[X] My Assistant

don't think it's really a shitstorm. just a few wannabe trolls.

Nah, there is not enough place for trolling here, 'cause this "mages vs melees" theme is too old and boring. :< The only way to get some lulz from it is right after the new patch. Now we're just trying to have some fun from discussions. :3

However, there will be some other problems
1. melees will have more reliance on mace (stun) again because of the extra damage from monsters
2. shatter strike is still too useful
3. niten still sucks (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

1. Light armor resist rates say otherwise. Factoring in the evade, light armor is overall more protective than heavy armor in general except for shield barrier armor.
2. SS will probably become a tier 3 combo attack and more damaging. Or its advantages spread out among the combo, which would be preferable. (Example: the tier 1 attack does the stun, the tier 2 attack does the penetration, and the tier 3 attack deals the damage.)
3. It's pretty apparent Tenboro just wants to make it suck deliberately because it's something that sounds "cool" but impractical in real life.

there's plenty of space for trolling! just no one is doing it right (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

@varst bleeding style is the *best* style (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

cool i'm an overkiller by spending less than 100k buying from level 250's/lower (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

That's got little if anything to do at all with what I said, and I'm sure you know that.

don't think it's really a shitstorm. just a few wannabe trolls.

Let me guess, I should count myself in.

You gotta love when people talk (?) right past each other...

Point taken, back to sassy one liners.

1. Light armor resist rates say otherwise. Factoring in the evade, light armor is overall more protective than heavy armor in general except for shield barrier armor.
2. SS will probably become a tier 3 combo attack and more damaging. Or its advantages spread out among the combo, which would be preferable. (Example: the tier 1 attack does the stun, the tier 2 attack does the penetration, and the tier 3 attack deals the damage.)
3. It's pretty apparent Tenboro just wants to make it suck deliberately because it's something that sounds "cool" but impractical in real life.

1.Then bring the resist's scaling factor down from 400 to 2000, matching block and evade.
2. I'm okay with this. Still benefits bleeding style, but at least that sounds better.
3. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Rebalancing would be pretty easy without Tenb having to do much or ruining the fun for the Heavy users.

1. Make Resist able to resist physical Monster Skills.
2. Instead of physical attack add some Resit bonus to Staff Prof. Now Mages don't get hit by so many Monster skills any more and survive a little longer. Also 'of Negation' gear becomes useful for Light Armor Users.

Mages also have theproblem of running out of mana since ET deeper inside a GF/CF/IW is suicide so...
3a. Allow to add Mana Conservation to Staffs (very unlikely)
3b. Allow to use Aether Shards on Cloth.
3c. A change to ET so it is not suicide anymore (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by Ichy: Apr 18 2012, 11:17

1.Then bring the resist's scaling factor down from 400 to 2000, matching block and evade.
2. I'm okay with this. Still benefits bleeding style, but at least that sounds better.
3. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

1. Would be more like 800 because resist only eliminates magical attacks, much like parry only eliminates physical attacks.
2. Higher difficulties work against bleeding due to higher resistance and much higher damage (ie. SP bar will drain almost instantly if you don't have a mace) and I mostly play on higher difficulties.
3. inb4 katanas and wakizashis go the way of sword chucks and we get bastard swords and claws in place of them

don't understand what you mean. i was given the impression you made the point that an overkiller is someone capable of pwning 200 rounds of BT by piano-ing the keyboard. well i do that with my melee set =\

bought my "ungodly equpiment" for less than 100k as mentioned earlier (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

what i was hinting at, was if someone else can do it then you can as well. it's not like they have T's blessings or w/e you can think of.

as for the second statement. if you think you fall into that category then you do. i wasn't pointing any fingers.

