[X] My Assistant

Hmmmm, thanks for one vote, but I exprected more than that, so I'm a bit disappointed.
(Even though higher tier award bonuses don't have much practical benefit to me)

I've put a lot of time and effort into scripts, but it wasn't enough for others.

The latest version I'm working on has changed a lot, but I don't know how much more I have to work to satisfy others, so I think it's better to stop here.

sssss2, I like you. I've nominated you year after year for your HVUtils support. When I discussed the MVP system with Tenboro back at the start, it was exactly people like you that I was hoping to get awards - because I know it takes a lot of time, a lot of effort, and someone who cares about HV a lot to make HVUtils.

At the time, if I remember right, you were just finishing getting holy prof to 600 and switching to work on your dark prof. I was grinding prof too. I remember being worried at the time you might be offended if it was only a bronze award, so I discussed with the other HV mods at the time to make sure they didn't forget about you in their lists. I have always felt sorry that you got stuck with silver while I was getting gold, both because I didn't feel I'd been any more valuable to the community than you, and because I didn't like the idea of having a game advantage over you - it's been fun to have a quiet, calculating rival to compete with.

But I think you're being kind of an asshole about it. How many people do you think could have nominated you? Those MVP awards are just meant to be for a handful of us to say a few thanks for the year.

One thing I do think has been maybe done poorly is internal votes which are separate to the quota of general populace nominations and are mostly meant as a way to cross-check activity and contributions among ourselves so Tenboro doesn't have to know exactly what's going on for every single person all the time. This kind of oversight is why we had limits to our number of nominations anyway - because it gets increasingly hard to verify whether these awards are being given for good reasons. We give a brief context when nominating people, and for what it's worth, this is what I said about you for the last few years:

sssss2 - Author of 'HVUtils', a comprehensive out-of-battle interface overhaul with management tools such as mass-salvaging, mass-shrining, mass-monlab upgrades, better mooglemails, better inventories and more. I was a little discontented with his choice to withhold the latest update to the general public (it was only released to those who sold him trophies at some point in the past year or two) but he told me he plans on releasing it publicly soon anyway, the first release to supporters was just early access as a thank-you. Without Monsterbation the game would be slow, but without HVUtils, I don't know if I would play Hentaiverse anywhere near as much.

Your public attitude about HVUtils releases (and HV in general) at the time remained a point of contention at the time of the next MVP awards, so again I argued your case:

sssss2 - he did withhold an update on HVUtils last year trying to get people to sell him trophies to unlock it, but seems to have gone back to normal now with continued support for it, and we still use his data for answering a hell of a lot of questions

And then this year:

sssss2 - continued maintenance of HVUtils, a significant interface overhaul script

Some other comments:

+3: Nezu (867559)
+3: Noni (2977124)

Maybe if you didn't like each other, sssss2 would get more than +1

If I'm honest with you, I don't think Noni actually does like me most of the time. But the MVP awards are separate for 'mods' (or whatever you want to call them), specifically because of concerns like these. People working on the same things are always going to be highly visible to each other. That said, it might be a bit hamfisted to announce mod MVPs at all, if it looks like we're patting each other on the back for janitorial tasks. FYI, I nominated Noni for running auctions and events throughout the year in addition to his permanently active Q&A presence in the community.

It's a good system, just like the government. So you don't have to deprive yourself, right? What would moderators do without awards...

Strip me of a handful of bonus daily meaningless internet points, and an exp modifier I'm not using with all my used profs at 600 - see how much it deprives me of...

[...]

I'd rather not be compared to these kinds of men over my wish to show a little gratitude at the turning of the new years, but I guess some people can really see the worst in anything and everything.

Another option: Update the cost of adopt-a-server slots, to the point where they're competitive with other hosting. Players donate credits -> script author trades them for crypto donations and buys slots -> script author climbs the H@H toplist.

Adopt-a-server reward adjustment is Planned In Time, last I time I heard about it.

FWIW, I also voted for noni and nezu. I also voted for a non-"mod" HV player, who also contributed a lot (and I'd personally argue he deserved more than +1, but he hasn't complained about it). It is my personal bias as a predominantly vig member, but I value those contributions higher than hv related ones, so those get more of my votes. There are people who spent the entire year doing cleanup and getting involved in discussion and debate, qc'ing, etc, but not enough to get on a specific toplist (this is much more common than you think.), who also only got a +1, and also haven't complained.

