[X] My Assistant

Can't you make a new, optimized search engine with pagination if your problem was the optimization?

Everything is possible and doable, and if you say otherwise, then it means you need help from someone more expert.

Maybe rollback everything and try to get some help from some expert on building a new search engine with pages that uses low resources?

Tenboro has limited time, so you can't ask him to do so much charity work for this non-profit site. But it will be quite interesting if tenboro can share gallery metadata so that people could build and test their own search solution. Although that solution won't likely to be on this site even if it outperformed the current system in every way, there any many other parts of this site that rely on each other, making change to existing system is always painful.

This post has been edited by mewsf: Nov 3 2022, 16:53

Maybe rollback everything and try to get some help from some expert on building a new search engine with pages that uses low resources?

This is an excellent idea. Please just do this.


How are there people here who are genuinely defending this god awful change?

now i just want to know
Whether to bring page number function is "absolutely ABSOLUTELY Absolutely impossible".

If the answer is yes, then, you are right and see you.

OR tag searching and exclusion-only searching are two major hits, great.

- Selecting "Search Low-Power Tags" will now only search low-power tags.

That's a bummer, I used that all the time for tag cleanup stuff in order to have "really search all galleries with that tag".


And yeah not having page numbers is a major disadvantage, but I trust that it can (and hope that it will) be mitigated by something similar to what FabulousCupcake did here. Amazing of them to post that, what a hero.

This post has been edited by peterson123: Nov 3 2022, 16:49

my complaint isn't with the page thing (though i too want it back), my complaint is with the search function. I think the expunged and low tag options in the advanced search options should ADD those of who meet that definition in the search term to the basic results your search gives you under normal search.

When changes like these are implemented, they are usually judged from the perspective of a tech-savvy admin/mod/dev who knows their site and all its functions in and out and enjoys jumping through hoops, as evidenced by their comments so far. But the average user is none of that. The average user is an instinct-driven monkey. See number? Click number. Number works. Number good. Use number again later. —Where number gone? What "GID"? How far from home is monkey? How far from end? How run faster? How return? Monkey no know.
Your users, outside of a tiny subset, are not like you. Get that out of your head.

This is actually very interesting because I think exactly the same.

This change was decided because the old system couldn't be maintained, and okay, that's an important point. So it HAD to be changed.

That's the technical point of view. Now, the answer to this issue is purely a developer one and didn't even take a single time into account what were the user cases to keep. That is UX design. And it has been completely ignored. There even haven't been any beta version to test it publicly and get the feedback before deploying, else all those complains could have been seen and addressed during development.

IDs don't mean anything to anyone. Not to users, not to database managers, not even to developers. They're mostly hidden numbers that are only here because computers work better with numbers, that's all. Even as a developer, when debugging my stuff I need to show some link between IDs and human readable information, else it's completely useless data to me.

GIDs are useless in the context of users and it shouldn't even be required to know how they work and what they represent.

Now page numbers. They convey important meaning to the human brain, because we're so used to it. Even fake page numbers could have been better than no page numbers.
Also, many people use page numbers in different ways: getting a random page to find so fap material into a search or favs, using them from memory in favs to get to a specific author work, browsing faster, or just wandering freely into results. I'm sure there's more.
And of course, knowing how many pages a search has, especially in favs, so you can know in one sight that your search replied a few/many/a lot/too much results. Having a search that returns 2 pages is not the same than a search that returns 1329 pages. Now this information is completely gone when browsing favs, and partially gone in the main gallery. You have a total item results, but then what, you need to divide that by the number of displayed items? Computers are made to do that kind of calculation in our place.

None of those uses are addressed with the new system because as I said, they was no UX research so were not studied before working on the new search engine.

Now if a rollback is no more possible, then the only possibility to get the site to be as pleasant to browse as before for everyone is to list all the previous use cases and re-implement then one by one, but it may as well end be unsatisfactory for the corner use cases that are not addressed. This may require to add complex code and cache result functions. That's unfortunately a harsh truth in computer science, to get both performance and good usability you also need code complexity. That's true for hardware (ex. modern CPUs) and for software.

Not to say this is not only a reference site but also a porn site, so when people come here 90% of time they want to find their porn fast, they only have one hand and 10% of available brain, you can ask them to fiddle with IDs or anything like this.

I'm a bit afraid actually because Tenboro does seem to be pissed at the feedbacks and not reading suggestions anymore, but lets be honest you couldn't expect people to swallow that big a change in usability without saying anything.

