[X] My Assistant

Disclaimer: I don't have Tenboros stats on players.

Just from how everyone talks, almost everyone is either mage, or 2H. Of those 2H most are Heavy. Why is it this way? Speed.

Even with the changes bunker suggests I do not see an exodus from 2H to sword and bored or dual-wield. As it is dual-wield is mostly restricted to Marathons, and Ring of Blood. Notice that it does weaken heavy and light against attacks in 2H, but strengthens them while dual-wielding, yet speed will still be king.

IMO the theoretical "power level" of a build is also very important.

IMO the theoretical "power level" of a build is also very important.

Yeah, like how 2H in all respects is superior to all other melee by magnitudes and the only recourse defensive builds have in comparison to anything multi-target is ....more defense.

That's also incredibly vague. Describe this "power level" that you speak of, if you don't mean total effectiveness of a build.

This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Mar 2 2013, 18:05

Yeah, like how 2H in all respects is superior to all other melee by magnitudes and the only recourse defensive builds have in comparison to anything multi-target is ....more defense.

Correct, and therefore instead of:
giving defensive builds a horribly big defensive boost, making them overwhelmingly good in number and still feeling it's insufficient
how about:
give them some moderate offensive boost

And TenB already did so.
By previous patch, 2H killing speed is reduced, while 1H/DW is improved.
Recap:
domino range is reduced;
PA and Bleed has to stack, and DW stacks faster than 2H;
void strike+elem strike, immediate boost for single targeting, but make domino slightly worse.

This post has been edited by HTTP/308: Mar 2 2013, 19:58

Correct, and therefore instead of:
giving defensive builds a horribly big defensive boost, making them overwhelmingly good in number and still feeling it's insufficient
how about:
give them some moderate offensive boost

And how would you propose to do that without compromising the game's design and just giving DW spread damage, or using something needlessly complicated and still secretly benefits "optimal" builds? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

And TenB already did so.
By previous patch, 2H killing speed is reduced, while 1H/DW is improved.
Recap:
domino range is reduced;
PA and Bleed has to stack, and DW stacks faster than 2H;
void strike+elem strike, immediate boost for single targeting, but make domino slightly worse.

"waugh a nerf already happened" doesn't fix the underlying problem (2H is still more defensive than both DW and 1H when kill speed is taken to account) and heavy armor still is PMIT based, which I've pointed out before, is effective from 0 to 99%. Avoidance suffers disproportionately diminishing returns in comparison to mitigation, which you failed/refused to address.

And you still haven't given any hard numbers.

This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Mar 2 2013, 21:53

IMO the theoretical "power level" of a build is also very important.

... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
How much defensive power would 1h need for it to be considered a viable option over DW?

Considering I killed FSM without losing a single HP at 107 with 1H....I don't think there's enough defensive power since gf caps at 500.

You should know that melee is more tied up to perks than mage and apparently you dont know how to play mage.

I miss the time when mageing was
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return

...


alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
alt+1 1 return
1
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUck (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

Ichy, imagine how fast that would be now with the no victory notification script

With another script to cast spell in 1 button, you'd do somewhere in the range of minute per 200 rounds I'd wager. Less with no riddlemasters.

This post has been edited by Lement: Mar 2 2013, 22:50

That would be cool. I want do do like 10000 rounds a day again (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Psht, even if you only do sth like 1 sec per round it would still take less than 3 hours to do 10k rounds. Even if it takes longer your sanity and work time is the limit on that, and I suspect you wouldn't actually play more no matter how easy or hard it is.

This post has been edited by Lement: Mar 2 2013, 23:02

I miss the time when mageing was
alt+1 1 return
[...]
1
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUck (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

Wait, it isn't? Ok, it's more like a 5 b 5 a 5 b 5 and occasionally hitting Fx for mana/spirit, but still.
I found melee to require a lot more attention... though that might be because my melee equipment just sucks.

As for light... maybe add a speed increase to the proficiency, maybe (partially?) tied to the speed increase from the weapon used.

