[X] My Assistant

Primarily due to the rise of AI generated content, it has become increasingly desirable to split some of the site's existing categories. We have devised an outline for a suggested new set of categories, consisting of a main categories that largely correspond to today's categories (sans Western, plus Comics), where some of the main categories will also have a number of subcategories corresponding to where/how they were created. The new set of categories we are considering are currently:

CODE

Doujinshi
Manga
Non-H
Cosplay
(Western/3D/AI/<blank>) Game CG
(Western/3D/AI/<blank>) Artist CG
(Western/3D/AI/<blank>) Image Set
(Western/3D/AI) Comics
Misc

Basically, "Doujinshi" "Manga" and "Non-H" will not have subcategories and will be reserved for "native" content that the site was originally designed for (non-3D/non-AI with Japanese/Asian origin). Similarly, Cosplay is only for real people cosplaying.

Game CG, Artist CG and Image Set will be split into four subcategories, with a native subcategory corresponding to existing usage, and three new ones for Western, 3D and AI content respectively.

Additionally, we're planning to add a Comics main category for non-native content only, with the same three subcategories.

All categories except for Non-H and Misc are still implicitly H-only. Non-H Western/3D/AI content is considered irrelevant, and will all go in Misc like today.

The reclass tags for the main category and subcategory will be separate. In other words, to class something as a 3D Image Set, you would upvote r:3d and r:image_set - this is primarily done for legacy compatibility reasons, but also because it allows considering the main category and subcategory separately when tagging - say if there is a dispute whether something is an "image set" or an "artist CG", or whether something is drawn or AI.

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Specifically, the feedback we're looking for is: (this list may be modified)

1. Overall feedback on the new structure, mostly if people can spot some fatal weaknesses for relevant content.

2. For Game CG, should we go with two subcategories only (Native/Western) classed by who released it, or would it be helpful to further subcategories it by adding 3D and AI? Note that in the latter case, native and western content would both go in 3D if is a 3D game.

3. For dealing with galleries that contain mixed content as far as the subcategory goes, should we add another subcategory "Mixed" that will be used unless the gallery is at least x% of one particular type of content, or go with a majority rule for determining subcategory? Say if we have an image set of an Asian artist that contains 40% drawn content, 30% 3D and 30% AI, should this qualify for the (native) "Image Set" category or go in a new "Mixed Image Set" category?

2. For Game CG, should we go with two subcategories only (Native/Western) classed by who released it, or would it be helpful to further subcategories it by adding 3D and AI? Note that in the latter case, native and western content would both go in 3D if is a 3D game.

Trying to separate 3D / AI content based on country of origin will always be messy, so they should have their own sub-category. Especially when artist CG / image sets do, I don't see any reason to give game CG special treatment.

3. For dealing with galleries that contain mixed content as far as the subcategory goes, should we add another subcategory "Mixed" that will be used unless the gallery is at least x% of one particular type of content, or go with a majority rule for determining subcategory? Say if we have an image set of an Asian artist that contains 40% drawn content, 30% 3D and 30% AI, should this qualify for the (native) "Image Set" category or go in a new "Mixed Image Set" category?

In my experience, strongly mixed galleries of that kind are usually of rather low value (in lack of a nicer term, I'm thinking something like a "my fav naruto pics" image dump). They currently go in misc and I think it's proper for them to not clutter up the "more importantant" categories, so they should either continue to go into misc or have their own "Mixed" category (I prefer the latter). I'd even say that anything that doesn't clearly have something around 75% of consistent content should go there.

1. Overall feedback on the new structure, mostly if people can spot some fatal weaknesses for relevant content.

I think the categorization based on artist nationality remains a flaw, as that is just an approximation of what people expect (a certain art style) with many pitfalls. However, I cannot think of any straightforward alternative that would provide better & more reliable results. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Other than that, I do believe we should use this change to allow categorization of irrelevant content. I do not yet see the point of denying subcategories for non-h for example. If this is just done to underline the irrelevancy of said content, I feel like other measures should be taken to emphasize that (e.g. having the selection of those subcategories be disabled by default when browsing).



