[X] My Assistant

Hi, i'm kind of back (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
I'll still be less active than before for quite a while though (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Oh, you come back right before Christmas, I see...!

Is it normal to get wrecked in an 80round IW? Im sparking every three turns and pretty much almost dying at the very end. I'm not using scrolls, and halfway through i have to start imperiling everything. have mobs just gotten much stronger in 2-3 years?

These are my setup stats for fenrir with prof staff (magic score 33778):

Magical Attack
4619 magic base damage
217.1 % hit chance
52.6 % crit chance / +53 % damage
100 % mana cost modifier
19.8 % cast speed bonus

Vitals
24925 health points
5361 magic points
2470 spirit points

Defense
64.7 % physical mitigation
68.7 % magical mitigation
62.6 % evade chance
0 % block chance
22.7 % parry chance
70.3 % resist chance

7 burden

471.5 % dark EDB
859 forbidden prof

Difficulty? IWBTH? Well, regardless, here's your main problem:

859 forbidden prof

No-Imperil style needs superb gear to perform well. 0.73 prof_factor => 31 mitigation reduction (whereas full prof => 50 mitigation reduction). Remember that proficiency has increasing returns to scale, up until the cap. It'd be well worth it to give up a bit of EDB in exchange.

Also make sure that all of your gears are from the modern era. For no-Imperil, I'm pretty sure that a highly forged Destruction staff will perform the best, though of course those are expensive.

You can also feel free to use scrolls above round ~65 in IW (or before, if you calculate when they'll run out); it can be similar in difficulty to late GF.

In the meantime, if your gears aren't getting you there, it's probably fine to drop down a difficulty level until they are; it'll require a lot less management and rounds will go by a lot faster.

Getting no-Imperil style to work well on high difficulty requires lots of funds and perks.

Oh, you come back right before Christmas, I see...!

Why not. I mean like we all know. Babbo Natale esiste and he is here in the forum. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Difficulty? IWBTH? Well, regardless, here's your main problem:
No-Imperil style needs superb gear to perform well. 0.73 prof_factor => 31 mitigation reduction (whereas full prof => 50 mitigation reduction). Remember that proficiency has increasing returns to scale, up until the cap. It'd be well worth it to give up a bit of EDB in exchange.

Also make sure that all of your gears are from the modern era. For no-Imperil, I'm pretty sure that a highly forged Destruction staff will perform the best, though of course those are expensive.

You can also feel free to use scrolls above round ~65 in IW (or before, if you calculate when they'll run out); it can be similar in difficulty to late GF.

In the meantime, if your gears aren't getting you there, it's probably fine to drop down a difficulty level until they are; it'll require a lot less management and rounds will go by a lot faster.

Getting no-Imperil style to work well on high difficulty requires lots of funds and perks.

Diff is PFUDOR. I don't think staff suffix matters as the stats are all additive anyway, but maybe you get a bonus for destruction staff. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) You're right though, when I change gear around to get 988 forbidden prof, at the expense of EDB (now 402 EDB), I can get to round50 without imperiling. Magic score is now 29100, with prof staff, 4 forged Leg radiant with edb 80-90%, and forged charged gossamer gloves. My impression is that for non-imperil to "work," Daemon duality IX has to be obtained. I only have up to DD V. That would require 100,000 hath, which is pretty impossible at this rate lol.

PFUDOR + high round IW as mage is extremely painful, especially with no-Imperil, which takes the most damage. I have good confidence that a more suitable staff really would help at least some, but even with perfect gear, what you're trying would still be quite difficult. You'll probably always have to Imperil some or drop down to IWBTH (which isn't a bad alternative).

I've been upgrading my divine prof level, prof past your level*2 is useless right?

This post has been edited by yami_zetsu: Dec 15 2017, 11:41

I've been upgrading my divine prof level, prof past your level*2 is useless right?

i have been gone for 2yrs, but yes that's what i gather from asking for advice.

PFUDOR + high round IW as mage is extremely painful, especially with no-Imperil, which takes the most damage. I have good confidence that a more suitable staff really would help at least some, but even with perfect gear, what you're trying would still be quite difficult. You'll probably always have to Imperil some or drop down to IWBTH (which isn't a bad alternative).

At IWBTH you're getting worse drops and reducing the pxp gain from 20 to 15 (before it was 16 for both and doing IWBTH was actually better).

For IW @PFUDOR without imperil I suggest using scrolls.
What I do is:
>85 rounds
Use 2 set of scrolls (200 turns)
<85 rounds
Use 1 set of scrolls (100 turns)

With set I mean protection + swiftness + shadows (worth 750C, not using them and having to use a spirit elixir costs more)

With scrolls I can complete the IW without imperil, with a good time and usually using only a couple of spirit potions.

At IWBTH you're getting worse drops and reducing the pxp gain from 20 to 15 (before it was 16 for both and doing IWBTH was actually better).

but you'll bring home the pxp at least (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)
seriously, it's not like there are many other choices, apart for reducing difficulty or throwing in some boosts.

I only have up to DD V.

as if it was chips (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
however, for now you can also play as an imperil dark mage with that prof factor. it should still be a good style.

I've been upgrading my divine prof level, prof past your level*2 is useless right?

yep.

You'll probably always have to Imperil some or drop down to IWBTH (which isn't a bad alternative).