Each Moogle Mail message that has an attachment should be stamped with a line that reads exactly what that attachment is. Currently in cases where the sender doesn't describe what he's sending in the message subject or body, neither the sender nor the recipient can tell what was attached after the items or funds have been removed. Something like this would be useful in the event that someone is hacked, but it would also allow you to keep a transaction history.

Lines for custom monsters would be fun while you're still leveling up, but after a while you grind the same few over and over, and people don't even look at the battle log any more.

For a second, I thought the Last Words were skills activated on death. Don't blame me, I was playing Imperishable Night just now. In the end though, no one does look at the log anymore except for "Oh look, a fancy drop." or the like.

Mobs don't need anymore buffs.

What I suggested was not a buff, just a cool feature. Being able to give more personality to your monsters is not something bad and it wouldn't affect the game's balance. Maybe the log would be more interesting to watch if there were messages from the monsters who die as lighted candles in a strong wind. And hearing always the same lines might be boring, so you could make several posible lines as well for your monster last words (or wathever you would like to name them). That was also why I suggested a random trigger for them or some condition.
(About the other idea about the finishing line, you would only see it if you were killed by the monster. I suppose nobody would let himself be killed just to try to read it, no?)

In my opinion, if it would be fun, it may be worth a try, as this is a game one is supposed to play for fun. And if you're not interested you can just continue without looking the log except for those blue and red messages...

This post has been edited by Ebisan: Mar 3 2013, 03:40

Maybe if the monster dies at the hands of a crit/blast, a status effect, or else drops a gem, they say their "dying words", it wouldn't be too often. In addition, maybe their PL influences a % chance for them to say it.

A way to implement it would be, you unlock two phrase slots at PL100, and unlock one more every 100 PL after.

That way, it isn't something like Chaos upgrades, it's an optional thing, and you have to write one to enable it, just like monster skills.

Only there is a way to disable them directly in the settings so the server doesn't even send me the data packets. It sounds like a nice novelty, but the last thing I want is having to generate more lines in the battlelog especially if it's a run of any significant length.

What I suggested was not a buff, just a cool feature. Being able to give more personality to your monsters is not something bad and it wouldn't affect the game's balance. Maybe the log would be more interesting to watch if there were messages from the monsters who die as lighted candles in a strong wind.

Let the player set bravado, fear and death lines for each monster that have a chance to be printed when it is, respectively, in a belligerent mood (default), low on hits, or when it's just been defeated. Since this makes combat noisier, have an option to not display the messages.

the thing is, I don't really want it any more, since these days I just run into the same monsters over and over.

Celestia Lindwurm says: "Slave! Thou hast slain me!"
10 rounds later
Celestia Lindwurm says: "No, a Bud Light!"
10 rounds later
Celestia Lindwurm says: "Slave! Thou hast slain me!"
&c
especially if the higher-PL monsters are more likely to display it.

and when blowing through on Heroic, I wouldn't have time to read it. the game is ultimately about optimising your grinding speed. once the novelty had worn off, people would just turn it off and go back to trying to farm as fast as possible.

tl;dr you'll be like me soon enough

This post has been edited by mechafujoshi: Mar 3 2013, 05:42

Suggestion to light:

Either have a grace period for light, like 30 burden. Or remove burden from kevlar.

Or both.

@Thot: No, for me it is 1) blast, 2) cure if needed, 3) renew regen II/godly pot/arcane focus/use channeling on spark/veil/prot or vice-versa, 4) blast the rest, several times. though on step 4 I'd note I should be using different spells at times, like cold for hito's dragonkin, since that'd be far more MP-efficient. Well, that's on heroic or on nightmare on great for nongirl arenas.EDIT: Tho I do target strongs to fire with my AoEs. Heh

And tbh, it is better for the game actually being a game that mage cannot just oneshot everything. But I certainly used to come quite close(as in less than 40% of slowdown) on normal thirty levels ago, while now removing resists wouldn't help that much due lack of damage so I understand what Ichy means.(and judging from Chosen's words I cannot possibly have enough damage :/)

This post has been edited by Lement: Mar 3 2013, 10:34

And hearing always the same lines might be boring, so you could make several posible lines as well for your monster last words (or wathever you would like to name them).

