[X] My Assistant

Not sure what you're even arguing. The function to calculate the base material grade takes literally a single argument, which is the raw quality value for the equipment piece. But PXP is also calculated from the raw quality value, so there will be a correlation.

That's why I said 'quality tier', but no, I understood what Tenboro said.

And no, it's not that we don't get it (thank you very much) - SPoison was asking for that to be disregarded as far as forging goes, and to have the material cost rounded to the tier, instead of based on the raw quality roll.

So, the term 'the raw quality value' doesn't mean the tier such as 'Legendary' 'Magnificent', and we players don't know the exact value, right?

This post has been edited by sssss2: Jul 27 2021, 01:54

As far as I know, GC is 5x, the same modifier as Vital Strike - except unconditional - and VS is very strong. I'm not sure why you're having such trouble with it, especially when my experience has been the total opposite (on isekai, and I'm acknowledging the half-health SGs when I say that).

The problem is that isekai and persistent are completely different monsters and the dynamics are different.

For example a Great Cleave against Yuki Nagato on isekai (Imperil + 3 stacks of PA + SS + Legendary Estoc 55% ADB forge 27 with 2 Mag fleets + 2 leg negations + 1 Perl arcanist no forge or soulbond on any): [files.catbox.moe] https://files.catbox.moe/zu3u1q.mkv

Looks powerful right? It was a crit so a bit lucky but it definitely dealt a nice chunk of damage...before you realize the low level everyone has on top of the halved HP of the SGs.

However this is the true nature of Great Cleave on persistent (with Imperil + 3 stacks of PA + DD2 + 7.7% isk bonus + SS + Peerless Longsword forge 90 with full Savage Shadowdancers forge 10 at least):

[files.catbox.moe] https://files.catbox.moe/jabp9e.mkv

Normal damage was dealt there so here's a crit: [files.catbox.moe] https://files.catbox.moe/3alq7k.mkv


Now this is what you can do with those 2 pips:

[files.catbox.moe] Persistent ver.

[files.catbox.moe] Isekai ver.

You might be tempted to mix a bit of Great Cleave on top of SS with normal attacks while waiting for the cooldowns, however the damage you deal can't keep up with your OC drain and look at how long it takes to build OC, turns where you're only dealing normal damage may I add:

[files.catbox.moe] Persistent ver.

or [files.catbox.moe] Isekai ver.


On top of 2H being at it's most vulnerable when not in Spirit Stance: [files.catbox.moe] https://files.catbox.moe/iys83s.mkv

And here's what a full OC tank + SS can do for you and how much damage you get with those, so you definitely want to be in SS as much as possible:

[files.catbox.moe] https://files.catbox.moe/hst9a9.mkv

The recharging periods are where you lose turns, a lot at that, so you ideally would want to do the recharging while fighting with as many monsters as you can handle to maximize your Domino Strikes while reducing lost turns (and time) so GC ends up hurting you more than helping on persistent.

Thus the above is why I think GC in its current state is very poor for OC, damage and time efficiency and needs a buff to make it worth it of the OC, it's sort of usable in isekai because it effectively deals double damage to the things it'll be hitting but otherwise it's meh, dangerous and wasteful.

What they don't get is that a Mag. can sometimes have a higher "quality" (in your sense) then a Leg. (And the same for some Exq. vs. Mag.).

Well that's easy.
There is an overlapping between Mag and Leg, where, roughly, Legendary rolls below 25% fall into the Magnificent range, and that also means that high rolled Magnificents can have some stats falling into the Legendary range.

So you can have those cases:

Equipment 1:
All stats but one are 0% Legendary range (aka they're also in the Magnificent range)
One single stat is 26% L, AKA > MMax
The item will be named Legendary because of that last stat.
The item will also have the lowest PxP possible for a Legendary, because of the crappy stats.

Equipment 2:
All stats but one are MMax (around 25% L range)
One single stat is -1% L range (aka M range outside of the overlapping area)
The item will be named Magnificent because of that last stat
The item will also have the highest PxP possible for a Magnificent, because of the high stats.

