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> [Suggestion] A few requests, Can we has...

 
post Aug 31 2012, 07:28
Post #5541
RajaNagaSoz



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QUOTE(aurabolt @ Aug 31 2012, 01:24) *

Tenboro isn't going to read all that wall of text. That's for sure.



haha, if Tenboro reads -any- of it i'll be surprised.
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post Aug 31 2012, 07:36
Post #5542
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If he does, Tenboro can probably summarize everything Lement said into one sentence.

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post Aug 31 2012, 07:40
Post #5543
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I've been sitting here reading the whole thing though... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)


Good thing you guys dropped the PA and Bleed talk early on, otherwise I might have to step in, since this issue is extremely delicate and it's clear to me that none of you actually know what you're talking about... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)
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post Aug 31 2012, 07:57
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QUOTE(aurabolt @ Aug 30 2012, 22:36) *

If he does, Tenboro can probably summarize everything Lement said into one picture.


ftfy
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post Aug 31 2012, 08:01
Post #5545
RajaNagaSoz



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QUOTE(buktore @ Aug 31 2012, 01:40) *

I've been sitting here reading the whole thing though... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
Good thing you guys dropped the PA and Bleed talk early on, otherwise I might have to step in, since this issue is extremely delicate and it's clear to me that none of you actually know what you're talking about... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)



All i know is i heard some higher levels saying bleed worked equally fine for them (comparative to PA) at some point not too long ago.

Back when bleed first changed to what it is currently when i was a bit lower in level then i am now, it lost a lot of it's luster in my experience at the time. That's all i really said about it.

I don't know all the workings of them, only the general idea, mostly because i'm not playing this game in a serious fashion.

Edit: i guess that could be worded better and more concise.



Essentially, i was just relaying info i overheard (overread?) from people who play a lot more than me, then a bit about my own experience.

This post has been edited by RajaNagaSoz: Aug 31 2012, 08:10
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post Aug 31 2012, 08:20
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QUOTE(Hitsuyou-H @ Aug 30 2012, 22:57) *

ftfy

Something like this but bigger and more obnoxious.
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post Aug 31 2012, 08:36
Post #5547
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reading: Haha, yes that was what I was thinking too.
RajaNagaSoz: True, sadly. Was a bit more unorthodox when I had to remember elemental resists and stuff off my head. Then I found search.
True about lootfest game, but nothing of value is lost if you can loot for more equipment sets - it just takes longer if more is useful.

buktore: A mage and a wizard walk into a bar.
Mage: Are swords any good?
Wizard: Nope. Are daggers any good?
Mage: Nope.

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post Aug 31 2012, 08:57
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It's just like a great wall of bad ideas IMO. I will try to see it there's good ideas left when I have some time lol

If you (or anyone) feels the game's too easy right now, I have to remind you that there's still monster lab part 2 out there.

If anyone's asking why high-level players are more powerful...well, we've spent out time.

And I would rather have one excellent melee weapon than 3 medicare ones. I think mages have dropped the 'buff the damn oak and willow staffs' line a long time ago? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
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post Aug 31 2012, 09:54
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(IMG:[i1212.photobucket.com] http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/chevaliermalfet/ehstuff/awesometwi.png)
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post Aug 31 2012, 13:49
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since i'm bored i'll tell you exactly why your ideas are bad:

QUOTE(Lement @ Aug 31 2012, 02:58) *

Suggestion:
a) A list with all rejected suggestions(with date). Search function isn't specific enough nor does it return pages, and there's too much overhead to go through this thread.

Suggestions that are rejected do not necessarily stay rejected as the game changes. What was a terrible fucking idea 10 versions ago may become a better idea now. Like additive accuracy!

QUOTE
(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Monster having self-buff skill option - migitates absorb, boosts confused, trades chance to OHKO only to fail and get potted for attempt to outdamage regen.

Normal monsters do not need this. OHKO is only a real problem near the point where you get Spark of Life.