Other than that I think it looks pretty solid!

Since 3d and AI don't have the subcategories currently tagged, where will all those be reclassed to until there is a massive effort to reclass them to their subcategories?

Is Asian Porn being nuked?

3. For dealing with galleries that contain mixed content as far as the subcategory goes, should we add another subcategory "Mixed" that will be used unless the gallery is at least x% of one particular type of content, or go with a majority rule for determining subcategory? Say if we have an image set of an Asian artist that contains 40% drawn content, 30% 3D and 30% AI, should this qualify for the (native) "Image Set" category or go in a new "Mixed Image Set" category?

I think the work counting the contents of all those (low quality) galleries, and reclassing them is not worth it.

One solution would be keeping the 3d and ai generated tags, so that people can filter them as they want, but making ai generated tagable probably leads to more abuse?

I'd be happier with either a mixed category, or just sticking those mixed galleries into misc.

2. For Game CG, should we go with two subcategories only (Native/Western) classed by who released it, or would it be helpful to further subcategories it by adding 3D and AI? Note that in the latter case, native and western content would both go in 3D if is a 3D game.

Definitely have a 3D and AI Game CG subcategory.

I've seen a bunch of 3D rpgm games on dlsite, and AI games are steadily growing too. No point in trying to figure out the nationality of 3d game devs, especially with illusion being very popular for both jp and western game devs.

This post has been edited by -terry-: Nov 3 2023, 15:38

Additionally, we're planning to add a Comics main category for non-native content only, with the same three subcategories.

Would Ai generated "doujins" go there? I think I saw couple of chinese(?) ones.

2. For Game CG, should we go with two subcategories only (Native/Western) classed by who released it, or would it be helpful to further subcategories it by adding 3D and AI? Note that in the latter case, native and western content would both go in 3D if is a 3D game.

I don't see a reason why game cg shouldn't be categorised by being 3d or ai generated.

3. For dealing with galleries that contain mixed content as far as the subcategory goes, should we add another subcategory "Mixed" that will be used unless the gallery is at least x% of one particular type of content, or go with a majority rule for determining subcategory? Say if we have an image set of an Asian artist that contains 40% drawn content, 30% 3D and 30% AI, should this qualify for the (native) "Image Set" category or go in a new "Mixed Image Set" category?

For "mixed" better option would be to not have at least x% of a certain type (e.g. 50).

I think the categorization based on artist nationality remains a flaw, as that is just an approximation of what people expect (a certain art style) with many pitfalls. However, I cannot think of any straightforward alternative that would provide better & more reliable results. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

South east asian artists are becoming more and more indistinguishable from western ones. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Since 3d and AI don't have the subcategories currently tagged, where will all those be reclassed to until there is a massive effort to reclass them to their subcategories?

They do, 'AI Generated' and '3d'

Edit: my bad, misread.

They'd probably continue to live in misc until the work is done for them to be moved.

This post has been edited by Cipher-kun: Nov 3 2023, 17:08

They do, 'AI Generated' and '3d'

They lack the subcategory like "western imageset" "comic" and "western cg"

Edit::

Also, where do western Game CGs go to right now? If western category, do they usually get tagged 'western cg', 'western imageset' or not at all?

This post has been edited by -terry-: Nov 3 2023, 17:12

Also, where do western Game CGs go to right now? If western category, do they usually get tagged 'western cg', 'western imageset' or not at all?

Western category + western cg tag
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/western_cg

Western category + western cg tag
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/western_cg

Sounds like a lot of manual work with the subcategories.

Aigh. My feedback, from my general casual user point of view.