Also, in practicality, Equip 2 is way better than Equipment 1.
Especially if the decisive stat is something like Accuracy or Interference, basically irrelevant.
But Equipment 2 is Magnificent, and Equipment 1 is Legendary.

An interesting thing the current system will make is that Equipment 2 despite being Mag will probably need 6 Mid Grades to forge.
And in a way it's kinda fair, since Equipment 2 is better than a whole bunch of Legendaries (like Equipment 1) despite being a Magnificent.
If Tenboro forced Magnificents to have low forging costs regardless of how good they are rolled, we would have "too convenient" good mags that can be forged for cheap, and bad legendaries that are already defaulted to max cost would be basically scams compared to them (not that you should forge them anyway (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) )


The only thing I would change, personally, is that PxP apparently relies on the number of stats of an item, outside of the actual rolls.
So items like Shade, especially Arcanist, have exaggeratedly high PxP because of that, so they could have higher forging cost even without good stats.
That is what is not fair about this system.
So don't tie the PxP to the number of stats (unless we're talking about lowering PxP on items that miss one that it can have, like a missing Primary Attribute on a Magnificent, in that case yes, it should be accounted, of course), but solely to the percentages and in which tier (C, F, A, S, E, M, L, P).
(It would also be nice to take in account the usefulness of each stat for each item, and weight its relevance in the PxP but that's already too much probably, also you should probably decide by yourself for that because if you ask people, someone will have heated discussions about those (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )


TL;DR
If all rolls of an item are at least 0% L with one above MMax, the item will be Legendary.
Even if an item has all stats but one at MMax, aka well into the L range, having just one below 0% L will roll the item as a Magnificent.
PxP is more based on actual individual rolls than the overall quality roll that can depend on one single stat, like I showed above.
Forging cost relies on PxP for Mag-, so very good Magnificents will have the same forging cost as Legendaries. And rightfully so.


Let's just thank Tenboro for fixing the atrocious ranges we had back in the day, where there was no limitation of overlapping outside of -1/+1 quality ranges at most, so you could have a Legendary with all but one S stats (-3 quality ranges) as long as just a single one rolled above MMax (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

This post has been edited by Juggernaut Santa: Jul 27 2021, 12:00

So, the term 'the raw quality value' doesn't mean the tier such as 'Legendary' 'Magnificent', and we players don't know the exact value, right?

Yeah, 'quality' is an internal-only thing. If I remember right, for new equipment, it's based on how well the stats rolled, but for old (pre-0.82) equipment it's slightly different.

Can we haz... a full reset button for attributes on the character screen? It could cost soul frags or something.

Alternately, is there any reason for there to still be a cap on how much can be reduced at a time? Maybe that could scale with level? It might be fine to take away 10 at a time at level 100 or so, but at level 500, even if you remembered to do all 24 a day, it might take you half a year depending on what you were trying to reduce...

Not my request, but something that came up in conversation.

This post has been edited by Nezu: Jul 27 2021, 22:56

Also for some odd reason it's -10 points across all profiles, even though their primary attributes are completely separate otherwise.

Alternately, is there any reason for there to still be a cap on how much can be reduced at a time?

Not really, especially since profiles were added. I just didn't get around to remove it.

This is not necessarily a suggestion, just something to think about.

Looking through this thread it seems like the way the monster lab works isn't necessarily all that great right now. So here is my (mid level player) take right now.

-The monster lab requires too much investment. Due to the high PL scaling of monsters (at lvl 230 you largely fight pl 1100+ monsters), it takes enormous amounts of crystals to make a monster that actually fights. Forget about PL 100, 200 or 500. The players fighting those will be past the level range in a few minutes, as leveling is so fast down there. These monsters don't fight.

-Thus, the different tiers of monsters make little sense, as anything that's not eating the most expensive food is probably not going to fight. It doesn't help that isekai doesn't count. I can't judge the influx of new players, but looking at my monster stats, it can't be much.

Now, isn't that kinda sad that so many monsters basically never fight? It kinda makes the entire lab a little questionable as it is. How to fix this? There are largely two ways.

