[X] My Assistant

How about "rubbish"? Or would that be worst than crude?

This thread is going in an awkward direction (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Anomtai's Bargain Bin is temporally closed.

How else would you close a virtual storefront? Clearly, you can't close it spatially. Or am I missing* something here?

*I'm assuming that 'temporarily' hasn't been misspelt...

The wiki should be linked to in the game.

Fixed.

We should rename the entire quality thing:

Crude -> Shit
Fair -> Crap
Average -> Meh
Fine -> Maybe-good
Superior -> Should-be-good
Exquisite -> Good
Magnificent -> Awesome
Legendary -> Holy-shit-ah-you-got-trolled-probably

We should rename the entire quality thing:

Crude -> troll
Fair -> troll
Average -> troll
Fine -> troll
Superior -> troll
Exquisite -> troll
Magnificent -> troll
Legendary -> troll

FTFY (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

We should rename the entire quality thing:

Crude -> Shit
Fair -> Crap
Average -> Meh
Fine -> Maybe-good
Superior -> Should-be-good
Exquisite -> Good
Magnificent -> Awesome
Legendary -> Holy-shit-ah-you-got-trolled-probably

And if Magnificent and Legendary were more common, Exquisite would be crap, Magnificient would be meh and Legendary would be maybe-good.

Thus supporting my theory that average quality increase goes 100% towards raising expectations.

mag+ isn't that rare but sadly most of them are made of junk gear or fail suffix.
I can't even remember when I got a legendary worth keeping (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

And if Magnificent and Legendary were more common, Exquisite would be crap, Magnificient would be meh and Legendary would be maybe-good.

Thus supporting my theory that average quality increase goes 100% towards raising expectations.

No.

The problem lies on the fact that there is no base for each tier of quality.

So for example if you have an exquisite phase, you can still get crude/fair style of stats on ALL the important stats, i.e. int wis and EDB.

If there was some sort of lower base where stats can never get lower than that, then we probably wouldn't complain as much.

There exist a few superior phase with max EDB, wis and int that beats nearly all mag+ phase I've seen.

It's not that we complain about having too little magnificent, I actually like the drop rates for mags, exquisite and legendary as it is.

However, the problem is that when we do get something like a magnificent awesome-prefix tier 3 of some-awesome-suffix, it can still be that it is absolute crap due to how likely it is for the critical rolls to be shitty and the non-critical rolls to be good.

I've seen many mag/exq phases with good EDB, TINY int and wis, and mag max PMI and/or MMI. If that's not crap then I don't know...

like how crushing (melee attack) damage is too large an amount of a staff's item "weight", where maxed crushing damage will bring a katalox with low / mediocre EDBs/accuracy and crit modifiers and stat rolls up to "exquisite". not as pronounced a problem for magnificent / legendaries as it requires the other rolls to be sort of decent as well

there's a similar problem with low PMI "of protection" rolls where shit like MMI is actually maxed, but the weighting isn't as rigged there

the weighting does need to be modified. it might actually be simpler for end-of-roll quality formulas to make certain things irrelevant to stat weighting like melee damage on staffs. changing weighting for quality may be difficult so i propose simply making certain parts irrelevant for quality as an alternative

but removing melee damage as a stat for staffs and effectively excluding it from quality calculations without changing any formula would work too (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Mar 5 2013, 18:07

The wiki should be linked to in the game.

Fixed.

I still completely support this motion. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

like how crushing (melee attack) damage is too large an amount of a staff's item "weight", where maxed crushing damage will bring a katalox with low / mediocre EDBs/accuracy and crit modifiers and stat rolls up to "exquisite". not as pronounced a problem for magnificent / legendaries as it requires the other rolls to be sort of decent as well

there's a similar problem with low PMI "of protection" rolls where shit like MMI is actually maxed, but the weighting isn't as rigged there

the weighting does need to be modified. it might actually be simpler for end-of-roll quality formulas to make certain things irrelevant to stat weighting like melee damage on staffs. changing weighting for quality may be difficult so i propose simply making certain parts irrelevant for quality as an alternative

but removing melee damage as a stat for staffs and effectively excluding it from quality calculations without changing any formula would work too (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Just make the most important stats on one gear have the biggest influence. So a piece of Phase with lulz EDB and PABs can never go above Superior.

Just make the most important stats on one gear have the biggest influence. So a piece of Phase with lulz EDB and PABs can never go above Superior.

And make it easy for everyone; the 'important' stats should be the TYPE, PREFIX and SUFFIX.

So, if I have a Legendary Shielding Power X of Protection, I had better see:

1. My ADB (because it's Power) bloody MAX roll for Superior Slaughter, at least
2. My PMI (because it's Protection) bloody MAX roll for Legendary
3. My Block (because it's Shielding) bloody MAX roll for Superior

And the 4PABs can be close to max, that's fine.

Or at least have a quality 'floor'. If I know that ANY Exquisite piece will be guaranteed value X, Y and Z to {important_stat} A, B and C, I'm less likely to complain.

But perhaps TenB knows better. Do people still complain even after getting awesome rolls on the critical stats but troll rolls on the dump stats?