1. Slightly too complicated for nothing.
1.1 As much as AI is a thing, I don't see why we should have subcategories for that. AI should be a tag as it isn't inhenrently different from Wester/3D/<blank> in general style besides that it's been generated by a robot rather than with sweat. People search for Western/3D/<blank> first and foremost, it being generated by AI is secondary to that, especially when there might be a day when we will barely tell if a picture is generated by AI or not.
1.2 I'd say that 3D as a whole certainly deserves at least a category of its own, but subcategories for games, artists and image sets? Not sure, especially when barely anyone cares about 3D comics at all. You're going to make things overly complicated for nothing. Dunno about ya'll, but when I see 3D, I don't give a damn if it comes from a game (it's gonna be pr0n from a Skyrim mod or something anyway), if it comes from a guy who felt like doing funny things with 3D models and an engine, or if it's the same guy who felt like doing the two former but he also slapped speech bubbles on the rendered pictures.

2. Refer to my 1.1. We need neither 3D nor AI for that.

3. I'd go for strong majority rule. Such galleries are a very, very edge case and their quantity is so little that it shouldn't warrant a category for that. If a gallery is really about roughly half of each, then I'd suggest that we use <blank> by default, as the gallery still decently qualifies for it. And if they still bother people, just throw them in the Misc pile, period. Those galleries are usually shitty anyway or a user made compilation, so why bothering?

This post has been edited by KitsuneAbby: Nov 3 2023, 17:50

for 2. Game CG

- for me it's mainly about the type of artwork when it comes to games. I don't care about the country of the publisher. When playing, the language may be a thing (although there are tools for that), but for Game CG that's not important.
- There are great hentai-style games, but there are also some very good western h-games (what a legend, e.g.). Even some decent 3d-based games
- Conclusion: I would like to have all game CG in one category (not Native vs. Western), with subcategory of 3d, AI

1. Seems a bit complicated, but as log as filtering western, 3D and AI is easy enough, should be fine.

3. I don't want to see any AI stuff, so as long as there will be a way to filter it out completely, be it with a mixed tag or something else, should be fine.

I like the addition of comic category.

So a "3D manga/doujinshi" would just go to 3D comic, right? There is no point to differentiate western and eastern content when we talk about 3D.

All categories except for Non-H and Misc are still implicitly H-only. Non-H Western/3D/AI content is considered irrelevant, and will all go in Misc like today.

Personally, I'd still prefer to have the non-H content in the same category they should be if they were H (non-H comic, non-H 3D, non-H CG...).

2. For Game CG, should we go with two subcategories only (Native/Western) classed by who released it, or would it be helpful to further subcategories it by adding 3D and AI? Note that in the latter case, native and western content would both go in 3D if is a 3D game.

Add 3D and AI, no point to differentiate western and eastern content when we talk about 3D.

3. For dealing with galleries that contain mixed content as far as the subcategory goes, should we add another subcategory "Mixed" that will be used unless the gallery is at least x% of one particular type of content, or go with a majority rule for determining subcategory? Say if we have an image set of an Asian artist that contains 40% drawn content, 30% 3D and 30% AI, should this qualify for the (native) "Image Set" category or go in a new "Mixed Image Set" category?

I think mixed content should be a tag instead of a new subcategory, like we have the themeless tag. The subcategory should go to the majority rule and the x% should be 25% (this site likes this number), so if at least 25% of the content isn't part of the proper subcategory, it gets the mixed content tag.

I think the categorization based on artist nationality remains a flaw, as that is just an approximation of what people expect (a certain art style) with many pitfalls. However, I cannot think of any straightforward alternative that would provide better & more reliable results. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

There was a vote on that some years ago, to go by "style" rather than nationality, and it was overwhelmingly rejected.

Other than that, I do believe we should use this change to allow categorization of irrelevant content. I do not yet see the point of denying subcategories for non-h for example. If this is just done to underline the irrelevancy of said content, I feel like other measures should be taken to emphasize that (e.g. having the selection of those subcategories be disabled by default when browsing).

