[X] My Assistant

It's likely we've severely underestimated the human population due to discounting rural areas.

China's population is lower than projected. Many of the models that predicted a higher population counted an extra 100 million for China when they are actually short 50-200 million.

[www.sciencealert.com] https://www.sciencealert.com/earth-could-ha...e-ever-realized

It's likely we've severely underestimated the human population due to discounting rural areas. While I'm not going to give any specific figure without more evidence, it's likely above 8.2 billion (which is already not a small number!)

I don't think the world is going to be a very nice place to be born into in the near or long term future. For that and other reasons, I got sterilized a few years ago. I also donate to charities to educate girls, as educated girls will have fewer, healthier children. There's a lot of horrible things going on that I, unfortunately, have no control over. This is one of the few I can control in some small way, so I've acted in what I believe to be the most ethical way available.

It's also worth noting that the Global North (distinct from the Northern Hemisphere) consumes far more resources than the Global South does. Waste generation correlates heavily with wealth, and yet with climate change, the poorest countries will bear the worst of it despite having the least responsibility for creating it. I also expect this to be exacerbated by recent elections.

[en.wikipedia.org] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_North_and_Global_South

Sterilizing yourself to make the world a better place for... who exactly? The whole point of caring about the future is the implication of future human generations. There are trillions of planets untouched by humans out in the galaxy. The only thing making Earth special for us or worth protecting at all is the fact that humans live here.

I can't say much about the Economical/Logistical perspectives, since it simply isn't "my Metier".
However I can say that sociologically, this demographic shift causes some heavy issues.

In my country, there are almost thrice as many 50-90-year-olds than there are 20-50-year-olds.
I took that cutoff point because the likelihood of a citizen above the age of ca. 40 being capable of understanding and comfortably navigating the internet and modern digital media drops drastically, but not to zero.
Anyway, this causes several major issues:

With the skyrocketing cost-of-life and housing prices, the "fit to work" are already overburdened but have to prepare their asses even harder because, within the next decade and onward, their tax money has to support several times the amount of pensioners per capita.

Pensions have also not been properly inflation-corrected, so an overwhelming amount of elderly live in abject poverty despite having wasted their lives to wage-slavery. That, understandably, causes them to be rather disgruntled.
Unfortunately, that absolutely justified anger gets vented on unjustified targets, such as immigrants, the disabled, the sickly and communists (It's always the commies ffs) because it's a lot harder to question the fundamentally unjust and exploitative system we live in, and even harder than that to reflect on your own life choices and concede that you yourself had a hand in your lot, having wasted your unfulfilling life being a wage-slave for said exploitative system. (It's more complex than that, but you get my point.)
In contrast to that, hating on the Foreign and Different™ is just so, so much easier and satisfying, as Warhammer 40k has taught us. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Let's get back to that cutoff point I made, grouping people into being "digitally native" vs. not knowing how computer work:

The lack of Information Hygiene and Media Competency in this clear majority of the population presents a very potent Petri dish for the spread of disinformation, emotional/alternative facts and socially destructive radicalizing stances.

To speak plainly:
The elderly are endangering civil liberty and the foundations of our democracy because their burgeoning senility, coupled with a stubborn entitlement and a refusal to learn new ways is met by predominantly extreme-right-wing/Fascistoid/anti-democratic Actors, who use a type of Grandchild scam to instrumentalize stupid crusty boomers into giving their Votes to said Actors' troublingly inhumane agendas because said crusty boomers can't tell apart an AI image with reality for shit.
It wouldn't matter if everyone across the ideological/philosophical spectrum would "play dirty" that way. That would return things to a halfway normal distribution, but as it stands, Nazis are excellent at making old men yell at clouds.

This issue has gotten rampant enough that some circles seriously start thinking about revoking a citizen's right to vote at the age of about 80.
That is its whole own can of worms and from my POV could only solve surface-level issues temporarily, with the whole point becoming moot in a generation or so, when digital natives have become the new elderly. And the state wouldn't be capable to implement this change within the next 5-10 years since it would be a deep cut into our "unalienable" part of the constitution. So IMO that debate seems rather pointless.

Anyway, I wonder how that translates to other nations with a similar demographic trend.

I can say it feels relatable where I am.

It's not economics, poor people have plenty of kids, it's just gynocentrism gone off the deep end. You have to take SEVERAL legal and cultural privileges away from women that have artificially put them way above men, and made the latter group second class, and even then you still have to wait like two generations for the old people to die out and relations start to fix between the sexes.

