[X] My Assistant

And the point about "if peerlesses can be upgraded, upgrading legendaries is worthless" stays.
At that point the cost will be just stupid.

Don't get me wrong, I agree (sort of). Peerless+ would just be replacing the old infinite grind with a new one, rather than making the game's completion goals any more... reasonable and human.

I do not think Tenboro is decided on adding upgrading to peerlesses - it's just technically possible and would use the same code, so it's a consideration.

I do not think Tenboro is decided on adding upgrading to peerlesses - it's just technically possible and would use the same code, so it's a consideration.

Why we have peerless cores then?

Why we have peerless cores then?

It would probably be like a High-Grade material (and the Legendary Core would be like a Mid-Grade material). In this case, you would need "X" Peerless Cores and "Y" Legendary Cores to upgrade an attribute (with X and Y varying according to the difference between the current value of the attribute and its maximum value). (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

OR

A Peerless Core would be equivalent to 10 (or 50 or 100 ???) Legendary Core. In this case, for example, if you needed 500 Legendary Cores to make an attribute reach the maximum value, you could do the same with 50 Peerless Cores (or less). Or a combination of them. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Well, all this is just a guess. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

This post has been edited by Basara Nekki: Jan 31 2022, 06:35

Why we have peerless cores then?

According to the notes, they're (to be) usable to improve stats without a credit cost. I don't know if this will be equivalent to a single improvement using legendary cores, or if it'll be more.

This post has been edited by Nezu: Jan 31 2022, 10:45

Up to now, the highest price for an item sold at auction is 700m, and dozens of people are spending more than 200m without any hesitation.

That's just madness.
Prices are very often dictated by the heat of the moment.

The heat of the moment definitely isn't a meter to define a fixed cost that will apply to any item and not just the expensive ones.

Also keep in mind that a lot of items lost value with time. It's just normal.
More time the game is online, more items in circulation, better gear everyone has, the less gear everyone has will be valued.
The prices will eventually fall for everything.
At one point the barons paying 500m will have a full set and will just have no need to spend those millions anymore.
At that point those peerlesses may end costing way less, since the non barons are unlikely to buy them for that much.

Have you ever bought such a valuable thing, or have you ever looked up its price?

[attachembed=161213]

This is the auction record for 7 years: only 7 willow staffs and a few dozen pieces of radiant and charged phase armors.
* I haven't seen any tradeable PHOH or PDWD, at least on the forum.

While the supply (and trading) of the matching peerless is extremely rare,
the supply of credits continues, the total amount of credits in the market as a whole steadily increases, and the number of (super-) rich people increases as well.
Occasionally a new one will appear on the auction, but the number of competitors and the price will not decrease.

Still, that means a rapier with decent stats would probably cost above 50m to "peerlessize"
That is quite above the value.

Most peerlesses aren't even worth 1m
A lot of peerlesses that are "well wanted" by people cost between 10 and 50m (rapiers, power armors, elemental charged/radiant, etc).

I want to pay 500k to upgrade my Legendary jade leather boots of warding to Peerless.
What? 10m?
It's absurd!

Why would anyone ever consider spending 100m to make one.

If you think the cost is unresonable, don't upgrade it.


Well, as I quoted above, the most serious problem of the new system is that this system will not take into account market value of the item when defining its upgrade cost.
But, if the cost is too low for that reason, everyone will have PHOH and a lot of people will have an entire peerless set and some rich will have all peerless equip.

If you don't think this is a problem because everyone is happy, okay, I won't say anything more.

This post has been edited by sssss2: Jan 31 2022, 14:22

It would probably be like a High-Grade material (and the Legendary Core would be like a Mid-Grade material). In this case, you would need "X" Peerless Cores and "Y" Legendary Cores to upgrade an attribute (with X and Y varying according to the difference between the current value of the attribute and its maximum value). (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

OR

A Peerless Core would be equivalent to 10 (or 50 or 100 ???) Legendary Core. In this case, for example, if you needed 500 Legendary Cores to make an attribute reach the maximum value, you could do the same with 50 Peerless Cores (or less). Or a combination of them. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Well, all this is just a guess. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

I doubt it. For the simple reason that we can already see (and it's also written by 10b himself in the first thread post) that Peerless cores are not tradeable, while Leg. cores are. Add this to what he said regarding the new system won't (probably) make anything existing obsolete, and all this points to what ?
This means (to me) that the two must serve quite different purposes.

My idea is :

- Leg cores to improve Leg stats (eventually making them Peerless equivalents).

- While Peer cores will be usable only on Peerlesses, not to improve their stats (max stat remains so) but to add some potency-like effect (much like IW potencies)

Anyway, the whole shenaningan is mainly a move to make rich players with a lot of credits/haths sitting idly waiting for something to use them on, to find a new employ for said credits that is both
(1) interesting enough to make them want to spend those credits
(2) costly enough to not compete unfairly with existing methods to obtain the same result

All I said is IMHO, of course ; no inside trading (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by mundomuñeca: Jan 31 2022, 14:54

this system will not take into account market value of the item when defining its upgrade cost.
But, if the cost is too low for that reason, everyone will have PHOH and a lot of people will have an entire peerless set and some rich will have all peerless equip.