Problem is: If fewer stats are important to roll a Legendary there is a higher chance to get a piece with enough good rolls for a legendary and so it will generate more pieces with the +20%.

Problem is: If fewer stats are important to roll a Legendary there is a higher chance to get a piece with enough good rolls for a legendary and so it will generate more pieces with the +20%.

Not really. It could actually reduce the chance of Legendaries in a lot of cases. (going from 6 rolls to 4 for example, you'll need more rolls by ratio to get a high "quality" item). It just changes the amount of shit-grade "exquisites" with maximum PMI/MMI and melee damage for cloth, maximum MMI/resist for any other type of armor.

This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Mar 5 2013, 19:31

The problem lies in that different equips have more stats to roll. Plate has 9 stats to roll power armor has 12.
Each stat of plate is weighted at 11.1% each stat of power 8.3%.
Light/shade armor 14 at 7.1%
shadow arcanist 15! at 6.6%
Kevlar 13 at 7.7%
An oak staff 16 at 6.3%
Because of this items are completely unbalanced, more stats to roll means quality has to be higher to get decent stats.

This post has been edited by teddy.bear: Mar 5 2013, 20:36

How else would you close a virtual storefront? Clearly, you can't close it spatially. Or am I missing* something here?

*I'm assuming that 'temporarily' hasn't been misspelt...

Well excuse me if spell check doesn't come with a dictionary.

No.

The problem lies on the fact that there is no base for each tier of quality.

So for example if you have an exquisite phase, you can still get crude/fair style of stats on ALL the important stats, i.e. int wis and EDB.

If there was some sort of lower base where stats can never get lower than that, then we probably wouldn't complain as much.

There exist a few superior phase with max EDB, wis and int that beats nearly all mag+ phase I've seen.

It's not that we complain about having too little magnificent, I actually like the drop rates for mags, exquisite and legendary as it is.

However, the problem is that when we do get something like a magnificent awesome-prefix tier 3 of some-awesome-suffix, it can still be that it is absolute crap due to how likely it is for the critical rolls to be shitty and the non-critical rolls to be good.

I've seen many mag/exq phases with good EDB, TINY int and wis, and mag max PMI and/or MMI. If that's not crap then I don't know...

This, very much so. Especially on fucking mage gear. It almost works on Plate and such since the high-weight rolls include PMI (important) and MMI (should be important, but every mob is physical or does 200% HP per skill crit so lol). It about works on weapons because ADB is high-weight (though Proc %/Time apparently isn't, see the many terribad proc Mags out there). Meanwhile, Phase has PMI, MMI and Evade high weighted, and mages care only about Evade of those three (because lets face it, mage PMI is a joke, MMI only slightly less so for the same reasons as Plate). The only reason I don't look at Superior- Nif phase anymore is because I've found a set where all but 1 piece is above Superior max for the stats I care about (and that one has insane PABs). Staves are a nightmare quality wise because there's about 7 stats that can't be bad on them (MDB, EDB, Prof, ET Time, ET %, INT, WIS). More than 1 of those being a troll roll kind of dooms the staff. It also makes it pointless to forge those, since it costs 60k+ per forging after the first few, and most Exquisite staves are worth far less than a HG Wood.


And I do agree with making the suffixed roll higher weight on quality rating as well.

The problem lies in that different equips have more stats to roll. Plate has 9 stats to roll power armor has 12.
Each stat of plate is weighted at 11.1% each stat of power 8.3%.
Light/shade armor 14 at 7.1%
shadow arcanist 15! at 6.6%
Kevlar 13 at 7.7%
An oak staff 16 at 6.3%
Because of this items are completely unbalanced, more stats to roll means quality has to be higher to get decent stats.

Except even inside that, not every stat is equal! yay!!!

Except even inside that, not every stat is equal! yay!!!

I know, it would be good to know the weighting given to certain stats. As it is now we know the system is unfair but we are unable to tell just how unfair.
As far as I know for plate its something like end>dex=str>agi , power is str>dex>end>agi with power its hard to get even decent exquisite because more often than not they come without end so the weighting must be heavily biased towards str then dex. And shield was just crap all round I never even bothered looking at it before I bazaar-ed it.
Cloth is probably int=wis>dex=agi but we don't know how heavily these are weighted either as its still fairly common to get cloth types without either int or wis
Light I have no idea cos I don't use it, though I do know it gets royally screwed because it has so many stats.
Redwood/willow/oak staffs are just like light, too many separate stats so anything below magnificent is probably going to be worthless.
All we can really tell is which player stat gets weighted higher on equips, we don't even know if any of the other stats receive different weightings based on their suffix/prefix or just generally (well I don't).
Quality of an item should be used to determine 2 separate things, firstly it should determine the amount of stats that an item should receive, then determine the value of those stats randomly using weighting with a tighter stat range based on item quality, so the higher the quality the tighter the available range for all stats are A magnificent for example should not be able to get one or two stats at or close to the current base value while the others are maxed. So the lowest possible a stat could get would increase with its quality.
Legendary should receive all available stats 100% of the time, the other tiers can use w/e formula tenboro feels fair.