[X] My Assistant

Melees are whining /popcorn.

Who's whining?

@Evil Scorpio

Hey! I'm on your 'side'! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ... Can't you see that what I'm trying do was to proves that the 'Melee is OP!' our enemy kept saying is baseless and completely wrong!? (IMG:[bbs.pramool.com] http://bbs.pramool.com/webboard/pic/91.gif)

Only a certain equipment configuration, which is a very small part* of melee as a whole, is a little bit more powerful than others. Get it!? Just a part of it!

Melee is more powerful than mage...? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Hah! Don't make me laugh! ... It sucks since 0.4.0 patch almost 2 years ago, what exactly make our enemy think that this will changed now!? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
**: Albeit a very popular one! ;P

i think melees are more powerful than mage .

I can hardly complete 300 round of Crystfest on normal . but cryomorph can complete 500+ round of crystfest on BATTLETOAD (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) in just 45 minutes (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

This post has been edited by Annoyed: Apr 18 2012, 08:12

i think melees are more powerful than mage .

I can hardly complete 300 round of Crystfest on normal . but cryomorph can complete 500+ round of crystfest on BATTLETOAD (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) in just 45 minutes (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Only because of shards. Otherwise melees will be buttfucked there as much as mages.

Only because of shards. Otherwise melees will be buttfucked there as much as mages.

But then as shard is formally introduced (and easy to get), I think it's legit to say melees get a boost, right?

This post has been edited by varst: Apr 18 2012, 08:23

But then as shard is formally introduced (and easy to get), I think it's legit to say melees get a boost, right?

Yes , it is (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Only because of shards. Otherwise melees will be buttfucked there as much as mages.

So, you are kinda saying mages need shards that would make them able to kick ass too.

Just wait, soon we will get a bunch of useless shards that boost things no one uses, kinda like most bindings!

@danixxx

(IMG:[i0.kym-cdn.com] http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/026/futuramafry.jpg)

i think melees are more powerful than mage .

I can hardly complete 300 round of Crystfest on normal . but cryomorph can complete 500+ round of crystfest on BATTLETOAD (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) in just 45 minutes (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Good setup + shards + awesome connection (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

awesome connection

AFAIK this is the only way that make HV fun to play, shitty gears & character or otherwise...

But then as shard is formally introduced (and easy to get), I think it's legit to say melees get a boost, right?

Melee style became easier. That's all. And since most of people are lazy as hell - they've switched to melee.

So, you are kinda saying mages need shards that would make them able to kick ass too.

Just wait, soon we will get a bunch of useless shards that boost things no one uses, kinda like most bindings!

I don't say mages need it, 'cause I like to see mages whine and complain. "There are some things in life"... :3

The problem I can see now is that there's a cheap armor called plate, which is far superior when compared to cotton and leather.

And the problem intensifies when shard is introduced, which basically removes the only barrier that high-level melees have: B/I.
So now people can use featherweight shard on plate to have much better protection than clothes and light armors, without losing much of the evade and mana cost.

And I'm not claiming that heavy melees are far superior; it's just that plate and featherweight shard are too easy to obtain.

inb4 featherweight shard nerf from -100% to -50% B/I

-10% but stack-able up to 10 times

I think a static -5/-5 B/I would be best. Still provides a significant decrease for heavy but heavy will still have a lot of B/I. And Light could get 0/0 with good enough equips.

No, like, they really do.
Check the Highest Level Achieved thread.

For a lack of a direct source on this, let's just say the user base is in the "several thousands" range.

Now, the Overkillers™ can be counted on one hand but let's be generous here and say that they can be counted on both hands. On a several thousands user base. It's a percentile with the first significative figure after three decimal digits. We're talking about thin air.

