[X] My Assistant

It was worth it, especially considering the prices you were willing to pay beforehand in your WTB. You were willing to pay 18~19m for a top notch regular power of slaughter.

Savage prefix is worth around 24% adb, which corresponds to 2x to 4x the price in terms of raw performance value. It could correspond to even more price in terms of item rarity.

For your advertisement, this armor was worth 36m to 72m. In terms of more typical value, my blue armor with very similar overall stats was 7.5m, so a savage version of it would be 15m to 30m.

That savage armor does more damage than a 100% adb color armor so it has enough adb. Also notice it has very high rolls in both crit chance and crit damage, so it's essentially a near perfect offensive armor. It has some weaknesses for defense but high level players don't need to care about that.

Despite "only" having 366 PXP0 (which is much better than average) it has the desired high burden and low interference which is likewise better than it seems for that PXP0 total.

If I didn't already have an armor I'm happy with I would have bid over 30m on it, plus I try not to bid against friends. Though I wouldn't have bid 70m. Tygertyger did that for a similar savage leggings. :3

Savage prefix is worth around 24% adb

No.

It was worth it, especially considering the prices you were willing to pay beforehand in your WTB. You were willing to pay 18~19m for a top notch regular power of slaughter.

Savage prefix is worth around 24% adb, which corresponds to 2x to 4x the price in terms of raw performance value. It could correspond to even more price in terms of item rarity.

For your advertisement, this armor was worth 36m to 72m. In terms of more typical value, my blue armor with very similar overall stats was 7.5m, so a savage version of it would be 15m to 30m.

That savage armor does more damage than a 100% adb color armor so it has enough adb. Also notice it has very high rolls in both crit chance and crit damage, so it's essentially a near perfect offensive armor. It has some weaknesses for defense but high level players don't need to care about that.

Despite "only" having 366 PXP0 (which is much better than average) it has the desired high burden and low interference which is likewise better than it seems for that PXP0 total.

If I didn't already have an armor I'm happy with I would have bid over 30m on it, plus I try not to bid against friends. Though I wouldn't have bid 70m. Tygertyger did that for a similar savage leggings. :3

That 24% adb, are you sure about that? It seems way off to me. How did you calculate this?
It has been a long time since I played melee, but back then a large share of my damage was fron parry. That doesn't benefit from crit does it? So only when targeting a single monster, crit helps at all. SG arenas would probably benefit from it. But would that be equal to 24% ?

For mage, I really don't value crit that much over mdb, because all monsters must die, not just one.

Yup, pretty much.

On a long battle, usually, my damage is like 1.33~1.5 counters for every 1 hit

Even if counter attacks are 1~1.5 per turn that's still only 0.25~0.30 of your total damage 0.75 / 0.75 + 2.4 ≈ 0.25, the main attack matters most. And don't forget that Fatality and Savage almost double in strength on skills (Vital Strike, maybe OFC) compared to Butcher or ADB.

But I prefer to set all that on the side. Just look at the ordinary main attack and crunch the numbers for starters.

On a helmet the Savage prefix gives roughly 3% crit damage, approximately equal to Fatality 1.5

Meanwhile a Slaughter helmet has about half the ADB of a rapier. If we approximate Fatality ≈ Butcher (which is generally accepted to be true if ignoring the previously mentioned differences regarding counter attacks and skills) then Fatality 1.5 thus is like Butcher 3 on a helmet. Butcher 1 on a rapier is 12% ADB so the Savage prefix is actually worth 36% ADB.

I reduced 36% ADB to 24% ADB in consideration of the counter attacks. It should be noted though that Savage would be worth around 70% ADB when executing Vital Strike (and 140% ADB assuming you actually get a critical, since all other analyses take into account you only get a crit about half the time). On the other hand, in most cases a Savage/Fatal skill on a SG from a really strong player is overkill anyway.

If some of those numbers are sounding unreasonable, I think it's the way they are being interpreted that makes it seem strange. To illustrate, let's repeat the above analysis to see what the Slaughter suffix on a helmet is worth.

Slaughter suffix on a helmet adds about 7~8 base ADB. The difference between Lmin and Lmax rolls is about 5~6 base ADB. So the Slaughter suffix is worth about 133% ADB compared to a Protection/Warding piece.

So when I say that Savage is worth 24% ADB it's really not a whole lot. A color armor could be better than a Savage armor, it just needs to have around 24% more ADB which is quite reasonable to achieve. In contrast, no roll can make up for the Slaughter suffix, although a Peerless of Protection/Warding can do damage comparable to a Lmin Slaughter piece.

Still no. I wasn't refering to the value you gave it, but to the very fact that you were giving it a value in the first place.

