[X] My Assistant

I did miss something during my offline time right? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

something, yep...

I guess because you are not telling me, what i missed by yourself, it doesnt make sense to ask. Hmpf (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I guess because you are not telling me, what i missed by yourself, it doesnt make sense to ask. Hmpf (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

i'd like to tease you a bit more, but it has already been publicly addressed. goldage had poor performance in tagging fields, he was warned, ignored all warnings and was banned. then he started to bother some mods about the reasons and whine about that and a rocket with his name was arranged to go on the moon colony.

this in two words. actually he caused a certain load of supervising work and these two lines lasted more than one month.

Tagging eh? Well, that tells me everything i need to know. Threats about severe consequences if you dont reach the 100/100 or be a member of the Brotherhood works great. If i would think that my opinion would matter, i would suggest to forbid tagging for everyone who isnt part of the brotherhood. Well case closed i guess. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

I just have a random Look and wonder: How can this happen?

>sv24:






Emmmmmmmmmmm...........


My advice is, if you don't know the rules, or choose not to follow them, then you DO NOT belong here.

At least it's a good Person who gives Sweetness Overload a Choice.

------

[edit]: just resized images. feel free to remove this line.

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Dec 16 2017, 22:53

Tagging eh? Well, that tells me everything i need to know. Threats about severe consequences

no. you know how it went, what i meant and why i offered to tell you. also, afaik a certain mod discussed a bit with you some time prior, i only wanted to avoid for that person to show up again.

if you dont reach the 100/100 or be a member of the Brotherhood works great. If i would think that my opinion would matter, i would suggest to forbid tagging for everyone who isnt part of the brotherhood. Well case closed i guess. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

no need for 100 accuracy (actually, that, too is a bit suspect on its own and i guess even the top taggers don't have it) and not even some kind of Brotherhood, Kalergi plan or Bilderberg group. plus, afaik binglo and joe aren't reptilians, but i cannot be sure of that.

what is actually suggested is:
1. understand what you're tagging and whatnot
2. read tag definitions
3. when in doubt, not to tag
4. eventually, discuss about tags in vig section
5. not using the tag system to farm toplist ranks.

basically, only contribute the little you feel, when you're sure of and aiming to improve the community a bit.

case closed

Also they are called Reticulian. Not reptilians. And the bilderberg group is busy with their penis control vanilla. And the Kalergi plan just exist because people are unable to understand how so many incompetent persons can make so many incompetent decisions. And i have to admit, it is hard to believe. But people are just that incompetent.

edit: Just look at what sv24 did try. It proves it. People = incompetence on legs.

Ich habe fertig.
Giovanni Trapattoni 10. March 1998

This post has been edited by Uncle Stu: Dec 16 2017, 23:00

I am not too sure of all of the context involved behind this statement, so perhaps I am missing something.

Destruction staves give higher MDB.
Of Demon gives extra prof.
Lastly Of Fenrir would add EDB.

MDB and EDB are multiplied against each other in order to give you spell damage (as well as multiplied by spell factor from the spell you're actually casting and some other stuff).
All the components that contribute to your spell damage are a multiplier. Raising any of them has a bigger effect the higher all of them are. So, +100 MDB for example is not just +100 damage. If you have 100 EDB, that +100 MDB becomes +200, and a T3 spell (with full abilities) turns that into 1500.

Because MDB and EDB have a multiplicative relationship with each other rather than an additive, the value of an increase in either is snowballed the higher the other is. If the decision is "+1" to MDB or "+1" to EDB, go with whichever stat is lower between the two. "2" x "3+1" = "8," vs "2+1" x "3" = "9."

And because because MDB comes mostly from Staff, INT and WIS, and Radiant prefixes while EDB comes from four pieces of armor, Destruction suffix instead of Fenrir will tend to result in more damage unless you have a bunch of Radiant prefixes at max roll. Reality Marble did the calculations on it over in the Ask the Experts thread, but even when your EDB suffix outdamages Destruction, it's only by a tiny bit.

It's not really an additive bonus. At least not when considered in the whole mage build. The fact that it is "additive" to the base stats of the staff beyond what it would have without Destruction is irrelevant.

"Additive" as in stats are combined prior to damage calculation.

