[X] My Assistant

If you want to be the best at everything, you should have to work at it. Damned hard. Those of us who maxed our proficiencies did.

But it's not like you do something hard.
It's just fucking boring.

Some would say that spending copious amounts of time doing something boring is hard.
Others would say shut the fuck up and stop complaining you cheating bastard.

I admit it is pretty hard staying awake when grinding prof.

Some would say that spending copious amounts of time doing something boring is hard.
Others would say shut the fuck up and stop complaining you cheating bastard.

Yeah, hard. And fucking boring.
Douche (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

Prof Grinding is not that bad if you ry to stay creative.

For example: When I grindend up my 2h prof I entered a Schoolgirl Marathon on IWBTH with a Mana leech maze and spammed some magic whenever I had some mana left (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) So i actually grinded 2 profs and got a load of EXP out of it.

i would like to see the ability to delete old moogle mails. it starts to get quite cluttered with trades and such.

Yeah, hard. And fucking boring.
Douche (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

Being the best requires hard, tedious work. I'm not surprised that a worthless piece of shit like yourself wouldn't realize that and would want a shortcut.

Unh, putting aside the fact that I'm the one who suggested it in the first place, I still don't see why you're considering this suggestion to be such a problem.

I mean, if I was asking Tenboro just to ratchet up the proficiency gains for everyone then yeah, it's pretty justifiable that people like yourself that have maxed out proficiency across the board and thus gain no benefit would be angry. However, that's not what I suggested.

Even assuming that this thing would be made, it would probably be quite expensive and time consuming to train anyways. And who knows, maybe there would be a different training thing for each section, or hell, even for each skill, so people would have to be selective in what they want increased gains for.

You're coming at this from the point of view that to be the best requires a large investment of time. I'm asking what's wrong with inquiring of some of that time investment can't be mitigated by spending another resource, being credits.

Besides that, it's not like that if this was implemented that it would somehow belittle or make light of the work that those that grinded their proficiency to max across the board. If anything, it becomes more impressive that said people ground out their proficiency without help. And in the meantime, if people don't want to spend credits on it, they don't have to. No one is forcing it on anyone.

So just to summarize, I don't see how implementing this would, in any way, affect the way you have played, currently play, or will play the game in the future. And if you care about how other people play then game, then the question becomes why? It's not like this game is PvP, where having a certain set of skills or training puts people at a significant advantage over others, everyone pretty much exists in their own unique HV, that other people can occasionally send stuff to if they deem fit, nothing more.

And speaking of proficiency gains, what would people think of a training to up the rate of those gains? Something like a .01 gain per level with ten levels?

You're coming at this from the point of view that to be the best requires a large investment of time. I'm asking what's wrong with inquiring of some of that time investment can't be mitigated by spending another resource, being credits.

Mitigating the time investment? Assuming your .01 gain per level implies what I think it does (the alternative would be functionally nothing), it would completely and utterly destroy the need to grind out proficiencies.
With one level, the average proficiency gain would increase from .02 to .03. A second increases it from .03 to .04.

The only way such a training does not completely remove the need to ever spend even the slightest time gaining proficiencies is if the first level costs something like 500k and increases to a million with the second.

And if you care about how other people play then game, then the question becomes why? It's not like this game is PvP, where having a certain set of skills or training puts people at a significant advantage over others, everyone pretty much exists in their own unique HV, that other people can occasionally send stuff to if they deem fit, nothing more.

More people with higher proficiencies = more people gaining power faster = more people getting to the point of having huge amounts of disposable income= more people being able to bid upon those premium items that appear.

Of course, having given away my vast wealth and spoils, I really don't care about that, but don't act like there is no consequences to other players.

The only way such a training does not completely remove the need to ever spend even the slightest time gaining proficiencies is if the first level costs something like 500k and increases to a million with the second.
More people with higher proficiencies = more people gaining power faster = more people getting to the point of having huge amounts of disposable income= more people being able to bid upon those premium items that appear.

People are going to bid on the items they want anyways, and just because a person is gaining proficiency faster it still doesn't mean they're gaining levels and credits any quicker either.

Besides, I can argue just as easily that the inverse is true, that when people have quicker proficiency gains they'll spend less time grinding, thus level up slower, make fewer items in the form of general drops, and progress at generally the same rate that they would have anyways.

Also, even in the scenario you've posited, the players that have grinded out their stuff before are still at the advantage because they've had a longer overall time in the HV, and now that they've reached endgame status (which is way more than simply having maxed out procs) they can earn hundreds of thousands of credits in small amounts of time, and if they don't want to buy up stuff like Luck of the Draw or anything else, then it ends up accumulating fast enough that they'll still likely be able to stamp out any bid.

Having quicker proficiency gains =/= a person who levelled up once every five days is now going to level up five levels in five days, nor does it mean they'll get huge boons to their disposable incomes.

