You've forgot about the featherweight shard nerf (duration+influence). I'm pretty sure heavy got a nice good assrape from that as well. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
Weren't you the one who kept telling chosen to come back when he did his shit without sharding? Then again it wasn't really needed anyway.
QUOTE(Bunker Buster @ Jan 26 2013, 19:10)
also so many people understate how monster PMI/MMI has dipped so if anything all fighting styles have been buffed. and I prefer getting hit for huge amounts since it makes the game slightly more interesting than "hold button/press key combination again and again"
also, armor SHOULD count against the 80% barrier because things would just be silly if it didn't.
like if a set of plate armor provides 50% combined protection (all inversely multiplied) and the player has 66% base protection from stats and auras, the mitigation should go up to 83% instead of capping out at 80% else you have silly situations where you DON'T want PMI after a certain point, like how having too much agility is grossly inefficient for action speed (which is another thing that can also greatly benefit from the linear diminishing returns stat mitigation is subjected to! hint hint)
I'm pretty sure the cap only applies to str/end, and gear/auras is separate.
If my oak has anti-resist id be like "yay... so helpful..."
yeah you get better returns trying to get rid of evades. the scale needs to be widened (5-15 to 10-25, possibly 15-35 for redwood) and focus suffix needs to improve it as well to make it appealing, as a 25% counter resist = +5% hit chance, 35% = +7% hit chance, which is not insignificant if you've anti-evade capped already.
also give daggers/wakizashis/katanas innate anti-parry (5-20% ie 1-4% increased chance to hit, with up to ~7% with two waki/daggers.) and similarly increased by balance suffix. scythe bleed coefficient should be raised to 40% max, and swords could remain joke weapons.
This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Jan 26 2013, 21:35
You are full of shit, you could also forge evade and mitigation.
I was going to just post the gif that Evil Scorpio's been using, but I respect you enough to run the numbers first. Forging Evade is good, but forging mitigation?
Naked, I have 26.2% PMI and 9317 HP In Phase, I have 36.7% PMI and 9317 HP.
My Phase pieces give me 2.79%, 3.48%, 2.53%, 3.72%, and 2.56% PMI (14.2% in total) Fully forged, they would give 3.91%, 4.87%, 3.54%, 5.21% and 3.58% (19.5% in total)
Applying that to my naked PMI, we get. . . In fully forged Phase, I would have 41.5% PMI and 9317 HP.
Calculating EHP, we get 12625 naked, 14718 in Phase, and 15926 in forged Phase. All that for 8% EHP. And that's before we account for the buffering effects of Spirit Shield.
Agree. The feather nerf was pretty harsh on melees IMO melees should have some fort of counter-parry for all fighting styles (maybe melee should get some counter parry when they're Super Saiyan spirit stanced?)
QUOTE(skillchip @ Jan 26 2013, 20:22)
Weren't you the one who kept telling chosen to come back when he did his shit without sharding? Then again it wasn't really needed anyway.
I already said this in the 0.73 thread, but I really think the shard nerf is for the better.
Interference is supposed to be the main disadvantage to Power (also to Plate, though a bit less there), but all you had to do was dump like what, 5-6k, and your Power armor became a on-steroids version of Shade, only without the evade (which also was higher at that point). It just cancelled the difference between armor sets, which is retained with the 0.73 change.
Parry is really I pain in the neck though, a 3-4x parry streak is very common vs endgame monsters on IWBTH, just the other day I got parried 9 times in 11 turns, I felt that... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif) Not saying it's imbalanced or anything here, but it would be fun to have means to work our way around it, like potencies, abilities, passives on some equip etc, because atm you just can't do much about it unless you're 1H (and even then, it's just the fighting style).
QUOTE(T_Starrk @ Jan 26 2013, 17:57)
I think most established players in general can go about their business. I think what affected everybody the most was the PMI nerf (mage and melee alike). Heavy melee probably has the easiest way to correct the problem though by switching a couple equips to high PMI plate. As for me, I use the same shade as I did before the patch and I can do the same difficulties. I just had to re-adjust my strategy a little. I have no innate arcana either so I still have a lot of ways to improve my mana consumption. And I can improve my damage reduction through forging evade and mitigation. Saying there's nothing you can do is just bullshit.
