[X] My Assistant

FWIW, I am planning on adding one more thing to that title, maybe next patch.

Ah, he's complaining about evade cause 1H players want to minimize evade/speed to get the most counters possible.

(Actually, you could shunt around the order in which evade and block happen to satisfy 1H players a bit? Parry could potentially happen before evade too in its current state, although I don't know if you plan to ever change it to be more like resist.)

FWIW, I am planning on adding one more thing to that title, maybe next patch.

Better be something good.
Or I'll deadass start using the Lord title (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

This post has been edited by Juggernaut Santa: Jul 23 2021, 12:20

Ah, he's complaining about evade cause 1H players want to minimize evade/speed to get the most counters possible.

Hmm, I see. Yeah, that's probably a thing that should be addressed in general, we don't really want those stats to be detrimental..

Hmm, I see. Yeah, that's probably a thing that should be addressed in general, we don't really want those stats to be detrimental..

The titles don't give Magic Damage, only Physical Damage, right?
And I guess Evade was added to give something to mages too (and I guess other melee styles, but let's be honest, 3-4% doesn't add much if you already have some base evade, while it does the baddy to 1h where base evade is basically 0...).

Remove Evade and add Magic Damage instead, to the titles, ez.
Or to make it balanced without adding damage to mages but still giving some tankiness, swap Evade for Parry + Resist (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Spoiler text - Highlight to read...

jfy, 4% block works too...I wouldn't mind it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Having a title tree to choose from is also an option. If you add a title that completely nullifies evade and atkspd, I would take it even with 0% bonus damage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by Juggernaut Santa: Jul 23 2021, 12:40

The titles don't give Magic Damage, only Physical Damage, right?
And I guess Evade was added to give something to mages too (and I guess other melee styles, but let's be honest, 3-4% doesn't add much if you already have some base evade, while it does the baddy to 1h where base evade is basically 0...).

It applies to all damage, not just physical, if I recall. (The wiki needs to be updated on that...)

A friend tested this and found no difference to spell damage, so I remembered wrongly.

This post has been edited by Nezu: Jul 23 2021, 14:39

It applies to all damage, not just physical, if I recall. (The wiki needs to be updated on that...)

I thought it never applied to magical damage. This used to be listed as a bug on the wiki but then Tenboro said it was working as intended.

I thought it never applied to magical damage. This used to be listed as a bug on the wiki but then Tenboro said it was working as intended.

Noni should know, if I remember right, he tested it some time last year just to confirm for the wiki...

'Working as intended' is kind of ambiguous there... well, maybe he's still lurking and might give us an answer. Otherwise I'll find out myself before updating the wiki titles page.

Remove Evade and add Magic Damage instead, to the titles, ez.
Or to make it balanced without adding damage to mages but still giving some tankiness, swap Evade for Parry + Resist (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But I like the evade and having as much of it as possible and resist doesn't do much for light users (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

In any case, here is the monster composition of the Lv 400 arena:

Rounds 01-31: 1 Schoolgirl + 3 Normal Monsters
Rounds 32-47: 2 Schoolgirls + 3 Normal Monsters
Rounds 48-63: 2 Schoolgirls + 4 Normal Monsters
Rounds 64-84: 3 Schoolgirls + 5 Normal Monsters
Rounds 85-94: 3 Schoolgirls + 6 Normal Monsters
Round 95: 6 beefy Normal Monsters

Lv 500 arena:

Rounds 01-33: 1 Schoolgirl + 4 Normal Monsters
Rounds 34-52: 2 Schoolgirls + 4 Normal Monsters
Rounds 53-66: 2 Schoolgirls + 5 Normal Monsters
Rounds 67-71: 3 Schoolgirls + 5 Normal Monsters
Rounds 72-90: 3 Schoolgirls + 6 Normal Monsters
Rounds 91-99: 3 Schoolgirls + 7 Normal Monsters
Round 100: Ponies

Still no 4 Schoolgirl rounds. Should've been 4+6 for the last 9 rounds before bosses.
It's just 9 more SG out of hundreds.

In any case wow, the Pony round was really something.
Never went even remotely close to sparking though.
And I haven't even used Haste nor Shadow Veil (except misclick) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
It only took a whole eternity and like 10 cannons before everyone was finally dead (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

But I like the evade and having as much of it as possible and resist doesn't do much for light users (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

With the base Evade you already have from Shade, that 4% won't even increase your total Evade by 0.1% (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Going from Godslayer/Dovahkiin to Ponyslayer (+1%) bumped my Evade from 4.4% to 4.5%...you can imagine how much it would influence the way higher base evade of Light Armor style (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
(it may not be much, but it's too much, I want it gone (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) )

This post has been edited by Juggernaut Santa: Jul 23 2021, 13:18

Rounds 32-47: 2 Schoolgirls + 3 Normal Monsters
Rounds 48-63: 2 Schoolgirls + 4 Normal Monsters

It's 32-42 and 43-63.

It's 32-42 and 43-63.

You may be right. I was distracted a little bit from how much easy it was.
Though I am quite sure the error could be between 63 and 64. Fairly sure that 2+3 lasted longer than round 42 (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

With the base Evade you already have from Shade, that 4% won't even increase your total Evade by 0.1% (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Going from Godslayer/Dovahkiin to Ponyslayer (+1%) bumped my Evade from 4.4% to 4.5%...you can imagine how much it would influence the way higher base evade of Light Armor style (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
(it may not be much, but it's too much, I want it gone (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) )

It doesn't give you very much evade because the burden from your heavy armor eliminates most of it. For light users, that would be more like 1-2% extra evade. As a mage, my evade goes from 58% to 59.2% with the +3% from godslayer. People spend tons of credits to get those kinds of gains. Removing the increased evade would only help you by a microscopic amount, but it would hurt everyone who doesn't rely on heavy armor.