-Monster PL could be between Player Level and whatever the cap is, instead just cap +-10%(?). This would mean a PL 500 Monster would get seen by everyone. Downside: With the current balance, the game would probably get easier for everyone. On the flipside, it wasn't that different when monsters were new. Back then you always had the rather weak system monsters vs. the rather strong monster lab ones. Perhaps with a PL shown for monsters instead of basically just your own level, this could even be interesting. Deprecating spells would get more value, as currently they make little sense to cast outside of obvious boss/legendary/gods. You usually don't know what's dangerous, until it's too late anyway.

-Monster PL cap could be more smooth and difficulty related. Right now the PL seems to be not affected by difficulty. Or at least not in a mattering way. Normal could just be Player level, which then grows until the highest difficulty with a, say, 5x multiplier. From my current view on midgame, I'm not sure if there'd be any big downsides. The difficulty differences are actually pretty minimal right now, as the very high PL is what makes battles hard. In other words, if nightmare is a pain, normal isn't much better. Given how difficulties are kinda intended to be raised as you continue, it's rather harsh right now in the mid game area.
Isekai isn't as affected by it, because item world helps a lot and is quite a bit faster.


Regardless of how, I hope monsters get looked at. There must be a ton of monsters barely getting into fights as it is.

There is something that bother me a lot about RddleMaster, the fact that it don't heal Spirit.
Without breaking the game balance a little Spirit Healing can be added, maybe not the same as the Spirit Gem (25% Base Spirit) but a fixed amount.

I was thinking on something like (Player Level / 5-10) rounded up so 1-50 or 1-100.

-------------------------------------------------------

Not really, especially since profiles were added. I just didn't get around to remove it.

This will make trying changing stat a lot more fun, i like fine tunind but currently is too slow.
If the limit is removed or improved i will me a lot (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

There is something that bother me a lot about RddleMaster, the fact that it don't heal Spirit.
Without breaking the game balance a little Spirit Healing can be added, maybe not the same as the Spirit Gem (25% Base Spirit) but a fixed amount.

I was thinking on something like (Player Level / 5-10) rounded up so 1-50 or 1-100.

Yeah, I would like that too, it'd be a fairly minor QoL for most people but still nice to have.

Is it possible to let superior quality eq. gives you some scrap mats???
Nowadays we wouldn't get any scrap mats when playing on PFUDOR because no average or lower eq. drop there except from some arena bonus...
So in the ends we need to buy scraps to repair, either from item shop or market...
I don't know how the best way to implement it though, maybe 1 scrap + 1 low when salvaged???

And while at it, could you show the scrap stock on repair page???
Just like amnesia shard and soul fragment on their respective page...
It'll become some nice QoL to know when our scraps are running low on repair page, rather than need to scroll down on inventory to check it...

A little suggestion on elemental strike on weapons.

"The damage dealt is roughly 50% of your normal physical damage" and "Dual Wield style Offhand Strikes do apply Elemental Strikes, subject to the offhand 50% damage penalty (eaka 25%).

I think they can get a little more juice so i was thinking on a little extra damage based on how many strike are active at the same time (not affected by the offhand penality):

- 1% if you have 1 Strike
- 4% if you have 2 Strikes
- 10% if you have 3 Strikes

That way if you have 1 strike it dose 51% and 26% damage, if you have 2 they do 54% and 29% damage each, and if you have all 3 possible strike actived they do 60% and 35% damage each.

Just to make it a bit more interesting and useful without changing too much.

Is it possible to let superior quality eq. gives you some scrap mats???
...
I don't know how the best way to implement it though, maybe 1 scrap + 1 low when salvaged???

It was just like that up until the last patch iirc, when it got changed by 10b for reasons (well, HIS reasons (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)).

I don't think he will change it back, especially since the new rules for scrapping are so fresh out of the "gamerules forge" (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

It was just like that up until the last patch iirc, when it got changed by 10b for reasons (well, HIS reasons (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)).