Yeah I think light came up on top after 0.73, the changes to mitigation hurt Plate the most (then, Power). I mean Light's PMI/MMI was low to begin with, the loss isn't as high as, say, a full Protection Plate. With the loss of elemental resistances from aura, high evade + high resist should be actually pretty nice.
Don't know what's the general opinion on this but after some playtime I feel the biggest change to melee it's not really the loss in Mitigations, but rather the change in PA. Unless you're only playing on IWBTH, monsters are going down before you stack PA 3x, and ofc it takes more attacks. Even assuming it procs 100 %, it still takes 2 turns more to get the same effect as before.
This is sort of an indirect buff to the other 2Hs, whichis good for the game balance imo. Switched to Mace while having my Estoc leveled up and it wasn't really as slow (compared to Estoc) as it was in 0.72. It also allows you to forget about Accuracy, so you can like swap a Balance piece for a Slaughter - or maybe you can take out even a Plate if your overall mitigations are decent (mine aren't (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)).
I was merely using danixxx as an example. You keep saying that there's nothing you can do to become stronger. Well danixxx is the prime example of the stronger mage you can strive to be.
A bad example. I think I did enough already to play most arenas on IWBTH.
QUOTE
You are full of shit, you could also forge evade and mitigation.
And I'm full of shit...
QUOTE
And yes, more damage would help, the quicker you kill, the less mana you will use.
No, more damage wouldn't help. A lot more damage would help.
QUOTE
So, you're telling me if you maxed out your MDB on your staff and your EDB on your phase it wouldn't make a difference? Yeah fucking right (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) .
It might make a difference but again: It's not whether it would work or not but it being disproportionally expensive for what it's worth, if you have no guarantee that it will survive the next patch.
QUOTE
Maybe then you wouldn't be on here bitching about how "Half the arenas I could do on IWBTH I can do at BT at best after this patch".
My point remains that playing non-ultra-expensive mage is punished right now and that playing ultra-expensive mage might be punished in the future (again). I think it's reasonable criticism.
QUOTE
Also, do you have eco 5? IA 4 or 5? If not those are two ways you could improve your mana cost.
>Eco Check. >IA5 You can't be serious.
QUOTE
But yes, you should have to be badass to play on IWBTH, lol.
Either that or a melee with a few millions.
QUOTE
Looks like you suck at picking what to forge. Forging is one of the best ways to get stronger after getting great equipment that you can't easily replace.
It doesn't work that way. If I can be accused of anything, it's using the forge when it became available. http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=39037c7604 From the time before anyone could hope to get an ex. destruction katalox staff with decent mdb. I had an exquisite focus too (before economizer became a proficiency) but even the guy I gave it too seems to have had no need for it anymore.
And yes, it costs credits. If you don't think it's worth it it's up to you, but don't expect to play every arena on IWBTH if you aren't willing to make your character stronger. Even I play with forged equips when I'm on IWBTH, and I'm melee for the most part.
No offense, but the upgrades on your "Primary set" are nothing compared to the money I already sank in the forge.
Interference is supposed to be the main disadvantage to Power (also to Plate, though a bit less there), but all you had to do was dump like what, 5-6k, and your Power armor became a on-steroids version of Shade, only without the evade (which also was higher at that point).
Very true. That helped to put Light + Heavy on more of an equal footing (at Heavy's expense, but more equal footing nonetheless). I didn't point that out in my other post though since it would have digressed a little. T did a nerf (how big is up to the users' judgement) to balance the armor sets but he could have just as easily done a buff IMO (make light more appealing?). In the end it's probably part of his master plan that has nothing to do with trolling Frith (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
IWBTH Trio, 10 mana potions, 1 spirit potion. Aether shard and around 20 scrolls of haste/shadow used but he scrolls turned out to be unnecessary as I still had a mana potion and 1k mana at the end. Loot is all junk, as usual (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
This post has been edited by fishinsea: Jan 26 2013, 23:24
That wasn't meant as a suggestion to go and max out PMI on mage gear. I was merely illustrating that there's other stats you can forge besides damage. I don't really think a few tenths of resist will help with my gear but I still throw a few bindings on when I have the mats. Although as a mage he should understand that you get far more out of forging damage than anything else.