EDIT:

Also, please explain how more people actually have credits to bid on things is bad? Isn't this exactly the situation you want if you're running an auction? For people to actually try and outbid each other for things they consider valuable? If it means that once in a while someone might not actually get an item they want, well then oh well, that's just how life goes.

This post has been edited by Grahf: Apr 9 2011, 05:47

People are going to bid on the items they want anyways, and just because a person is gaining proficiency faster it still doesn't mean they're gaining levels and credits any quicker either.

Higher Prof ---> stronger ---> can do things faster and/or on a higher difficulty setting ---> more level ups, more bazaar food etc.

I guess. But don't people already go on higher difficulties anyways when they proc grind? As for doing things faster, at higher levels your equipment almost matters as much, or more, than your proficiency doesn't it - I mean granted you still want it high, but you also want a shit kicking staff to boost everything through the roof, and a set of elemental themed gear so that you just AOE nuke everything in a round, which is something that anyone can do if they are a high enough level mage.

And again, I maintain that even if it gets easier for those people momentarily, and it results in a new crop of high rollers, is that really a cardinal sin or something? Wouldn't the people that would use (or abuse, or whatever) the training be the ones willing to put the time and effort into playing HV for a couple of hours a day, and thus would be in the same boat anyways?

Proficiency speed training would not need to be implemented like what Buggy mentioned a few posts up. It could be implemented as an increased chance to gain proficiency points.

Lets say it's a 10-level training, increasing drastically in cost with each level (like Archaeologist). Each level increases the chance to get a proficiency gain by 10% of it's base value. 1 level would be +10% more Proficiency per hour, 2 levels would be 20%... up to 100% increased proficiency per hour. That's still just double speed gains, even after an investment of several million credits.

That would hardly have the severe unbalancing effect that Boggy fears, while it would give people an outlet to help mitigate the frustration of proficiency grinding.

I second the suggestion of having Proficiency Speed training.

I guess. But don't people already go on higher difficulties anyways when they proc grind? As for doing things faster, at higher levels your equipment almost matters as much, or more, than your proficiency doesn't it - I mean granted you still want it high, but you also want a shit kicking staff to boost everything through the roof, and a set of elemental themed gear so that you just AOE nuke everything in a round, which is something that anyone can do if they are a high enough level mage.

And again, I maintain that even if it gets easier for those people momentarily, and it results in a new crop of high rollers, is that really a cardinal sin or something? Wouldn't the people that would use (or abuse, or whatever) the training be the ones willing to put the time and effort into playing HV for a couple of hours a day, and thus would be in the same boat anyways?

Nah nah nah. Profs are important too.
The 150 points in holy prof i grinded last week helped me more then a upgrade of my 40% prof hat to a 42% prof hat. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

With higher prof you become better so you should work a bit for it.

I don't mind coredumperror's idea actually. I'm not trying to unbalance the system or anything, but surely there's some room for a little flexibility.

I think people don't understand what is the real propose of proficiency. The game is balanced for have proficiency 50% of current level, so every point up this is an achievement. The fact elemental proficiency is easy to cap is the same reason why it's easy to cap 2W for a 2W player, it's a bonus for sticking with the style.
The only thing I would like to be changed is montage, because it's useless the way it works, I should be able to raise from 0.01 until 75% from cap within a year.(considering I don't play in that period)

This post has been edited by cmdct: Apr 9 2011, 12:40

The only thing I would like to be changed is montage, because it's useless the way it works, I should be able to raise from 0.01 until 75% from cap within a year.(considering I don't play in that period)

This is agree with. Montage is utterly worthless the way it currently works. Yeah it's supposed to just be a bonus since it doesn't have any risk, but 8 hours of no risk should still be worth more than 8 seconds of fighting.

It would be interesting if consumable have burden & interference ... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

no, seriously, character reset!

if not, aura and attribute resets

Montage: I did one a few days ago for and got.
+0.7591 Shield proficiency
+0.9852 One-handed weapon proficiency
Its not close to what you can get by doing 100 rounds of a grindfest/IW but if you do one everyday while you are afk/sleeping its going to add up.

Elemental, Divine, Forbidden are all easy to to get high. Just use them and kill stuff. The others may require grinding to max but even that isn't that hard. Deprecating must be the easiest one to max, Supportive isn't that bad if you have auto cast but would still need some time to max. I think Curative is the worst to max and is the only one of those I don't have at +300. Once I got regen II I didn't need to cast cure much.

So I don't see why everyone seems to think its so hard to get proficiency high. It just takes time, It wasn't until I was over level 250 that I started to bother with keeping them close to my level. So every 5 levels I just took some time to raise them a little.

So I don't see why everyone seems to think its so hard to get proficiency high. It just takes time, It wasn't until I was over level 250 that I started to bother with keeping them close to my level. So every 5 levels I just took some time to raise them a little.

Try to spam spells every day, when the average time for each cast is 1.5-2 seconds.
I need more than a month just to raise deprecating/supportive/curative.

This post has been edited by cmdct: Apr 12 2011, 18:33