Pretty sure many many players (20+? 50+?) have enough cash flow to afford 500m/1000m for upgrading to a PHOH, still make these peerless equip no longer rare

Proper way to set barrier is exponential cost, say 1m from 10%-20%, 200m from 90% to 99%, 500m from 99% to 100%, 1000m from 100% to inf, regardless of equip type.

But this kind of upgrade cost will certainly, redefine the equip cost in reverse and capped the majority players upgrading to best cost/performance level instead of going for a peerless equip.

I doubt it. For the simple reason that we can already see (and it's also written by 10b himself in the first thread post) that Peerless cores are not tradeable, while Leg. cores are. Add this to what he said regarding the new system won't (probably) make anything existing obsolete, and all this points to what ?

I know that Peerless Cores will not be tradeable. What will occur, obviously, is a larger search for equipment, just targeting your cores, making the whole process more expensive. I believe it will not be possible to reach the maximum values only using Legendary Cores. At some point you will need to use a certain amount of Peerless Cores.

Pretty sure many many players (20+? 50+?) have enough cash flow to afford 500m/1000m for upgrading to a PHOH, still make these peerless equip no longer rare

Proper way to set barrier is exponential cost, say 1m from 10%-20%, 200m from 90% to 99%, 500m from 99% to 100%, 1000m from 100% to inf, regardless of equip type.

But this kind of upgrade cost will certainly, redefine the equip cost in reverse and capped the majority players upgrading to best cost/performance level instead of going for a peerless equip.

Well, it does not necessarily have to be in credits. It can be by the amount of Cores (linear or exponential).

...

Only two radiant freyr pieces at auction ever, and they're both robes...

The lottery continues to be one of the most reliable ways to get good equips. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

But, if the cost is too low for that reason, everyone will have PHOH and a lot of people will have an entire peerless set and some rich will have all peerless equip.

If you don't think this is a problem because everyone is happy, okay, I won't say anything more.

I don't really think this is a problem; it's fine (and healthy) for a game to be completable at some point.

I think up to 150m would be fine - the average case would take someone around a month or two of daily arenas to earn enough to upgrade it. And that means a full gear set could take most of a year, which is... a pretty long time, for most games.

Pretty sure many many players (20+? 50+?) have enough cash flow to afford 500m/1000m for upgrading to a PHOH, still make these peerless equip no longer rare

There's already more than 30 players with a PHOH; few things are as rare as they seem from only reading the forums.

This post has been edited by Nezu: Feb 1 2022, 06:13

I don't really think this is a problem; it's fine (and healthy) for a game to be completable at some point.

I think up to 150m would be fine - the average case would take someone around a month or two of daily arenas to earn enough to upgrade it. And that means a full gear set could take most of a year, which is... a pretty long time, for most games.
There's already more than 30 players with a PHOH; few things are as rare as they seem from only reading the forums.

Well, certainly there will be much much more TRADABLE PHOH supply to the market & eventually makes peerless grand Holy mage build appear everywhere in the forum, given that the cost is only ~150m, or even ~500m to turn a trash LHOH into PHOH. And that's probably what sssss2 are concerned about "peerless", Peerless Hallowed Oak Staff of Heimdall will become an Average Hallowed Oak Staff of Heimdall that anyone can get.

But I am definitely fine with that (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

This post has been edited by cornandbeans: Feb 1 2022, 08:02

Well, certainly there will be much much more TRADABLE PHOH supply to the market & eventually makes peerless grand Holy mage build appear everywhere in the forum, given that the cost is only ~150m, or even ~500m to turn a trash LHOH into PHOH. And that's probably what sssss2 are concerned about "peerless", Peerless Hallowed Oak Staff of Heimdall will become an Average Hallowed Oak Staff of Heimdall that anyone can get.

But I am definitely fine with that (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

God forbid the game isn't impossible to complete for anyone except for those who fight with real life money, I guess.

This post has been edited by Nezu: Feb 1 2022, 08:29

This game is very easy to complete.

Just pretend you own Peerless Hallowed Oak Staff of Heimdall, or whatever equipments you want. Anyone can make a text screenshot of themselves with any equipment as many credits as they want. Then imagine it's true, and quit playing or mostly just talk on the forums about hentai and anime.

Maybe someone should make a fake HentaiVerse server, where we can all make any equipments we want, and smash monsters and feel good! Then we can get on with our lives and play a game with better graphics and music.

We know peerless gear are so priceless that FoSer will overpay 2x-6x Shrine Value to buy Trophies and shrine for it, which secured the majority players' income currently.