After beating (or more accurately: "somehow surviving") the first tower floor on PFUDOR (32) I can definitely say, this is where Isekai ends for me. As a casual, it becomes much too tedious to continue any further. At least I'll get one status point out of it. Yay, I guess!?

This post has been edited by Nicosai: Jul 23 2021, 20:20

I'm on mobile only for a while, but I managed to cleat the post game content arena. Those buggers on last round are tough! Dark mage isn't particularly strong against those, so it seems. Sadly, I can't do much testing on mobile, I haven't cleared the last pony arena yet. Maybe tomorrow.

Ps: still rank 1 on tower, still even using club of slaughter+rapier of balance, which is less defensive than my shortswordof slaughter + rapier of nimble. 52% parry vs 74%. So still going strong

This post has been edited by Noni: Jul 23 2021, 21:03

It's not actually that prestigious to hold a record - partly due to the tower damage bonus, partly due to the fact that we can't truly verify any runs haven't been doctored. But it should be good enough as a vague reference.

I agree with this, that's why I didn't bother getting to level 400 and trying to set the legacy DwD record for 1H, which I might have been able to with my max forged incoming power set. Though I regret it a little, because now we may never know what 1H was truly capable of there, but hopefully we got the vague idea correct which matters most. (Some players, including myself kind of, thought we were still somewhat away from best record).

After all, to truly get the best legacy DwD records what we would do is give a level 300 player an awesome max forged peerless set, DD9, and watch him kick butt.

Hmm, I see. Yeah, that's probably a thing that should be addressed in general, we don't really want those stats to be detrimental..

To be fair, in my opinion and various players' experimental tests, the detrimental effect of small amounts of evade is much less than most 1H players imagine by orders of magnitude, to the point that I'd still prefer +4% evade from ponyslayer, which would easily be overcome by the increase to +12% physical damage anyway.

But supposing that you address this in general, say by switching the order in which parry/block and evade occur as Nezu suggested, note that it could have other effects on game balance.

Shadow Veil, if having no detriment, would suddenly be used by all 1H players, and the already-tankiest style would become safer still. Not sure that would be good (though I think wise 1H players use both Haste and Shadow Veil when needed anyway, say in the isekai tower).

Also if Shadow Veil is empowered for 1H, then Haste becomes less attractive for 1H since attack speed also reduces counter attacks. As the game currently stands, Shadow Veil and Haste usage in 1H are roughly balanced in my opinion.

I don't see a simple, natural way to fix Haste (action/attack speed) for 1H in the same way as could be done for Shadow Veil (evade). You could increase the counter attack damage proportionately with action speed, but that would be artificial and unnatural. You could tweak 1H's Overwhelming Strikes to give more damage bonus (since Haste improves how often Overwhelming Strikes is active) but that would make 1H more powerful in general which may not be desirable.

Having a title tree to choose from is also an option. If you add a title that completely nullifies evade and atkspd, I would take it even with 0% bonus damage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

You are like those people who throw away spare wheel to reduce fuel consumption. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif) Effect in place for sure, but it's suttle to the point that it is not worth of even thinking about it, its micro optimization really.

Funfact would i still go for 1H PFest i wouldnt mind a bit more evade at all. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

You are like those people who throw away spare wheel to reduce fuel consumption. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif) Effect in place for sure, but it's suttle to the point that it is not worth of even thinking about it, its micro optimization really.

I stand by what I said.
And anyway you're wrong.
I would throw away the spare wheel, all the seats beside the driver's and every part of the inner car that is not useful to the purpose of driving or resting some body part, as well as removing the battery and the engine starting circuit once the car is started (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Funfact would i still go for 1H PFest i wouldnt mind a bit more evade at all. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

But outside of fest? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)


In any case, changing the order in which Evade and Block/Parry are applied to damage is a good idea too.
Wouldn't change anything for all the other styles, since none apart from 1H has any mechanic relying on any of the avoidance stats, so the percentage of damage taken compared to the total damage directed to the player would stay the same.
I approve of this if this gets pushed as an update.
100% would approve Evade on titles, as well as just adding SV to IA (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

As for Haste well, one can just not use it, right? There is no unintended way of getting Attack Speed that cannot be removed for 1h...this, of course, unless you get Swift Strike or use Mithril armors (why would you do that to yourself lmao) or high AGI (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)
But since melee needs buff well, one could add a multiplier on counter damage and ailments tick damage (and anything else that does damage over time tied to some formula, outside of your manual attacks) that directly relates to attack speed.
Even if like, having 50% attack speed would increase counter damage to 1.5 times, I'm still not sure if the overall DPS would be the same or still lower than no attack speed with 1 times damage counters.
This also would buff slashing weapons btw, if attack speed increased bleeding damage.

This post has been edited by Juggernaut Santa: Jul 24 2021, 08:09

My suggestion for haste is to make overcharge decrease with each tick, rather than each action. That way 1H players can choose whether to get even more overcharge with haste, or to do more counterattacks without haste. Other melee styles also get buffed, and could potentially perma spirit stance with enough attack speed. And you don't nuke your overcharge meter by drinking draughts and using gems.