MHz ones.
By the way, I have a mini-DVI to VGA adapter sitting around from ages ago; if you get a later model that uses mini-DVI I'd be happy to send it to you since I don't need it anymore (indeed, my only apple machine is a Powerbook G4 which has a full dual-link DVI connector).
I've also heard you can upgrade the G3 machines to use G4 CPU's but I have no idea how complicated it is. Looks like it involves expensive daughtercards for the early G3's and surface mount BGA rework on the later ones.
[upload.wikimedia.org] (IMG:[upload.wikimedia.org] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Apple-eMac-FL.jpg/791px-Apple-eMac-FL.jpg)

This post has been edited by dragontamer8740: Jan 6 2021, 22:48

Whilst the technology to process food becomes more advanced, the nutritional value seems to decline.

Depends on how the lobbyists manage to get the federal government to change food definitions. Those definitions regulate what goes into food, maximum filler levels, maximum toxins, maximum pesticide/herbicide levels, as well as what foods can be called by certain names. For example, prior to 2000 bush junior's presidency, cold cuts and packaged delicatessen meat products had a maximum level of roughly 12% water that could be added on top of whatever was already in the foods themselves. After Obama, the definition was changed to allow over 30% water (I forget the exact max limit, so go look it up if you demand it). But that is why cold cuts are so "floppy" now as compared to back then. It's also why a single slice of cold cut meat has a lot less protein than it used to. Certain processing aids aren't required to be listed in the ingredients list, so if companies want to boost the filler content, they find creative ways to utilize that filler material as a processing aid somewhere in the food handling, food processing, or food manufacturing stages.

Another way that the nutritional value declines is due to foods being subdivided into multiple products. Why sell one product when you can sell two or three created out of the same initial food material? For example, canned salmon meat used to have a lot of Omega 3 in them. But the more advanced technology to process food results in a lot of the fish oil being extracted before you get to eat that canned salmon. The fish oil is sold separately for additional profit. Prior to cooking the salmon in the can, a lot of water is also injected into flesh as a processing aid. This allows that water to be included in the "net weight" of the salmon in the can. The protein count has decreased over the decades too. But isn't food technology always used to improve the product for consumers?

Just be aware that the food technology can be fooled. For example, food protein content tests can be fooled:
[en.wikipedia.org] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_adulteration_in_China

I hate smelling a burning metal/plastic smell while my computer is on.
It most likely come from my neighbors or the street outside, but there's always a doubt...and worries (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

<snip>

I'm waiting on a guy I'm buying a cheap tray loader G3 off of. It has some issues, but the CRT displays video and case is in quote good shape. And it's cheap. I was gonna put fairly modern parts inside. I'm gonna look into reusing the CRT, but hard to say yet- It's PSU and analog board take up a lot of space in the chassis, and it may be tricky to interface to.
I'm thinking a mini-ITX board with B450 chipset, a radeon 550 4GB graphics card, 32GB of DDR4 RAM, and a ryzen zen+ or zen2 CPU. I already have a 465W supermicro PSU that should fit the bill. A few posts up, I rattled off the ryzens I can new+retail right now.
Not opposed to doing intel, but their line is harder to make sense of, and seems a decent bit pricier for things that look comparable on paper to me. I am opposed to nvidia graphics though.

Edit:


This post has been edited by Wayward_Vagabond: Jan 7 2021, 00:08

tray loader

Those are the least upgradeable ones. At least get one with firewire or you'll be stuck with terrible network speeds and USB 1.1.

I'm gonna look into reusing the CRT, but hard to say yet- Its PSU and analog board take up a lot of space in the chassis, and it may be tricky to interface to.

You'll need to feed it RGB on the order of 7 volts point to point, IIRC, for the electron guns to display anything worthwhile. I doubt there's a convenient point to feed normal VGA signals (plus TTL sync) into, although if it wasn't an Apple product you might have luck with a service manual.
I'm pretty experienced with making CRT's work, by the way. If you do decide to keep the tube and take a bunch of photos/find me a service diagram, I might be able to tell you where to feed some or all of the signals into. Sync is likely to be pretty simple (I hope); you might even be able to find a point to feed it standard VGA-style RGB. The trickiest thing without a service manual will be figuring out what Apple was doing to tell the CRT circuitry what horizontal frequency to run at (since it supports a few different resolutions, IIRC).

I'm thinking a mini-ITX board with B450 chipset, a radeon 550 4GB graphics card, 32GB of DDR4 RAM, and a ryzen zen+ or zen2 CPU. I already have a 465W supermicro PSU that should fit the bill. A few posts up, I rattled off the ryzens I can new+retail right now.

Ugh, I was getting so excited at the thought of not being the only one using something that isn't x86. If you do that, at least consider sending me the old boards.

Not opposed to doing intel, but their line is harder to make sense of, and seems a decent bit pricier for things that look comparable on paper to me. I am opposed to nvidia graphics though.

I only use older intel stuff really. Whenever I do a new build (probably a few more years off), I'll likely not use NVidia or Intel. Ideally I'll be able to avoid AMD as well (both Intel and AMD have all sorts of probable backdoors and questionable things like Intel's management engine in them).

Losslessly rotated your pic, btw. it was displaying wrong in my browser.
(IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/q9B7qf0.jpg)
Nice interior. Not sure what car it is but it's of a good vintage.

This post has been edited by dragontamer8740: Jan 7 2021, 06:01

'90 Ford ranger, body is kinda rusty but interior is clean. Included is period correct blanket seat cover. My phone makes the file size like 3x if I rotate the image, and is tempermental with picture orientations.

I'm gonna at least try to test all the functions of the hardware I can, then put the bits I don't want on eBay as buy it now/best offer. Whenever I get to that point I'll drop you link and if you say something in the 'comment to seller' they're yours for postage. 233MHz, 98MB RAM, rev A board I'm told.

I know slot loaders do use normal VGA level RGB/Hs/Vs but with one big caveat: you need an arduino, RPi or somesuch to make it work. There's two data lines you have to send a handshake to (no reply or request to listen for though), a couple of pins to tie together, and EDID data to send out.

I tried booting it up last night- it made a nice chime and the screen crackled. It sat and thought for a minute, then the tube lit up and it showed me the infamous question mark folder, though the picture was misaligned.

I also tried the keyboard. Has a nice weight to it, and the internal hub is neat. Then I tried pecking at the keys. I now understand why you dissed it, it's awful. Glad I got the entire system for what people are charging for clean keyboards. The mouse is very strange- the two little white things are a red herring, which I had assumed were buttons. You literally press the mouse to click it's only button.

As for having another x86 system, it is a bit bland. But powerpc, especially 32 bit 7xx stuff seems abandoned by still maintained software. And a dumb rebuild will give me something practical for daily use stuff. My toughbook is i686 if I'm not mistaken, and still need to reassemble the 50MHz 486 laptop. That one is a means to an end instead of to use it though.

This post has been edited by Wayward_Vagabond: Jan 7 2021, 13:51

work