All of this formula conversation is moot without data, so let me bust out my forged Leg Dem Kat of Destruction, and move cottons around to get to 1000prof and I'll let you know. Staff is post 0.82 patch, so it's modern.

(IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/RedD3Eq.png?1)
egh, why imgur sux at resizing

This post has been edited by treesloth: Dec 16 2017, 23:06

case closed

meh, fine. i'm tired to address that thing. i guess it *will* be the same for you, uh?

[edit]: just resized images. feel free to remove this line.

edit: Just look at what sv24 did try. It proves it. People = incompetence on legs.

don't know if it's sv's case, but at times people read rules and try anyways.

"non ragioniam di loro, ma guarda e passa"
D. Alighieri, 1314.

Ci sono certe stupidaggini che è possibile impugnare adeguatamente solo con una stupidità ancora più grottesca.
Nicolás Gómez Dávila

Sorry cant find when he did say that.

"Additive" as in stats are combined prior to damage calculation.

All of this formula conversation is moot without data, so let me bust out my forged Leg Dem Kat of Destruction, and move cottons around to get to 1000prof and I'll let you know. Staff is post 0.82 patch, so it's modern.

(IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/RedD3Eq.png?1)
egh, why imgur sux at resizing

Theory can help determine what data is in need of collecting and/or how to go about collecting it. But yes, data is super good. I look forward to your results.

Also, cold mages have a quite good proc which is at least something but fire one sucks bad.

Fire proc gives the best defense and reduces sp draining when damage is extremely high (late fest and so on). 10% might sound same, but actually they have different process.

For example, 10% miss means 1/10 of all attacks ll be ignored. And here is point, because if you dont need healing and dont get damage, then regeneration is wasted. And if you need healing and it doesnt proc then you need to heal much more. Such randomness of effect in reality means not same 10% as we can imagine, because on both ends effect ll be cut (when it doesnt proc, or proc few times in row).

10% speed can be extremely good and bad at the same time and mostly depends on player. Because player and mosters have their own speed then it looks more like this:
monster attacks x...x...x...x...x...x
player... attacks x....x....x....x....x
And we can see sometimes such speed reduction might be one less attack if player just a lit bit slow (just think how big is such effect if 3 attacks reduces to 2), or sometimes it do nothing, because overall attack amount remains same. Even in case if mosters start with some random timing we still should have peak damage frame and so on.

So i think 10% speed has the best potential, but depends on each case personally (because sometimes it can be literally around 0 effect) and 10% from fire gives the best stable result.

Because MDB and EDB have a multiplicative relationship with each other rather than an additive, the value of an increase in either is snowballed the higher the other is. If the decision is "+1" to MDB or "+1" to EDB, go with whichever stat is lower between the two. "2" x "3+1" = "8," vs "2+1" x "3" = "9."

And because because MDB comes mostly from Staff, INT and WIS, and Radiant prefixes while EDB comes from four pieces of armor, Destruction suffix instead of Fenrir will tend to result in more damage unless you have a bunch of Radiant prefixes at max roll.

this seems interesting. and it would be even more interesting to correlate that to the cost needed to raise +1 magic damage.
ie: i want to boost my firepower from 20,000/hit (T1 spell) to, saying, 20,100. what should i upgrade to have the best ROI? say, 100 MDB and 0 EDB? 50 MDB and 50 EDB? 70 MDB and 10 EDB? and where to divide those MDB/EDB?

this seems interesting. and it would be even more interesting to correlate that to the cost needed to raise +1 magic damage.
ie: i want to boost my firepower from 20,000/hit (T1 spell) to, saying, 20,100. what should i upgrade to have the best ROI? say, 100 MDB and 0 EDB? 50 MDB and 50 EDB? 70 MDB and 10 EDB? and where to divide those MDB/EDB?

Glad it is interesting!

I am actually interested in puzzling this sort of thing out for all the builds. A lot of my posting in the 1h research thread is to mostly get the groundwork of this theory down.

Since the exact formulas aren't known, but suspected, testing can somewhat reverse engineer those things (something I've seen done in many games).

The basic mathematical principles are sound. They're basic arithmetic and algebra, after all. But I don't think people often think about them.

The damage formula could easily have some kind of weighting to a particular stat. STR vs DEX there is a known weighting value: STR is weighted twice as much towards ABD than DEX (which is fair, because DEX does so much else).