If any types of peerless gear can be priced at, let's say 150m each, I doubted if they would rather spend 1000m on trophies and gamble for an UNTRADABLE soulbound peerless, than just buying a trash equip and upgrade to a TRADABLE peerless?

And we will see how badly the trophy market will crash, which will eventually damage most non-FoS players' income, making them poorer to complete their whatsoever game goals.

This post has been edited by cornandbeans: Feb 1 2022, 12:15

If any types of peerless gear can be priced at, let's say 150m each, I doubted if they would rather spend 1000m on trophies and gamble for an UNTRADABLE soulbound peerless, than just buying a trash equip and upgrade to a TRADABLE peerless?

Who said it'd be tradeable?

Who said it'd be tradeable?

They won't be. You'll have to soulbind equipment before you can improve their stats.

Who said it'd be tradeable?

Latest official update didn't mentioned about improving base stat will bound equip so guess it won't? Maybe it should.

They won't be. You'll have to soulbind equipment before you can improve their stats.

Cool.

This post has been edited by cornandbeans: Feb 1 2022, 13:37

Oo nice twist. This then truly makes peerless cores obtained via lottery tied to their winner as well (they can't use them to upgrade some legendary, then sell the resulting equipment).

This also provides some sort of partial weak buffer on the lower value of currently existing peerlesses, for at least they still will be uniquely tradeable. The question of the year is still going to be exactly how much it costs to upgrade a legendary into a peerless.

Peerless 1H gear usually goes for 25m (rapiers, armors) to 100m (demonic/hallowed rapiers) to 200m (savage slaughter armors). Peerless mage gear, refer to sssss2 table above.

This might all be for naught if some new fighting styles or game modes are introduced to lessen the attractiveness of 1H and/or mage. (Also, many other melee styles are underrated in my opinion, but at the peerless level I've noticed that gears corresponding to such styles still tend to fetch prices comparable to 1H).

This twist might also encourage a few players to leave their equipment at the Peerless level without further improvement, so the amount of possible improvement should be considered carefully.

This post has been edited by BlueWaterSplash: Feb 1 2022, 22:06

I don't really think this is a problem; it's fine (and healthy) for a game to be completable at some point.

I think up to 150m would be fine - the average case would take someone around a month or two of daily arenas to earn enough to upgrade it. And that means a full gear set could take most of a year, which is... a pretty long time, for most games.

This seems pretty good, considering how we already have 6 different sets for mages alone.

The cost might be too much for some, but I think it's fair price if you'll never have to switch it for an upgrade, much like I didn't mind spending 200m for my Dæmon Duality IX, seeing as it's a single time expense for a permanent increase in power.

While I'll simply go after a PDWD for starters, as 100m+ credits for a single item is still quite draining for me, I'm sure there will be plenty of people going after multiple Peerless secondary/backup sets, even if it's just for some casual arenas or for smoother proficiency grinding.

If 2H ever became viable at endgame, I'll definitely aim for a 2H/Niten set too, as cutting everything to pieces with a big sword is my ideal power fantasy, even if being a mage has grown on me over the years.

Hopefully the changes to potencies can bring more life to other playstyles, as just having maging or 1h to pick from is pretty bland.

This post has been edited by Kinights: Feb 2 2022, 06:58

If 2H ever became viable at endgame, I'll definitely aim for a 2H/Niten set too, as cutting everything to pieces with a big sword is my ideal power fantasy, even if being a mage has grown on me over the years.

I actually thought about what 2h needed to become viable, and I don't see it happening. Because the necessary changes would be drastic like:
-Double 2h weapon ADB
-quadruple 2h proficiency ADB (anyone ever wondered why 2h of all things has the lowest attack gain from their proficiency? Of course it's gonna be awful)

... and yes. At the same time. I STILL think 2h would be pretty meh with that because of the parry of enemies. But at least it would probably be semi viable like this. Squishy + heavy hitting. To give an example what these changes would do to my not upgraded 2h light build with a mace, assuming my current 341 proficiency: 5862 attack -> 10761 attack
With upgrades and proficiency more fitting to my level, this would sit around 13k-14k. Compare that to 1h and some upgrades at 9.3k for me. With the 1h perma spirit stance not being there for 2h, values like this would probably be needed for some kind of usefulness.


Still, I seriously doubt such a HUGE jump in strength would come. It's probably more likely for some fundamental things changing, like domino chance becoming 100%, better anti parry, domino strikes being able to generate overcharge, apply strikes and so on. That way adb wouldn't need such a huge buff. But even then it'd need a pretty big one.


2h is in a tough spot. Powering it up too much would also make it way too good early in the game perhaps. Though looking on how fast that part goes by, that shouldn't really matter. For a late game pfudor viability, a pretty good set of equip would always be necessary. Unlike with 1h, which can get by with a good shield and rapier.

This post has been edited by killi890: Feb 2 2022, 09:46