And for transparency, one of the people who contested (I can't remember if I did in PM or internally off hand) sssss2 the other year was me, since as far as I am concerned, he decided the reward for his work himself through the early access trophy trades, for a script that was broken for everyone else in the meantime. I don't consider that as contributing to the hv community as a whole.

I'd rather not be compared to these kinds of men over my wish to show a little gratitude at the turning of the new years, but I guess some people can really see the worst in anything and everything.

I'm not sure i wanted to continue this discussion, but I find it strange that you are trying to shame me for the way I see the situation. We have a vote in which a very small number of people have the right to vote and they vote for each other. And that's what it looks like. If it upsets you that the men in the picture are unpleasant, just imagine pleasant men giving each other awards (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by sparroff: Jan 2 2023, 21:38

I find it strange that you are trying to shame me for the way I see the situation.

But I mean, is it really that different from what you posted previously? He is just saying how he sees the situation, just like you! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well, actually, I guess the difference is that this time, the target of the post is you instead of someone else. My bad, sorry for missing this part.

We have a vote in which a very small number of people have the right to vote and they vote for each other. And that's what it looks like.

The vote is set up with separate quotas for voting for other "mods" (i.e. everyone with mod forum access) and "non-mods" (i.e. everyone without). In other words, they can't trade a vote for a "mod" for a vote on a "non-mod".

If someone wants to describe it as compulsory nepotism or whatever, that's up to them, but this is the only real way I could think of to make the system work without just straight out handing out free awards to all the "mods".

If someone wants to describe it as compulsory nepotism or whatever, that's up to them, but this is the only real way I could think of to make the system work without just straight out handing out free awards to all the "mods".

What's the downside straight out handing out free awards to all the "mods"? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If you don't think everyone deserves an award - user voting for the best moderators looks good too. But voting for each other looks comical

This post has been edited by sparroff: Jan 2 2023, 23:23

What's the downside straight out handing out free awards to all the "mods"? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If you don't think everyone deserves an award - user voting for the best moderators looks good too. But voting for each other looks comical (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm not sure what problem you would fix by changing it to just be handed out automatically. It wouldn't free up any points to hand out to other users.

The main problem with user voting is that it has a lot of overhead to manage, and is vulnerable to sock-puppeting and campaigning in general. This is supposed to be a simple system to complement the toplists, not a whole other beast to manage.

We have a vote in which a very small number of people have the right to vote and they vote for each other. And that's what it looks like.

it looks in a wrong way. just check for yourself the difference between toplists and award winners to realize it: this vote thing is just a small handful of points. and without them, maybe some people who are merely confined in HV section (let's remember this is a gallery site, first and foremost!) wouldn't even have had an award to begin with. but probably that's too hard to see...

another thing, do we really have to argue that some of the people in that list are gallery mods, and gallery mods are the first to do something for this site? i mean, they were (cherry)picked for this very reason...



and last but not the least, thanks for all the things sssss2 helped with. but +1 to the fact that "close access in order to have more trophies" isn't exactly contributing to the community.
but at least it was at market prices, so it cannot be called "blackmailing"...

user voting for the best moderators looks good too

"dude closed my rival's shop! wonderful! +1 to my best mod!"

"dude billed my bid as invalid just because i was two hours late. ewwwww! +1 to worst mod!"

sorry, but i don't see this as very feasible... you should also teach them how to vote, hearing late users' whines etc etc. thanks but no thanks

This is supposed to be a simple system to complement the toplists, not a whole other beast to manage.

without even mentioning that when people are involved, you cannot betatest it if not while it's already working. what people miss (because it's not public) is that system is tweaked and improving year after year

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Jan 2 2023, 23:28

I'm not sure what problem you would fix by changing it to just be handed out automatically. It wouldn't free up any points to hand out to other users.

It wouldn't be offensive for users to be on the same list as moderators who gave each other +3 votes, even if they are essentially different votes (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Just less annoyances at nothing

The main problem with user voting is that it has a lot of overhead to manage, and is vulnerable to sock-puppeting and campaigning in general. This is supposed to be a simple system to complement the toplists, not a whole other beast to manage.

ok

sorry, but i don't see this as very feasible... you should also teach them how to vote, hearing late users' whines etc etc. thanks but no thanks

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” The statement that users should not be allowed to vote because they will vote wrong I also think is a bit snobbish

This post has been edited by sparroff: Jan 2 2023, 23:40

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”

Democracy on the internet boils down to the guy who can get away with most sockpuppet accounts winning.

There's reason we stopped having user votes on banners, and why you have to be an active tagger to vote on disputed tags, and why mod power exists in the first place.