But yes. At least getting these various stats into something of a common denominator is a start. And just because it isn't as straightforward as "+20 MDB = +150 damage" doesn't make the process impossible. Just, y'know, spreadhseet-worthy.

I also think the other massively overlooked component of this process is enemy HP. 20k to 20.1k isn't too meaningful an increase. But if your typical target has 20,001-20,099 HP, then that represents a huge difference of doubling your speed. From two casts to kill to one. But if they have 40k HP, both damage amounts are still two casts. That's pretty important to ROI considerations. That portion of the research project will probably involve making some suggestions to Jenga (for the monster database and the data it collects/maintains) or some logging scripting people already do, but tweaked to include enemy HP data to parse with their level+difficulty.

this seems interesting. and it would be even more interesting to correlate that to the cost needed to raise +1 magic damage.
ie: i want to boost my firepower from 20,000/hit (T1 spell) to, saying, 20,100. what should i upgrade to have the best ROI? say, 100 MDB and 0 EDB? 50 MDB and 50 EDB? 70 MDB and 10 EDB? and where to divide those MDB/EDB?

That's basically the concept of "damage layers" I was telling you about, the other day. Having a bit of everything is what makes a build the mot efficient.

Somewhat related: how many people reguarly use flower vase / bubble gum?

That's basically the concept of "damage layers" I was telling you about, the other day. Having a bit of everything is what makes a build the mot efficient.

Hence the absymal failure of that thread-which-shall-not-be-named.

Somewhat related: how many people reguarly use flower vase / bubble gum?

It's worth it for those with incredible gear and who don't use Imperil.

The basic mathematical principles are sound. They're basic arithmetic and algebra, after all. But I don't think people often think about them.

actually you could retrieve some interesting infos by deriving the Magic_score formula, if it's for that.

CODE

Magic_Score = MDB * ( 1 + EDB/100 )

d(M_S)       EDB
------ = 1 + ---
d(MDB)       100

d(M_S)   MDB
------ = ---
d(EDB)   100

d(M_S)   d(M_S)      MDB       EDB   100 + EDB
------ = ------  ->  --- = 1 + --- = ---------  ->  MDB = EDB + 100 (*)
d(MDB)   d(EDB)      100       100      100

this should tell you the condition for both of the rates to grow with the same pace. too sleepy to go on with the reasoning, but next steps may be to combine it with either the forge cost matrix or the forge upgrade formula, i guess.

The damage formula could easily have some kind of weighting to a particular stat. STR vs DEX there is a known weighting value: STR is weighted twice as much towards ABD than DEX (which is fair, because DEX does so much else).

same goes for INT vs. WIS.

I also think the other massively overlooked component of this process is enemy HP. That portion of the research project will probably involve making some suggestions to Jenga (for the monster database and the data it collects/maintains) or some logging scripting people already do, but tweaked to include enemy HP data to parse with their level+difficulty.

uh... seems quite the shitload of datas...

That's basically the concept of "damage layers" I was telling you about, the other day. Having a bit of everything is what makes a build the mot efficient.

ah, yes, sure. but at the same time, having only one or two big rolls may be more efficient than many smaller ones. look at Block, for example

Hence the absymal failure of that thread-which-shall-not-be-named.

the voldemort thread? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Dec 17 2017, 02:30

i'd like to tease you a bit more, but it has already been publicly addressed. goldage had poor performance in tagging fields, he was warned, ignored all warnings and was banned. then he started to bother some mods about the reasons and whine about that and a rocket with his name was arranged to go on the moon colony.

this in two words. actually he caused a certain load of supervising work and these two lines lasted more than one month.

Oh, this is very unfortunate. He wasn't a very chatty guy but I felt he was someone who tried to contribute to the community.

He could have ranted in a corner and no one would have taken heed, but alas, poor judgement meant he had to prod the cows and bears only to be mauled and trampled.

This post has been edited by LOL50015: Dec 17 2017, 02:28

Somewhat related: how many people reguarly use flower vase / bubble gum?

Just search bubble gum in Titels in WTB, then you can find the Result, because the Players who regular uses them must collect them from other Players. I play from 01.2014 and now have 334 Flower Vase and 328 Bubble Gum.