PFU or bust. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

At IWBTH you're getting worse drops and reducing the pxp gain from 20 to 15 (before it was 16 for both and doing IWBTH was actually better).

For IW @PFUDOR without imperil I suggest using scrolls.
What I do is:
>85 rounds
Use 2 set of scrolls (200 turns)
<85 rounds
Use 1 set of scrolls (100 turns)

With set I mean protection + swiftness + shadows (worth 750C, not using them and having to use a spirit elixir costs more)

With scrolls I can complete the IW without imperil, with a good time and usually using only a couple of spirit potions.

that's some good advice, thank you

but you'll bring home the pxp at least (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)
seriously, it's not like there are many other choices, apart for reducing difficulty or throwing in some boosts.
as if it was chips (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
however, for now you can also play as an imperil dark mage with that prof factor. it should still be a good style.
yep.

don't be surprised to see phazon prices drop to half, on account of all my sparking. monster trainers should thank me. i take hath (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

a peerless frugal robe of warding at 200k? wow. i mean, it's still peerless, but at the same time it's also useless... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

collecting things is srs business
gotta catch'em all (⌒▽⌒)☆

a peerless frugal robe of warding at 200k? wow. i mean, it's still peerless, but at the same time it's also useless... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

I just buy it in hopes of making a full peerless warding set (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
I already got a cap.

Frankly, at this point, there's not much stuff for me to spend my money on.

Frankly, at this point, there's not much stuff for me to spend my money on.

Why not try another element next to cold mage? Wind or Elec? Just for the fun of it. I'm building a dark set next to my cold set, just to keep it interesting.

I don't think staff suffix matters as the stats are all additive anyway, but maybe you get a bonus for destruction staff.

I am not too sure of all of the context involved behind this statement, so perhaps I am missing something.

Destruction staves give higher MDB.
Of Demon gives extra prof.
Lastly Of Fenrir would add EDB.

MDB and EDB are multiplied against each other in order to give you spell damage (as well as multiplied by spell factor from the spell you're actually casting and some other stuff).

Spell Damage = max(1, (damage_range * spell_data * ((MDB) * (1 + EDB/100) * (1 + hath_bonus)) * critmod * channel_mod) * defense_mit

All the components that contribute to your spell damage are a multiplier. Raising any of them has a bigger effect the higher all of them are. So, +100 MDB for example is not just +100 damage. If you have 100 EDB, that +100 MDB becomes +200, and a T3 spell (with full abilities) turns that into 1500.

Because MDB and EDB have a multiplicative relationship with each other rather than an additive, the value of an increase in either is snowballed the higher the other is. If the decision is "+1" to MDB or "+1" to EDB, go with whichever stat is lower between the two. "2" x "3+1" = "8," vs "2+1" x "3" = "9."

And because because MDB comes mostly from Staff, INT and WIS, and Radiant prefixes while EDB comes from four pieces of armor, Destruction suffix instead of Fenrir will tend to result in more damage unless you have a bunch of Radiant prefixes at max roll. Reality Marble did the calculations on it over in the Ask the Experts thread, but even when your EDB suffix outdamages Destruction, it's only by a tiny bit.

It's not really an additive bonus. At least not when considered in the whole mage build. The fact that it is "additive" to the base stats of the staff beyond what it would have without Destruction is irrelevant.

I just buy it in hopes of making a full peerless warding set (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
I already got a cap.

Frankly, at this point, there's not much stuff for me to spend my money on.

uhu. either that or too expensive pieces, yep. oh, well. i won't need to follow auctions today either, i guess...

Spell Damage = max(1, (damage_range * spell_data * ((MDB) * (1 + EDB/100) * (1 + hath_bonus)) * critmod * channel_mod) * defense_mit

Note: These formulas are out of date.

since the beginning of 2013, less or more (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)


speaking of which, has anyone any idea about how it changed?

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Dec 16 2017, 14:13

Why not try another element next to cold mage? Wind or Elec? Just for the fun of it. I'm building a dark set next to my cold set, just to keep it interesting.

Mmmm......maybe I'll do that when I start playing actively again...

outdated or not, the idea of the thing is kept and the "MDB" in that would be (ﾉ≧∀≦)ﾉ ‥…━━━★

"Base magic damage = (log(3330 + INT * 2 + WIS , 1.0003) - 27039.81) + (staff_prof * 0.5) + (equipment_Magic_Damage_Bonus)"

unless a MAJOR change was made on this, the MDB of the staff enters in the "equipment_Magic_Damage_Bonus", in an addictive fashion to the radiant MDB (⊃｡•́‿•̀｡)⊃━✿✿✿✿✿✿


also the calculations were unreliable because isn't the whole formulae not updated? also that was made using a theoretical staff_prof of 600, the "unreachable" limit. so double unreliable because if you reduce the value of the staff_prof then you raise the importance of the equipment MDB, no?

This post has been edited by reality_marble: Dec 16 2017, 14:23

don't know. i only noted the disclaimer and checked history until i found a hint about that, which said "the formulas may be outdated - last tested: March 2013", further shortened into "these formulas *are* outdated".

if it was for me, i doubt the base structure is that different from melee damage (except for some multipliers when appliable), but it's still possible some coefficients were tweaked/nerfed during patches, for example.