But why monster builders will bother to design the last words for players? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
How much defensive power would 1h need for it to be considered a viable option over DW?

I don't understand what you are trying to imply.
Currently 1H is a viable option to DW, since 1H is safter than DW.
And DW is a viable option to 2H, since DW is safer than 2H and kills single target faster.

Considering I killed FSM without losing a single HP at 107 with 1H....I don't think there's enough defensive power since gf caps at 500.

I totally don't understand what you are trying to say.


I won't bother to reply you again, but

And how would you propose to do that without compromising the game's design and just giving DW spread damage, or using something needlessly complicated and still secretly benefits "optimal" builds? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

WTH do you want spread damage for DW? There is Niten/2H/mage over there.
I can see that you really loves DW, and you want DW either to outperform 2H in killing speed, or outperform 1H in safety.

Avoidance suffers disproportionately diminishing returns in comparison to mitigation, which you failed/refused to address.

No, I was talking about how bad your design is.

And you failed/refused to evaluate the cost of avoidance vs. PMI.
Comparing 10% any-avoidance to 10% PMI is sheer nonsense, because they are different.

Do your favorite calculation to see how you can get 90% avoidance. And check how you can get 90% PMI.

No matter what you argue, your design is rewarding you beloved shade+DW so much that any other builds are screwed: 1H is pointless; mage and light/heavy+2H are nerfed.

And you still haven't given any hard numbers.

This is your *hard* number-1st (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Again, parry/resist could be adjusted for this in case it is insane. Not set in stone.

Use you *hard* numbers to elaborate the case of offhand Rapier vs. Tower Shield.

Your *hard* number-2nd (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Also, every 800+ PL monster is chaos upgraded all to hell, don't bullshit.

You randomly pulled this bullshit out of your imagination and use it as proof or *hard* number.
And you are dull enough to call me bullshit when I gave you *facts* (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

psst, 1H under proposed system has a 30% higher TTL in comparison to DW

But why monster builders will bother to design the last words for players? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
I don't understand what you are trying to imply.
Currently 1H is a viable option to DW, since 1H is safter than DW.
And DW is a viable option to 2H, since DW is safer than 2H and kills single target faster.
I totally don't understand what you are trying to say.
I won't bother to reply you again, but

WTH do you want spread damage for DW? There is Niten/2H/mage over there.
I can see that you really loves DW, and you want DW either to outperform 2H in killing speed, or outperform 1H in safety.
No, I was talking about how bad your design is.

And you failed/refused to evaluate the cost of avoidance vs. PMI.
Comparing 10% any-avoidance to 10% PMI is sheer nonsense, because they are different.

Do your favorite calculation to see how you can get 90% avoidance. And check how you can get 90% PMI.

No matter what you argue, your design is rewarding you beloved shade+DW so much that any other builds are screwed: 1H is pointless; mage and light/heavy+2H are nerfed.
This is your *hard* number-1st (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Use you *hard* numbers to elaborate the case of offhand Rapier vs. Tower Shield.

Your *hard* number-2nd (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

You randomly pulled this bullshit out of your imagination and use it as proof or *hard* number.
And you are dull enough to call me bullshit when I gave you *facts* (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

All I see is bitching, moaning, and no solution to any problem that was brought up, no evidence to support your claims, and absolutely no counter to what I have to say besides pure denial. I think you have a problem here.


In case you can actually read numbers:







HP is the "effective HP", a character has in multiplier (NNx, ie 14.00 is 14.00x) after avoidance and mitigation are taken to account.

Data set 3/4 (Normal, Chaos) in each image: Current system.
Data set 5/6 (Normal, Chaos) in each image: Post-proposal, using the 50% MHR bonus as the benchmark.

1H has a much higher effective EHP multiplier than dual wielding (30-70% higher even, with 50% higher EHP than DW of the same armor class on average) even after the change. Reading the columns and taking to account player attack damage, power armor is still much better, but the difference isn't nearly as pronounced. Of course, this assumes you can read.


Also, please show us your "awesome" DW/1H sets and how often they're used, and why you'd use them over just plain 2H/mage, because I'd be dying to know your PRO STRATS

This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Mar 3 2013, 19:16