I'm not actually reading this thread anymore due to the heavy brigadeering. I get that it broke your favorite viewing tool, but all the reasons for why "bring back page number" isn't long-term technically feasible was already answered in the first few pages of the thread.

There are some bugs being fixed (missing galleries in favorites, some uploader search stuff and some navigation stuff), as well as a function to address the (ostensible) biggest gripe about not being able to jump to the middle of search results, but these things aren't written, tested and deployed overnight. I will however hold off on deploying the update to EH until it's ready.

>blaming the feedback on "bridadeering" and not even bothering listening to it
What???

This site has become far less functional now because of this change. You should revert the change, and talk to someone who is an expert in website design.

As always just stating my opinion and not speaking on behalf of anyone.
Beta testing is basically what we are doing now, which is why it hasn't been deployed fully. Even if there was community input before the change went live asking to not remove the page numbers, I doubt it'd have prevented it, since the change as I understand it was a requirement for technical reasons. The disappointment in the loss of page numbers has been noted, and have been replied to in the first pages of the thread. No one wants to inconvenience users, so if there is inconvenience, it is probably for good reason.

I was actually thinking about the issue not being able to find expunged and deleted galleries in the favorites folder. For the search feature, eventually people will find ways around it (3rd party apps and whatnot), but not being able to find the name of a gallery, even if it is inacessible, in the favorites folder is a huge detriment.

In addition, the beta testing should've been more limited and optional with trusted users picked. This might've resulted in more useful feedback rather than pages and pages of angry messages.

This post has been edited by greatlakes100: Nov 3 2022, 16:58

1. That's not how cursor pagination works.
2. Blindly wanting to jump to page 50 to see what's there is not a good argument. Use date filters if you need to look up to specific dates.
3. Ten is most probably the most expert on his own engine because it's custom-made by him.
4. This search is more optimized for the current state of the database being over a million rows. There are tradeoffs but this is generally better in performance when you remove the subjective "wants" of most people out of the factor.

Again, this is more of a communication issue. Letting people know in advance would've sat better on them. Even I who saw this feature inevitably coming was caught surprise by the sudden implementation, so I can imagine how the devs would feel to see their scripts suddenly broken without any warning.

How do i use those date filters? Weren't they removed? Do i have some bug on my UI?

Even if the search engine is made by him, that doesn't mean it's user friendly, having opinion of multiple people can help to solve problems and avoid the shitstorm we have now.

Having a DB with million of rows is a problem? Why?
There are caching layers, i expect only 1 query to the DB, then the next one for the same search will be cached.

The subjective "wants" is what makes the website desiderabile over other clones, and as i see, many people, including myself don't like this update mainly because of the lack of pagination.

I'm 100% sure there is a way to get both pagination and better performance

4. This search is more optimized for the current state of the database being over a million rows. There are tradeoffs but this is generally better in performance when you remove the subjective "wants" of most people out of the factor.

Yesterday we had an old but working car, and it drove quite well, and now we have a supercar without a steering wheel.

If the problem is the number of galleries, why not make a static variable equal to the most popular tag? I don't know the exact statistics, but I think that most users search either by tag or by artist or by category or all together. If we take the most popular tag as a variable, it would be about 600k maybe even less, in any case it would be better than now. Or wait for decoders who can translate GID into pagination.

I am always grateful for your help.
It is a bug report of the search system.


[Missing URL parameters]
Some of the search parameters(URL parameters) are missing in the page transition links (First, Prev, Next, Last) on the "Not all conditions met" search results screen below.

Conditions:
・Enable Browse Expunged Galleries
・Enable Require Gallery Torrent
・Specify either the minimum number of pages or the maximum number of pages
・Enable any of the 3 defalut filter disable options

For example: https://e-hentai.org/?advsearch=1&f_srdd=3
* Please check the page transition links (First, Prev, Next, Last).


Please excuse my poor English.
Kindest regards.

[quote name='Tenboro' date='Nov 3 2022, 12:19' post='6202295']I'm not actually reading this thread anymore[/quote]
That much was obvious immediately.

[quote]due to the heavy brigadeering.[/quote]
Hundreds of long time users who suddenly find the most basic and most used feature on the site has suddenly and with ZERO WARNING been completely erased, and coming in to complain about this, is "brigadeering" to you? What a comically conceited and out of touch statement, it's like you are completely unwilling to believe that anyone could view this as a giant inconvenience, that no such thing could ever be possible.
Perhaps you may not intend it to come off this way, but this is the only way me and many others can interpret it as.