Non-H is the one additional category this might work for, I don't think it would be at all relevant for anything else. But really, how many people come here for things that both aren't porn and aren't Japanese/Asian origin?

Since 3d and AI don't have the subcategories currently tagged, where will all those be reclassed to until there is a massive effort to reclass them to their subcategories?

They would probably default to "3D Image Set" and "AI Image Set" until/unless classed otherwise.

Is Asian Porn being nuked?

It was nuked 10+ years ago. It'll probably still be accessible, there just won't be a visible UI for it.

Would Ai generated "doujins" go there? I think I saw couple of chinese(?) ones.

So a "3D manga/doujinshi" would just go to 3D comic, right? There is no point to differentiate western and eastern content when we talk about 3D.

AI/3D "doujinshi" and "manga" would go in "AI/3D Comics" with the rest of the junk. At least unless it's not specified as such, and is indistinguishable from drawn content.

Personally, I'd still prefer to have the non-H content in the same category they should be if they were H (non-H comic, non-H 3D, non-H CG...).

I considered having "Non-H" as a subcategory, but the biggest problem is that supporting more than one subcategory at a time would be difficult to represent visually.

If we have "AI Image Set" it could be distinguished as a blue button with a different-colored border, but if we have a "Non-H AI Image Set", I have no idea how this could be represented in a compact way that would fit everywhere it needs to. We also don't want to have an uncontrolled category explosion, and if everything becomes a subcategory, that's what we'll have.

Non-H is the one additional category this might work for, I don't think it would be at all relevant for anything else. But really, how many people come here for things that both aren't porn and aren't Japanese/Asian origin?

I don't think western/3d/AI non-h is relevant either. Still, allowing categorization of irrelevant non-h content may have benefits. If a user stumbles upon a gallery in the index that's in "3D Non-h", it's a lot more informative than "Misc" (both for users not caring about 3D non-h and the rare user looking for it). That's honestly the only good usability benefit I can think of, other benefits are more of an organizational nature and that it seems more consistent to me.
On the other hand, I don't see major detriments in having western/3d/AI non-h as categories.

They would probably default to "3D Image Set" and "AI Image Set" until/unless classed otherwise.

As it currently stand, converting existing galleries that are tagged "3d imageset" to "3D Image Set" and the rest to "3D Artist CG" should get the most accurate results. From my experience, 3d galleries are in CG format most of the time (~80% if I had to guess) and games are the exception.

Example of mu current use of categories (because something more subjective and more tied on purpose with the topic is harder to do, and it still may be helpful):

Manga & Doujinshi: They are the same thing. In theory there should be differences, in practice it doesn't help to pick or filter out content. But it's things I look into.

Cosplay: I had to check because I thought this was removed, but what was removed was something I would probably have classed with it: Asian Porn.

Private: Irrelevant in this case (I never really was sure how I myself could use this one anyway, don't like wasting space too much even if it belong to someone else (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )

Image Set: Usually avoided, as it is a huge dump of images, and the little context from tags or first image(s) can become completely irrelevant, and it has become unpractical over time.

Game CG: Not very actively looked into it, but make more sense than image sets, and there are historical things in there worth looking at once in a while. Even if putting them in favorites could just be confusing.

Non-H: There were some good ones in the past, but nowadays, I'm less active, and within that activity, I rarely run into those, so not sure how it is these days.

Misc: Some good stuff sometimes land there, as it is the "default for what fit nowhere else".

Western: Oops almost forgot it. Lots of undesired content, which make the category useful, but cannot be thrown out as easily as Image Set, as some things are similar or influenced by what could be found in Manga&Doujinshi, to the point the separation is not meaningful.