It's not economics, poor people have plenty of kids, it's just gynocentrism gone off the deep end. You have to take SEVERAL legal and cultural privileges away from women that have artificially put them way above men, and made the latter group second class, and even then you still have to wait like two generations for the old people to die out and relations start to fix between the sexes.

I do not think you need to take rights away, I think you'd just need to fix the family courts. In almost every western country activist judges have ruined the family courts. It seems like they incentivize divorce. A mother has to have a criminal record and be in rehab as well as have a history of abuse with child services to 'lose' in family court. Even then of the cases I've seen, she can appeal a few years later and have a good chance of winning.

In the middle east its the opposite, once the kids are over a certain age then men just win. In my country they have passed new draconian laws for family court that hit everyone but are literally targeted at Muslims and Indians.


We now have all these new categories of offenses and abuses that we had not even thought of before to tip the scales in court.
-Denying a woman access to finances so she can divorce you is a crime.
-The threat of being denied access to (religious - usually but not always Islamic) communities if women want a divorce is crime.
-The threat of being disowned and shunned by (Indian) relatives if they divorce is a crime.
-They also added non-physical violence and coercive control, so if they think you are gaslighting that is a crime.
-Gaslighting is a crime for men (but 90% of the time it is done by women). If you deny that delusional feels are real, that is a crime.


Then you have the real big problem hitting everyone which is the cost of living. Housing here is insane and the government is just making it worse. I literally could not afford my own apartment if I wanted to buy it today, and I only bought a few years ago. The classic dream was to own a house with a yard in an okay area to raise some kids.
You now have to be in the top 10% 5% 2% of house hold income earners if you have not already entered the market a decade ago.

Fuck, I checked and its gotten worse, to buy a house in my region you now need a household income of $280-340k.

This post has been edited by EsotericSatire: Sep 2 2025, 02:01

Funny in my region to buy a very cheap house, you still need a 50% of housing costs to median income with a 30 years mortatge plan and a down payment equivalent to at least 3 years of gross median income.

Nobody is going to breed, except those are rich, or new immigrants.

This post has been edited by Sad Penguin: Sep 13 2025, 12:14

Funny in my region to buy a very cheap house, you still need a 50% of housing costs to median income with a 30 years mortatge plan and a down payment equivalent to at least 3 years of gross median income.

Nobody is going to breed, except those are rich, or new immigrants.

Yeah its similar here, you need an income or household income of $280k to buy the median house with 20% deposit of $300k. The median income in the same region is $72.5k and the average is 98k.

$220k income for a small 3 bedroom house.


For an individual that is top 1-2% income or top 4-8% of household incomes. Its getting a bit brutal here.

I do not think you need to take rights away, I think you'd just need to fix the family courts. In almost every western country activist judges have ruined the family courts. It seems like they incentivize divorce. A mother has to have a criminal record and be in rehab as well as have a history of abuse with child services to 'lose' in family court. Even then of the cases I've seen, she can appeal a few years later and have a good chance of winning.

In the middle east its the opposite, once the kids are over a certain age then men just win. In my country they have passed new draconian laws for family court that hit everyone but are literally targeted at Muslims and Indians.
We now have all these new categories of offenses and abuses that we had not even thought of before to tip the scales in court.
-Denying a woman access to finances so she can divorce you is a crime.
-The threat of being denied access to (religious - usually but not always Islamic) communities if women want a divorce is crime.
-The threat of being disowned and shunned by (Indian) relatives if they divorce is a crime.
-They also added non-physical violence and coercive control, so if they think you are gaslighting that is a crime.
-Gaslighting is a crime for men (but 90% of the time it is done by women). If you deny that delusional feels are real, that is a crime.
Then you have the real big problem hitting everyone which is the cost of living. Housing here is insane and the government is just making it worse. I literally could not afford my own apartment if I wanted to buy it today, and I only bought a few years ago. The classic dream was to own a house with a yard in an okay area to raise some kids.
You now have to be in the top 10% 5% 2% of house hold income earners if you have not already entered the market a decade ago.

Fuck, I checked and its gotten worse, to buy a house in my region you now need a household income of $280-340k.