[quote]I get that it broke your favorite viewing tool[/quote]
I have NEVER used any third party tools for e-hentai, I've just been using the search and pages for all of these years. I'm not alone in that either as your feedback shows you. Again, you're too proud, stubborn, and uncaring to even consider the mere suggestion that you've made a gigantic error.

[quote]but all the reasons for why "bring back page number" isn't long-term technically feasible was already answered in the first few pages of the thread.[/quote]
You gave an explanation, yes, the problem is that people aren't buying it, they think that either you're plain bullshitting and that it isn't actually true, or worse, that you're lacking the drive or outright even competence to implement a not-garbage solution.

[quote]the (ostensible) biggest gripe about not being able to jump to the middle of search results, but these things aren't written, tested and deployed overnight.[/quote]
See? Arrogance in full display. I'm sure we'll eventually get a button for jumping straight into the middle of search results, thereby totally solving the problem of actually effectively browsing through a search result of 653 pages! I would only have to click next and load a new page less than 400 times that way!

[quote]I will however hold off on deploying the update to EH until it's ready.[/quote]
I'm glad you're giving those users the time to pack up all their last stuff before seeking out alternatives.



[quote name='yiptiv' date='Nov 3 2022, 12:58' post='6202321']Now this is the type of developer ego self sabotage shit I've only seen from game developers up until now.[/quote]
Isn't it so fucking brilliant? Years from now, when SadPanda is but a faded memory, he'll still think of himself as a misunderstood genius, about how all of us idiots didn't understand!



[quote name='Tenboro' date='Nov 3 2022, 13:00' post='6202324']I know it's being brigadeered, but some amount of the complaints are of course organic.[/quote]
"Am I so out of touch? No, it's the users who are wrong!"

[quote]I get that people feel strongly about it, but as a tradeoff between functionality and performance[/quote]
For the majority of the userbase, this is you trading away almost the entirety of the site's functionality for performance they don't even get to see.

[quote]this is pretty much the best I can do.[/quote]
Then if this is actually your best, your best is simply not good enough.

[quote]The old search engine isn't actually working anymore despite people claiming otherwise, and the alternative was a severe reduction in functionality.[/quote]
As opposed to THIS reduction in functionality? Again, it was working perfectly fine right before you fucked it up, I used it the night before just like normal.

[quote]You mention Nyaa, which has page numbers, but you can only see 1000 results per search, is that really what people want?[/quote]
To this useless and finicky mess? Yes, even that would be better, because then at least 1000 or lower results (which would still be an enormous segment of people's searches), would actually be functionally usable.

[quote]And I'm not sure why people act like they can't use the dates of the posted galleries to "know where you are in a search".[/quote]
Because the search results are a mess where you have to click forward one page at a time, with no clear way of remembering where you were or knowing where you actually are outside of referring to very cryptic and unclear GID (which inevitably will be full of gaps), and no easy way to ever get back to where you were beyond going through the results AGAIN, one page at a time.

[quote](I'm actually busy with making some additions to the search engine, so I won't keep posting.)[/quote]
No doubt very user friendly ones, I'm sure you'll be open to critique next time.



[quote name='sbrd95' date='Nov 3 2022, 13:50' post='6202364']Uh, do you know what brigadeering is? [/quote]
Brigadeering is when he's sweaty and uncomfortable about people's reactions, regardless of what the actual circumstances are.

[quote]... idk why I'm wasting my breath. You admitted you're dismissing all of this criticism and ignoring this thread. I guess it's time to move onto another site?[/quote]
It's clearly a goner.


[quote name='Shank' date='Nov 3 2022, 14:06' post='6202377']I don't know how the backend works, no one in this thread (including those calling it bullshit) does except Tenboro. What I do know however, is that a lot of time and effort was spent on it, and I'm pretty confident that he'd have not done something dislike just for shits and giggles.[/quote]
Obviously not, it's done this way because he never consulted the userbase at all and thought nobody would miss the most basic feature a gallery archive can have. He just brushes off criticism as "brigadeering" or people using third party extensions (implying it's the responsibility of those devs to fix that), so he's obviously not very concerned with what the userbase actually thinks.