Now I'm gonna have a look again at new stuff now that I wrote all that.
...
Hmm, 3D and AI subcategories may be harder to "exclude by default", as they may match what I was looking for in Misc (not sure how you will handle games that look like doujin, and doujins that look like games lol)
I'm not sure Comics will be any change from what's currently "Western" (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)
...
It looks like it should not break everything, but who know.

edit:
(IMG:[i.imgflip.com] https://i.imgflip.com/85001k.jpg)
While my body and me don't see things the same way enough, imagining them convulsing and frothing at the mouth metaphorically feel like a pleasant spectacle. Would not really manage to get satisfaction out of it if I saw it live though. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

That aside, I'm running a bit late of my "never ending search for content to add to favourites", so I may be quite disconnected from some "recent" (not sure how far behind I am, could be a lot) changes, but that's also why I described mostly my 'current use". I especially haven't been affected negatively by AI Art in any way so far (after all, AI learned from humans, so it can look quite the same when you're looking for something specific regardless of the artists or their origins)

This post has been edited by uareader: Nov 5 2023, 21:57

Tenboro,

Wouldn't it be simpler if you created a "AI Generated" category (for all such content), and only within this category would be sub-categories (Image Set, Non-H, Western, Misc, etc)?

I'd rather just have this

Comics

CODE

- [b]non-H[/b]
-- Western Comics
-- Doujins

- [b]Adult/Hentai[/b]
-- Western Comics
-- Doujinshi

- Artbook/Illustration

Manga

CODE

- Japanese Tankoubon/Manga
- Japanese Bunko/Novels  separate from manga, because novels are mostly 90% text and 10% art)
- Korean Manhwa (Webtoon)

CG

(Instead of having 2-4 separate CG categories, these can be grouped into only 2 categories split to 4 sub-categories)

CODE

- [b]Western[/b]
-- Artist CGs
-- Image CGs
-- 3D-CGi  (what would be the Misc category is now a sub-category under here)
-- Game CGs

- [b]Asian/Pacific[/b]
-- Artist CGs
-- Image CGs
-- 3D-CGi (what would be the Misc category is now a sub-category under here)
-- Game CGs

Misc

CODE

AI-generated 2D
AI-generated 3D

IRL

CODE

- Asian Porn
- Cosplay

Basically, "Doujinshi" "Manga" and "Non-H" will not have subcategories and will be reserved for "native" content that the site was originally designed for (non-3D/non-AI with Japanese/Asian origin). Similarly, Cosplay is only for real people cosplaying.

Game CG, Artist CG and Image Set will be split into four subcategories, with a native subcategory corresponding to existing usage, and three new ones for Western, 3D and AI content respectively.

Would this mean that H game manuals would now be able to be categorized under eastern image sets instead of in misc?
I would argue that H game manuals (that contain art) are within the scope of what the site was designed for originally and should be in one of those categories.

Most of all I really want to see AI crap recategorized.

I also would for the most part would support Jo.To's suggestion.

This post has been edited by dragontamer8740: Nov 19 2023, 21:45

We will not provide categorization for irrelevant content (like non-H western stuff) since it'll implicitly encourage people to post it. We also want the added categorization to be backwards-compatible with existing categories and tags, since there simply isn't enough manpower to recategorize everything. This is mostly about splitting the "Western" and "Misc" categories into more manageable chunks, a more fundamental revamp is off the table.

We could consider adding new categories for Novels and possibly also Artbooks, though I'm not really sure if the latter is sufficiently different from Artist CG to deserve its own category?

We could consider adding new categories for Novels and possibly also Artbooks, though I'm not really sure if the latter is sufficiently different from Artist CG to deserve its own category?

I think it would be better to create a category for the entire "official publication" (only Non-H). This would gather in the same category magazines (anime, game, tokusatsu, hobby), books, novels, artbooks, game manuals, pamphlets (distributed in theaters or in large events), booklets (CD, DVD, BD scans), calendars, product catalogs (for example, toys), produced by Japanese publishers.

Currently these galleries are spread mainly in Non-H, Image Set and Misc.

This post has been edited by Basara Nekki: Nov 20 2023, 16:18