It's not the playstyle the deciding factor here. The Overkillers™ share one aspect: they're well beyond level 300 and they've got ungodly equipment. I've seen a death scythe, ethereal ça va sans dire, with base damage of 61,5 raised by 35% amongst all its 80+ upgrades. That's a mindboggling amount of credits in bindings and materials we're talking about(*). If I used that at my level it'd give me a 1000+ base damage, its rightful owner can benefit from 1800+ damage per hit. All this without taking into consideration all his stat and gear bonuses. I'd be surprised if he didn't last 200 rounds on BT pianoing on the numpad.

(*) I upgraded my mace's strength bonus 10 times and it wiped out about 40 mid-grade metals, that's to say everything I piled up since ever, plus two.


This "grass is always greener on the other side" kind of debate is flawed. Your average joe can't compare to the Overkillers™, still your average joe is the only one to take into account to figure out if something is sucky/viable/overthetop. You can't base anything on what the Overkillers™ do, because they're overpowered in and of themselves.

I was thinking like: why the melee vs mage shitstorm started again when I was asleep? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

What I've said is that mages/melees can excel in different things: melees in its low MP consumption and the ability to play in higher difficulty without getting killed, and mages in its fast-paced style and the ability to replenish MP/SP.

If you're comparing mage/melee with its overall performace, it's like asking two students to take exams on different sujbects, then adding the scores to reach one 'overall performance score' and solely compare on that. It's freaking inconstructive and wasting everyone's time in the arguments.
Generalization usually comes with bad results.

There's glaringly obvious balance problems, not all of which would be addressed. That in itself is something I refuse to comment on.

What I do know is that melees take 30 minutes to finish what a mage could in 10-15. Unfortunately, as a light armor user, I can instantly see that cloth armor doesn't have even half the amount of protection we have through high evade from equipment.

The problem with the game now in terms of survivability is that cloth armor gets a bonus to magical mitigation (which is quite plainly worthless as the game is now since 99.9% of all mobs do physical damage) rather than evade. If the bonus was switched from 0.7% magical mitigation to 0.35-0.5% evade per 10 prof cloth armor survivability would be level with the amount of risk taken.

This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Apr 18 2012, 10:30

cool i'm an overkiller by spending less than 100k buying from level 250's/lower (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

don't think it's really a shitstorm. just a few wannabe trolls. i've been using magic for quite some time now but with the recent changes melee is simply more economical + efficient. to demand a balance isn't right though because it's nearly impossible to make the 2 equal.

best solution is to just use both styles. makes the game much more varied.

edit: i should add econimcal + efficient + *safe/sturdy*

mages are faster without a doubt.

edit 2: "isn't right" should be replaced by "will be difficult"

This post has been edited by dcherry: Apr 18 2012, 10:44

don't think it's really a shitstorm. just a few wannabe trolls. i've been using magic for quite some time now but with the recent changes melee is simply more econimcal + efficient + *safe/sturdy*. to demand a balance [will be difficult] though because it's nearly impossible to make the 2 equal.

I'm not asking for the two to be equal in effectiveness (as that's obviously impossible) but I think the game mechanics need more examination in terms of how the game already is, not how the game is going to "be", which is the source of all existing balance problems. System changes for how the system is going to "be" should be made only when it's fully implemented. The OC damage bonus removal and improvement of the melee skill mechanics in the patch afterwards is an example of this.

This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Apr 18 2012, 10:49

I would foresee a patch where you can choose to deal elemental damage (based on INT) or physical damage (based on STR), which has been mentioned by Tenb before.
This alone would solve the following problems:
1. heavy melees stacking defense with protection (you'll need to spread between physical and magical mitigation)
2. the indifference between plate and shield (shield will be better because you can block both physical and magical attacks)
3. the magical mitigation boost from clothes (with monsters shifting to magical attacks, the amount of damage dealt to mages will decrease)

However, there will be some other problems
1. melees will have more reliance on mace (stun) again because of the extra damage from monsters
2. shatter strike is still too useful
3. niten still sucks (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

@dcherry
I also think people should use both styles; unfortunately it's quite impossible in terms of AP at lower levels, unless you're trying to use the bleeding style.

This post has been edited by varst: Apr 18 2012, 10:54