Give up with the idea of giving an ADB value to the Savage prefix already, be it in ADB points, percentage, or liters. The actual difference it makes in the global damage output depends on so many things (starting with the presence of other Savage in the same equipment set...) that you can't possibly determine any value that will be an "absolute truth". Just take it for what it is, nothing else, and at best you may calculate the enhancement for a given setup+playstyle when needed and then check what is the actual effect by playing the game.

And be a bit more humble and cautious in your approach of things please. You're so obsessed with your will to detain the Truth and to discover things that you don't even see the harm you're causing around you on your journey.

~skip~
Butcher 1 on a rapier is 12% ADB so the Savage prefix is actually worth 36% ADB.
~skip~

WHAT ??? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) NO !!

Just get a 48.36 base ADB Rapier, IW Butcher 1, is the ADB now gone to 54.16 (i.e. +12%) ?
Obviously NO, so what you say is mathematically worng, oh sooo wrong !

If some of those numbers are sounding unreasonable, I think it's the way they are being interpreted that makes it seem strange.

I think it's 'cause there dead wrong (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

To illustrate, let's repeat the above analysis to see what the Slaughter suffix on a helmet is worth.

Slaughter suffix on a helmet adds about 7~8 base ADB. The difference between Lmin and Lmax rolls is about 5~6 base ADB. So the Slaughter suffix is worth about 133% ADB compared to a Protection/Warding piece.

And this is utter bullshit (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) The difference between Lmax and Lmin on rolls is NOT 100% of roll, just 100% of Leg RANGE, which is NOT roll.

Lmax is 100% of roll, don't get confused by the practice of using percentages of Leg Range.

Right. Thanks for your contributions, you've all made your point. Let's end this discussion here. Please post facts in the research thread if you have them.

(I may delete any continuing of this discussion at my discretion)

mundomuneca, it's just semantics but Legendaries technically roll from Lmin to Lmax these days. In the old game version (pre-0.82?) equipments used to roll using the full range.

I wasn't refering to the value you gave it, but to the very fact that you were giving it a value in the first place. Give up with the idea of giving an ADB value to the Savage prefix, the actual difference it makes in the global damage output depends on so many things...at best you may calculate the enhancement for a given setup+playstyle when needed

I agree completely with this. My personal treatment of the Savage prefix is only meant to be a crude starting point.

Savage prefix is worth around 24% adb which corresponds to 2x to 4x the price in terms of raw performance value. It could correspond to even more price in terms of item rarity.

Anyone else have any thoughts about how much the Savage prefix on 1H tends to cost?

Let's end this discussion here.
(I may delete any continuing of this discussion at my discretion)

The Official My Little Ponyverse Chat
For Ponies 'n Friends. Post your random thoughts or theorycrafts about HV

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

you're right of course, but that quote isn't all that I posted, is it? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

you're right of course, but that quote isn't all that I posted, is it? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The research thread is for research. This ain't research, it's speculation and theorycrafting.

And not everyone made their point, clearly, we few posters of this page are not "everyone"

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

invitation is still valid though. hint has been raised here, collect data, post them on research.

This savage pricing discussion made me think I should buy sssss2 helmet. It's still way out of my level range so it'll be a year before I can wear it. Strange how I ignored it for some time before thinking I wanted it; I had originally done the same for my blue armor too. While stuff of similar quality that I want right away is often out of my grasp.

I'm not particularly attracted to savage items for 1H but always planned on trying to get 1 or 2 savage prefixes on my endgame set. However my plan was to get them cheaply by having them on warding or balance pieces, as I don't require full slaughter.

I suppose even savage on warding or balance can cost up to 5m (peerless savage of warding tends to be near 5m, while peerless color of warding can sometimes go below 500k or even free). If I think about it that way then even this super top quality helmet didn't cost me the expected surcharge, so I'm grateful for the price. :)

you can't very well go void maging with that, so why would this be useful? For imperil? Nah - not valuable.

DJNoni You are a great person, never change because even in your moments of sarcasm you still help. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

That Wakizashi that you valued me is perfect for my Dual-Wieldindg fighting style, in fact in combination with the Imperil and with the spirit activated, it does a lot of damage, I improve my time in the Arena challenges for at least 15 minutes less.

Once again, thank you very much... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

This post has been edited by Arkoniusx: Jan 9 2020, 05:06

We can edit our messages on the Discord! Oh, thank goodness. But how do you indent?

And where's my Lesti? He hides from me now.

We can edit our messages on the Discord! Oh, thank goodness. But how do you indent?

with ">"

with ">"

K, I'll give it a try next time I'm on.

I made a post over here that might've been funny if it wasn't rotting in the Site Helpdesk section. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by lestion: Jan 15 2020, 15:02