1. Would be more like 800 because resist only eliminates magical attacks, much like parry only eliminates physical attacks.
2. Higher difficulties work against bleeding due to higher resistance and much higher damage (ie. SP bar will drain almost instantly if you don't have a mace) and I mostly play on higher difficulties.
3. inb4 katanas and wakizashis go the way of sword chucks and we get bastard swords and claws in place of them

1. Why 800 when you can make it 1000? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Besides, parry and resist share the same base now (400)

2. I just tried the bleeding style with plate of protection and shitty prof. in those lower-level arenas at IWBTH difficulty.
What I observed is that my SP meter isn't drained as fast as I've expected, mainly due to the ridiculous phy. mitigation (about 75% with protection). Then I used Shatter Strike whenever the SP meter is at 100% to stun the enemies and let regen 2 heal myself.
Overall it's difficult, but most damage can be contributed to shitty prof. (my bleeding damage would double, my accuracy will increase, I will be able to hit more than 5 enemies, and I also have more specific mitigation and less burden)And I haven't used featherweight shard yet.

don't understand what you mean. i was given the impression you made the point that an overkiller is someone capable of pwning 200 rounds of BT by piano-ing the keyboard. well i do that with my melee set =\

You've got the wrong impression, the deciding factor is the player's level. I stressed it often enough.

bought my "ungodly equpiment" for less than 100k as mentioned earlier (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That's not the point. It's just the cherry on top of the cake. The fact that you can fare that well with "just good" equipment strengthens my argument, actually.

as for the second statement. if you think you fall into that category then you do. i wasn't pointing any fingers.

I don't, but that way of reasoning is rather childish. You made a blanket statement, that's worse than the alternative.

1. Why 800 when you can make it 1000? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Besides, parry and resist share the same base now (400)

2. I just tried the bleeding style with plate of protection and shitty prof. in those lower-level arenas at IWBTH difficulty.
What I observed is that my SP meter isn't drained as fast as I've expected, mainly due to the ridiculous phy. mitigation (about 75% with protection). Then I used Shatter Strike whenever the SP meter is at 100% to stun the enemies and let regen 2 heal myself.
Overall it's difficult, but most damage can be contributed to shitty prof. (my bleeding damage would double, my accuracy will increase, I will be able to hit more than 5 enemies, and I also have more specific mitigation and less burden)And I haven't used featherweight shard yet.

1. Parry is also only placed in up to 2 weapons, as opposed to resist where you can get 5 pieces of it and net 40+% resist from gear alone. It probably really should be 1000 (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

2. You also have to factor in that Spirit Shield works off of total HP. This makes HP Tank sort of a tradeoff between SP drain (less the more points you have in HP tank) and actual damage mitigation (it gets lower the more points you have in HP tank). I don't have it full simply because Regen 2 will not outheal 2000+ damage hits at the rate I'm taking them. I'd have the same problem with shield barrier armor as I do now with light armor; unlucky streaks of hits cutting down my SP bar.

This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Apr 18 2012, 11:40

"The Overkillers™ share one aspect: they're well beyond level 300 and they've got ungodly equipment."

looks like you were stressing the wrong thing. what's this about strengthening arguments? don't strengthen your argument magically on a whim plz

as far as levels are concerned. i can't say since i'm no longer at your level. but this soft nag has been telling me i can't really go with your judgment there (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

nn opinions about childishness. i left it general since only the persons of interest will even care about that statement.

3. niten still sucks (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

(IMG:[bbs.pramool.com] http://bbs.pramool.com/webboard/pic/80.gif)

3. It's pretty apparent Tenboro just wants to make it suck deliberately because it's something that sounds "cool" but impractical in real life.

Honestly if that's Tenb true intention, just delete the darn thing then... I won't complain one bit. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Stop leading people astray then tormenting the poor soul with false hope, it's excruciating... Please, release them... Stop this madness... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

This post has been edited by buktore: Apr 18 2012, 12:29

"The Overkillers™ share one aspect: they're well beyond level 300 and they've got ungodly equipment."

looks like you were stressing the wrong thing. what's this about strengthening arguments? don't strengthen your argument magically on a whim plz

I was stressing the right part all right. There's an "and" there, what follows is an addendum. Hierarchy must mean something to you. In fact I said in a previous post this:

The point is that the mage elite got bored with a given playstyle and they're powerful enough that switching to melee takes no effort at all and they've got more equips they'll ever need for any style they fancy.