And, again: it's (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) a (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) lot (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) of (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) work (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) to (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) manage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) a (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) system (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) where (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) users (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) vote (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) on (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) things.

Another thing is that democracy only works when folks aren't being unprofessional and driven by emotion all the time, which umm... well.

I still think the idea I gave is good.

If moderators were separated in another category, there would be no such complaint that we are debating now.

Similarly, if the list of nominations were sectorized, this would ensure that all areas of the site would be contemplated (to a greater or lesser extent).

I still think the idea I gave is good.

If moderators were separated in another category, there would be no such complaint that we are debating now.

Similarly, if the list of nominations were sectorized, this would ensure that all areas of the site would be contemplated (to a greater or lesser extent).

I agree, but:

They are already separated, in the nomination stage.

They're not categorized into groups exactly because the MVP system is meant to catch some users whose contributions are hard to categorize.

Maybe next year I'll abstain re: awards, if that hurts fewer feelings. I can't exactly stop people paying a small amount of dollars on H@H servers or dumping some junk comments to fish for upvotes, but maybe they deserve the whistle more than people who annually maintain tools & utilities. lol

This post has been edited by Nezu: Jan 3 2023, 04:29

Im sorry if this is a silly question but I cant find the answer anywhere:

Why are some items on the Equipment Shop red and pink?

Im sorry if this is a silly question but I cant find the answer anywhere:

Why are some items on the Equipment Shop red and pink?

The equipment's level is higher than your level, so you can't use it now.

I think that that lighter red means that the equipment is within your soulfuse range, but I'm not certain of that.

Im sorry if this is a silly question but I cant find the answer anywhere:

Why are some items on the Equipment Shop red and pink?

I think that that lighter red means that the equipment is within your soulfuse range, but I'm not certain of that.

I can confirm this : lighter red = soulfusable range (i.e. you could equip them, but only if you spend soul fragments to soulfuse'em). Deep red = you cannot do anything (until you go up in levels enough)

Also MIND YOU, these questions should be posted in the "Ask the Experts" thread.

I agree, but:

They are already separated, in the nomination stage.

They're not categorized into groups exactly because the MVP system is meant to catch some users whose contributions are hard to categorize.

Maybe next year I'll abstain re: awards, if that hurts fewer feelings. I can't exactly stop people paying a small amount of dollars on H@H servers or dumping some junk comments to fish for upvotes, but maybe they deserve the whistle more than people who annually maintain tools & utilities. lol

I had already understood by the explanations given that the nomination process is separated. I think I didn't express myself right.

As the final list of nominations is currently presented, it gives the impression that moderators are occupying the vacancy that could be from an ordinary user. That's why I suggested that all moderators should be awarded in a separate category as a reward for the work done throughout the year. Thus, the list of nominations would contain only ordinary users that stood out in the different areas of the site.

Since the amount of moderators is small, I see no reason not to reward all equally. As has been said, the bonuses granted will not affect their lives on the site, will not affect the operation or the economy of the site. So I don't see problems with it. It would be a symbolic act of thanks.

In addition, I said nominations should be made separated by sector to ensure that all areas could be contemplated. For example, 80% of nominations would be for galleries (and everything related to them), and 20% with HV. In this situation, you and Noni would be responsible exclusively to nominate the 20% that would receive +3, +2 and +1. It would be a fixed quota. I thought about it precisely because a moderator did not know all users in all areas.

I also agree with you about this issue involving sssss2. But I think those who spend the whole year helping others, especially in the "Ask The Experts!" thread, should be nominated with +3 and even deserve something more. I say this because, after all, all toplists are exclusive to the galleries sector. And as has been said, the distribution of bonus to a small number of players will not affect the economy or operation of the site.

Some random thoughts:

I think that the real problem here is not how the mods distribute the votes. Even if the mods are allowed to give all their votes to sssss2, there will still be some other people who spent a lot of time contributing to the community but are uncredited simply because there aren't enough votes in the community.

Maybe one possible solution is to allow a few more people in the community to vote (with possibly lower weight)? For example, reaching tower floor 100 grants you a +0.2 vote per season. That should hopefully eliminate the sockpuppet account issue because it takes hundreds of hours to reach floor 100, making it very infeasible to grind an award yourself, while introducing more votes to the community so that more people can be credited for their work.

Because reaching Tower floor 100 doesn't indicate having actual bad judgement, just crippling OCD and absolutely nothing else in your life to do.