Family courts is a big part of the whole "putting women above men" I was talking about, this Roman-style humiliation and division and conquering that the state has adopted is not only present in western countries but a lot of third world countries as well. The whole family courts is a racket and a lot of people depend on this racket that they use to fleece men that just want to build a family and a legacy. Back then before this state intervention in the family existed families were exceedingly numerous, and women were far happier than they are right now as well, the bad, women-beating men usually got lynched, and everything was much better than it is right now.
For the record, I don't blame women for this current situation at all, it's just a small group of very evil men that are using the state and the mangina logic/excuse of "protecting women" as if they were newborn children to make bank by unethical means, and in the process these genuine civilizational parasites are killing the host nations that they inhabit.
Even though it's slowly changing to become gynocentric (and muslim men should be petrified of this prospect and get-back from the women), I do not condone whatsoever the whole Middle East situation, it's the opposite end of the spectrum, and is bad for both men and women. Women are with men that they do not want, and men are affection starved even though they are paying for these adult women and the crotch fruit they have out of pure peer pressure, rather than love, affection, respect, and a genuine desire to carry on their family legacy.
My solution is to let things be rather than use the state to intervene in the family life of people. If a woman wants out of a relationship, let her be, the same thing with men, let people have freedom of association, separate portions rather than a family pool of wealth, and stop putting perverse incentives to make contracts with the state, and break them.

Something I forgot to add for some reason, is that while the whole gynocentrism thing in both the law and culture puts the breaks on prudent men to become family men, the whole "pension", "public retirement" scam is very likely the main reason for this collapse in natality. People, not just women, think the state will take care of them in their old age, rather than their kids, and for decades this seemed to hold true, as the Ponzi scheme worked in the state's favor, but because people are not having enough kids the whole thing will either collapse on top of the imprudent oldheads, or the fewer kids being born will be burdened like modern day serfs to "take care" of these gigantic blocks of old people at the vehest of the state. Evidence of this gerontocracy is happening as I type this in certain countries of Europe like Spain or Italy.

Yeah its similar here, you need an income or household income of $280k to buy the median house with 20% deposit of $300k. The median income in the same region is $72.5k and the average is 98k.

$220k income for a small 3 bedroom house.
For an individual that is top 1-2% income or top 4-8% of household incomes. Its getting a bit brutal here.

Same, except there is a weird cultural phenomenon that is also to blame. Most of my generation seems to think that to reproduce everything needs to be set up just perfect ahead of time, and the standards have never been as high. Even the boomers weren't as picky, and at least they had the housing market and income to actually allow for that.

That is basically the reason why "nobody can afford to have children" yet the immigrants from countries with a different culture still somehow manage to pump out 6 kids in the same economy and they all survive into adulthood just fine.

Well if this means more job opportunity and better life quality, I am for it, but if it means bad future, I might reflect more...

At close to 10 billion people we can't just keep doubling the population every 50 years. Clearly the world cannot support 100 trillion humans (as it is we've already killed off like 90% of macroscopic life on the planet). So slowing is inevitable and we'll need to adopt to an economy that doesn't require constant exponential population growth to continue, or it would mean the equivalent of companies growing until they get bust: Earth's population balloons until billions die off and the cycle repeats.

Either way, we're not short of people and I imagine the birth rate would rebound the moment this becomes an actual existential threat rather than an economic one.

At close to 10 billion people we can't just keep doubling the population every 50 years. Clearly the world cannot support 100 trillion humans (as it is we've already killed off like 90% of macroscopic life on the planet). So slowing is inevitable and we'll need to adopt to an economy that doesn't require constant exponential population growth to continue, or it would mean the equivalent of companies growing until they get bust: Earth's population balloons until billions die off and the cycle repeats.

Either way, we're not short of people and I imagine the birth rate would rebound the moment this becomes an actual existential threat rather than an economic one.

Unfortunately "we" do have shortage of people, or young labour force, or slaves or whatever you wanna call em. "We" just don't need those increasing elders who are burdening the society for coming decades, or those expensive native labour force with more bargaining power to the employer.

That's why "we" are importing more and more immigrants from different countries with different cultures and most likely to survive with a lower living standard and still manage to breed a lot of human livestock.

Cut the wages, lower the living standard, eliminate unwanted and burdening population, the economic or social problems will then be fixed. Happening all over the world, just a matter of degree and time.

AI or whatever technology is much more expensive than a so-called human. You can't estimate how cheap human livestock could go.