I'm positive they could melee in full phase with a dagger for hundreds of rounds and I'm just as positive a random user trying the same would get his ass handed to him in a few rounds.

Note that the first sentence's got two conjunctions... Hierarchy applies here too. Reading comprehension FTW.

The last sentence is confirmed by your statement, strengthening my position as i said before. The quotes provide you a timestamp, just to get the order of events right. So i didn't magically shift my position one bit.

You attempted a straw man argument here. That's a big no-no, it automagically beams you up to the wrong side.

as far as levels are concerned. i can't say since i'm no longer at your level. but this soft nag has been telling me i can't really go with your judgment there (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Soft nag? Are you shitting me? The tongue-in-cheek Overkillers™? This is unbelievable. That TM there is a dead giveaway of the joking tone. I'm aiming for those heights!

nn opinions about childishness. i left it general since only the persons of interest will even care about that statement.

Sorry to burst your bubble, that's not how the world works: you should address your statements, otherwise you end up with an overgeneralization which, by definition, encompasses everyone. That's another big no-no when calling people trolls.

You're wrong on all accounts, that's a nifty en plein there!

I'm too lazy to 'shop a battlecaster weapon in (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

(IMG:[bbs.pramool.com] http://bbs.pramool.com/webboard/pic/80.gif)
Honestly if that's Tenb true intention, just delete the darn thing then... I won't complain one bit. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Stop leading people astray then tormenting the poor soul with false hope, it's excruciating... Please, release them... Stop this madness... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

Nah, it will eventually become something like sword chuck, montage and healer: you start to like them AFTER they're removed.

One possible way is to remove the domino strike's limit; seriously, if you want to keep your prof you can't go solely on niten, so why there's a limit in the first place?
You don't really need to distinguish katana in 2H and katana in niten; just make katana and waki be a combo that, when used together, will be more powerful.

One possible way is to remove the domino strike's limit; seriously, if you want to keep your prof you can't go solely on niten, so why there's a limit in the first place?
You don't really need to distinguish katana in 2H and katana in niten; just make katana and waki be a combo that, when used together, will be more powerful.

That'd be nice.

Another option could be a NI proficiency that works like the Spiritual one, only based on DW and 2H. Maybe someone already suggested this, too...

That'd be nice.

Another option could be a NI proficiency that works like the Spiritual one, only based on DW and 2H. Maybe someone already suggested this, too...

Isn't it already like that? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
Edit: I misunderstood it. Each prof partially comes into play, not contributing to an average like spiritual.

This post has been edited by LangTuTaiHoa: Apr 18 2012, 14:10

It's not the playstyle the deciding factor here. The Overkillers™ share one aspect: they're well beyond level 300 and they've got ungodly equipment. I've seen a death scythe, ethereal ça va sans dire, with base damage of 61,5 raised by 35% amongst all its 80+ upgrades. That's a mindboggling amount of credits in bindings and materials we're talking about(*). If I used that at my level it'd give me a 1000+ base damage, its rightful owner can benefit from 1800+ damage per hit. All this without taking into consideration all his stat and gear bonuses. I'd be surprised if he didn't last 200 rounds on BT pianoing on the numpad.

The point is, I doubt a mage could achieve the same results even if he had an ungodly and fully-upgraded Phase set, unless he could consistently one-shot entire rounds on BT.
I have a decent (not upgraded) dark Phase set and I can barely one-shot on Normal (thanks to the lovely HP buff), so I don't see that happening.

Must've missed sumthin. What's the point of nerfing resist? It's friggen useless anyway since custom mobs don't deal magical damage right? So it's only a nice to have bonus as it stands.