[quote]The search overall is much more improved over the previous[/quote]
You actually think so? I sure don't, and judging by all the replies I see, neither do many (if not even most). Again, there's a very large segment of the userbase who find that their main feature for browsing no longer exists.

[quote]There have been bugs reported that are being fixed, and a function to try and alleviate the biggest concern is being coded.[/quote]
Do tell what this entails.

[quote]I'm sure you and some others would, but I also expect if the site suddenly started taking 1 minute on every single search, the number of complaints for it would dwarf the ones here.[/quote]
I would outright personally prefer that to this, that's not even hyperbole. That would still allow for faster handling of results, mainly because you wouldn't need to fully traverse all the results every single time you wanted to return to a large collection of search results.

[quote]Even more so if some searches outright fail with ever increasing frequency until it just stops working altogether.[/quote]
Then perhaps the userbase should have been alarmed to this looming problem well ahead of time, so that the community could potentially have worked together with the devs to come to a better solution, and giving people ample time to back up things in case the worst happens?

Well, the BBCode fucking broke for seemingly no reason, but I can't be bothered to trying to fix it.

This post has been edited by chopblock: Nov 3 2022, 17:16

2. Blindly wanting to jump to page 50 to see what's there is not a good argument. A better argument would be something like suggesting date range filter or sorting features, although I can see the latter being another heavy load but definitely doable.

I put my scenario here 2 times already and not once a legit answer be found.
So here again:

My favorite now is 920k+ (too many? yeah, almost 15 years of being here made all that), now tell me how can I search for that one specific gallery I know it's in my list, but only remember it's after that one and before those one and some vague tags that result in 10k+ galleries and the one I need is among them?

Click next 1000 times? 2000 times? 5000 times?

And please don't even talking about dates of posted or favorites here, even the tag is vaguely remembered, you expected me to remember 920k+ date and times?

You mention Nyaa, which has page numbers, but you can only see 1000 results per search, is that really what people want?

Yes please. Heck, make it a maximum of 100 results per search if you have to, because realistically the current search system is worthless for anything that goes more than 4 pages anyway.

In the meantime, I'll simply stop using the website version and start using my favorite 3rd-party viewer, which will likely quickly update itself to add some sort of page number function or similar feature. And I've heard that they're doing it in a way that's much heavier than the old search function!

Even if it's somehow not computationally feasible to have page numbers for ~700k results (lol), It's still computationally feasible when results are shortened, i.e. when you fucking search for something. Tenboro, if you're reading this, please bring them back.


You could also just make it optional for some users?

Holy shit what the actual fuck. How hard is it not to try to fix what isn't broken? The galleries are now unnavigable. Please bring back the old search interface for the love of christ. Or at least make it so people can switch between this nonsese back. Being able to navigate through pages of galleries is a fundamental aspect of every single gallery.

Yesterday we had an old but working car, and it drove quite well, and now we have a supercar without a steering wheel.

If the problem is the number of galleries, why not make a static variable equal to the most popular tag? I don't know the exact statistics, but I think that most users search either by tag or by artist or by category or all together. If we take the most popular tag as a variable, it would be about 600k maybe even less, in any case it would be better than now. Or wait for decoders who can translate GID into pagination.

Bad analogy. Taking some pages over a minute to load is definitely not "a car working great". This is one of the issues that cursor pagination solves.

You can't just make a static variable to every query sorted by latest date that will be obsolete a few minutes later. That's not how it works, and that is not how pagination works. GIDs won't translate to page numbers as well because cursor pagination doesn't have "page numbers" as a concept. The GIDs are only index guides to where the the results will start regardless of what number of results it has. For example, if the first result starts with GID #1234, you can show a query result starting with GID# 1233 and it will never be called "page 2" because it doesn't fall under the concept of what a "page" is.

Give it some time, and people will realize that it's easier and more accurate to query using constant GID cursor pointers. Now if the site will only have a way to save this gid pointers to their tag filters, it will be easier to jump back to where people left off, instead of guessing/remembering page numbers that keeps changing as new entries are posted every hour.

This post has been edited by sakuracircle: Nov 3 2022, 17:47

Can you reroll this is not good. It hade been one of the best site to this night now im think it is one of the worst for the users

I never post on the forums and mostly just lurk but the fact that you're blowing off all the complaints as "just brigading" says a lot dude.

I'm 100% sure there is a way to get both pagination and better performance

There is: Throw a couple more thousand dollars per month to get more expensive servers instead of optimizing the search engine.