Before I hit 200(hit it on the day monster scaling was changed), I was ohkoing far more rounds on normal, no, even on hard and probably even heroic than, say, ChosenUno, someone who has forged his all-mag+ holy set with hundreds of forges. That was with elemental gear worth perhaps 300k?
Nowadays, I oneshot far less, but majority of mobs that survive do so me due resists. However, another thing that doesn't make them so different is how resistances work - let's view hypothetical Celestial with +25 to all resistances. A Holy mage hits it for quarter his normal damage, elemental half and dark 1.25x. Meanwhile, if I forged all my damage-giving gear parts(all save 1 in mag range) to the max - let's not even mention how much would 200 Phazons and 450? HG Cloth, or over 300 HG woods and 100 destruction bindings cost - I'd go from 1869 MDB, 178.1 EDB, 263.25 prof to... 2439.064 MDB, 249.34 EDB, 282.95 Prof - 12039 magescore to 19986 magescore - 66% increase in damage...Yes. That's what I'd get if I forged far more than danixxx or hito.
That just covers the jump from normal to hard(tbh, I wouldn't even oneshot fully chaosed +50 fire giant on normal) - all-in-all, not very impressive with all the impervious monsters. well, tbh I don't play on normal even though I cannot oneshot it - I play on heroic since I can still reasonably maintain the playstyle there due aforementioned factors. 1.66% increase in damage would mean that I at my most powerful would be able to maintain same style on Hell - and I'd have more difficulties due receiving more damage - I'd do that if I were to forge evade too. If I were to try BT, it'd be easier than now, but I'd sacrifice a lot of speed - so much that I'd lose in terms of rewards gained.
However, it wouldn't make me oneshot on normal much more, as there far majority of mobs that survive are due resists. Forging evade would net me roughly 10% more EHP. With mit provided by PK, that becomes 15% Best difficulty for farming gf is still normal.
So yay. I don't know, Melees might receive more benefit from forging everything that has ADB to 100 and all stats and def-givers to 40s than 66% damage and 15% EHP - not to mention that damage would decrease the damage melee takes far more than for mage. This might explain the discrepancy.
Pouring magnitudes more credits than the best possible gear is worth into forging might net him taking less than 25% less damage. Improvement, yes.....But starting another char everytime he reaches higher level is greater improvement for less cost, even including buying hath perks.
This post has been edited by Lement: Jan 27 2013, 15:06
I didn't mean for it to be a "mage vs. melee" thing. I just don't like the whiny, bitchy attitude of "there's nothing I can do" really. You are also 150 levels below him so forging for you will have less effect than it will for him. I know a mage who can play IWBTH level on all the arenas at his level and they are not the richest player. But yeah, I appreciate how expensive phazons are which is why I'm thankful that I'm happy being a slow as fuck shade/dw player.
I don't see that very often but I find it funny, its like were're dancing!!
14 5 You evade the attack from Magic The Gandhi.
12 4 You evade the attack from Pupette. 12 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
11 4 You evade the attack from Pupette. 11 3 Pupette casts Frigidaire 11 2 You evade the attack from Magic The Gandhi. 11 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
10 3 Pupette misses the attack against you. 10 2 You evade the attack from Magic The Gandhi. 10 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
9 2 You parry the attack from Magic The Gandhi. 9 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
8 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
7 3 You parry the attack from Pupette. 7 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
6 8 You evade the attack from Pupette.
5 2 You evade the attack from Magic The Gandhi. 5 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
I don't see that very often but I find it funny, its like were're dancing!!
14 5 You evade the attack from Magic The Gandhi.
12 4 You evade the attack from Pupette. 12 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
11 4 You evade the attack from Pupette. 11 3 Pupette casts Frigidaire 11 2 You evade the attack from Magic The Gandhi. 11 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
10 3 Pupette misses the attack against you. 10 2 You evade the attack from Magic The Gandhi. 10 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
9 2 You parry the attack from Magic The Gandhi. 9 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
8 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
7 3 You parry the attack from Pupette. 7 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
6 8 You evade the attack from Pupette.
5 2 You evade the attack from Magic The Gandhi. 5 1 Magic The Gandhi parries your attack.
The Official Hentaiverse Chat, Post your random thoughts or theorycrafts about HV
Jan 26 2013, 21:22