I don't think he will change it back, especially since the new rules for scrapping are so fresh out of the "gamerules forge" (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Yeah I know it only changed recently...
But like I said before, that makes playing on PFUDOR, which most people do, won't get you any scraps because you only get superior or higher...
So you'll rely on buying scraps from item shop or market to repair your set...
Even if bazaar price is higher than scrap price, I like when there is an option...

Out of 130 imperil targets, 46 didn't get hit, and this feels pretty average.
This might be one reason why melee is so sub-optimal compared to mages, other than the obvious speed factor. Your debuffs love to miss. Given how much less bad it is against system enemies (i.e. school girls, spaghetti), I wonder how this is a thing. The monster lab evade and resist just hurt too much here.

I know this would be a buff to melee, but maybe deprecating spells should never miss. As far as I know, the balance between mage and melee isn't that hot to begin with, and this wouldn't affect mages. This way, monsters could only resist it to a max of 20%, and you'd not have the melee typical miss and evade on top.

Alternatively a buff helping with magic hit rate, or rethinking about what stats vs. proficiency does might work out as well. (i.e. giving INT accuracy instead of offense, while taking away accuracy from Cloth and changing it for damage)
As melee you can't really do anything against this really poor hitrate. Aether shards are temporary, but their drop-rate or cost is just too bad for a real solution, unless you are rich.


Just a thought while playing around with debuffs. It's weird how mages get free accuracy for physical with staff proficiency, yet melee doesn't get any for their debuffs. WIS alone isn't enough.

Snom would prefer to have soul fragments in persistent exchange.
Such as 15000 soul fragments for 10(or 5) points of each proficiency. Or at least just let the player chose which proficiency would be gained.

This post has been edited by shote1369: Sep 1 2021, 23:11

It would be nice to have potion/draught for restoring overcharge.

Or potency which boost overcharge gain.

This post has been edited by Mud attheBaseofLotus: Sep 6 2021, 21:57

Any chance of the Tower refunding Mana, Spirit Elixirs used or having those as rewards, especially for the higher floors? Or some kind of discount % based on tower floors cleared?

The higher floors of the towers pretty much slowly drain away the player's credits until they're bankrupt and also take a long time to do so if it takes a long time to do I'd at least want to break even in credits rather than go bankrupt clearing these floors.

Could we please get a revamped Drain Augment Ability Slot?

Needless to mention how that slot is only useful for Holy/Dark mages, with the Meta of clearing rounds as fast as possible, I doubt any endgame mage makes use of it.

I'd rather have an augment slot for something universal.

Basic Attack Augument Slot

Auguments the melee basic attack with one of the three Drain options, life, mana or spirit.

This effect isn't applied to skills, but works with counter-attacks, domino strikes and offhand strike damage, as these are a part of the basic attack of each fighting style.

Life Drain

Chance to proc on hit similar to vampire suffix, base 25%, 50% chance for crits, 100% on bleeding enemies.

Amount of life healed can be something like a fixed 5% of player ADB, or depend on player level for player_level/100.

Mana and spirit drain could work similarly, but drain would be based on player stats, so having a bigger mana/spirit pool would be benefitial, giving a meaning to the Suffusive Spirit hath perk, and making the capacitor IW potency more desireable.

Vampire Weapons Synergy

By having a drain weapon equiped(Vampire, Illithid, Banshee), the player would basically double up on the drain chance, so base drain would become 50%, and crits would grant 100% drain chance even if enemies aren't bleeding.

While it's not something that can put melee on par with current mages, I believe it can open more room for certain builds and playstyles to be more viable, besides making drain weapons actually useable instead of niche items or instant bazaar fodder.

If the idea of enhanced basic attacks is too overpowered, then simply changing it to work exclusively for skills might solve the issue, as the drain ability would be limited by the player's OC bar, but then it would overshadow everything besides 1H as usual.

Overall, any possibility to increase our player power that's not limited to getting better equipment would be welcome.

Could we please get a revamped Drain Augment Ability Slot?

Needless to mention how that slot is only useful for Holy/Dark mages, with the Meta of clearing rounds as fast as possible, I doubt any endgame mage makes use of it.

I'd rather have an augment slot for something universal.

I quite like the idea.