QUOTE
c) I read about cotton being the fastest armor long ago in some thread, but that would still have to be balanced with mages as upper cap(unless the damage potential of melee can compare to mage, which would be just wrong). Cotton could be made more useful than it currently is(har har), by having a mana conversation boost, though, since lowering action speed just adds to damage and two things already do that(could be retroactively dependent on quality to not screw older players over). Also, it is kinda silly when melee can just spirit stance and get better MC boost than vast majority of focus staves while also doubling their damage, even if it is hampered by interference, not to mention that DW-melee can get far better MC from weapons than mage.

honestly this one, aside from the whining is pretty good

QUOTE
d) Mages should get some special reward from managing to spirit stance. Like, oh I don't know maybe doubled magic damage?
Still worse than for melee, but at least something.

mages used to have a damage boost from spirit stance but nobody used it. why? you had to spend a full round of action speed *NOT* doing damage or debuffing to get any overcharge. it was made more useful for everyone when it reduced mana cost, because the mechanic needed for ether theft improved mana regeneration by making stuff cost less because ether theft increases overcharge.

QUOTE
e) When Ether theft is triggered only that monster can hit the player. Makes Redwood more useful, though it is still a desperate tactic
as the price for failure to proc it there means essentially wasting a turn being hit by multiple monsters instead of killing those first, then proccing it.

Yes, let's nullify every other monster as a threat to the player, good idea.
And how does this specifically make redwood more useful?

QUOTE
f) Increasing the [physical] damage of Oak staves and make them use 2H proficiency and skills - preferably somewhere to the level where player would deal the most damage possible by choosing the best AoE spell for a given situation, then have to actually have enough staff damage to have it be more MP-efficient to occasionally smack monsters down. Would tie nicely in the lower MDB and heightened supportive and curative proficiencies.

ok hold on ok ok i have to stop myself for a moment here

QUOTE
f) Increasing the [physical] damage of Oak staves

ahaha

QUOTE
f) Increasing the [physical] damage of staves

ahahahahahahahahah

aren't you a fucking knee-slapper, suggesting a boost to things that were never useful throughout level 10 through infinity i bet you're going to suggest the removal of MDB from staffs entirely to be transferred to physical attack damage oh man what a joker

QUOTE
g) Leather, maybe, should then be the one to have varying levels of X-everything-but-attack(since Shade already adds damage, and there really is not much thought needed when choosing weapon proc in battle to match that. Or outside battle). Could scale well, with the increasing difference between mage gear and warrior gear preventing mage from manadumping all mana, then using godly mana pot and repeat.

leather is a trash drop with lots of mitigation for things that do not exist and will become marginally more useful when those things exist in a significant capacity, such as magical monster skills.

QUOTE
h) I heard shields are a bit weak. If this is true, would be appropriate to nerf the DW/2H styles.

yes, because melee needs more nerfing (LOL!!!) and not because there's a problem associated with the fact that monsters have an ability to ignore block and that shields would fare better if their block chance is boosted back to the range it used to have.

QUOTE
i) Also, since it makes high-tier Gossamer kind of pointless, it'd be good to nerf phase EDB scaling factor.

[A LESSON IN GAME MECHANICS]
-Proficiency has a higher base value, making it a lot more useful than EDB in the early level.
--Low leveled players get a nice boost from the oft-treated-as-junk Gossamer armor as a result, because it is less desirable to high leveled players.
-EDB is less effective the less proficiency one has, regardless of level.
--At mid (100-199) to high levels, the range of EDB is about half that of Proficiency, which means that assuming EDB ~= proficiency/2, they are at equal standing.
--If EDB is less than proficiency/2, it becomes less desirable.
--Players have passive stored proficiency, but do not have passive stored EDB, making it a necessary stat on equipment.
--Basically if EDB is lowered from proficiency/2 all players have less of a point to get it.
I'd put in more sarcasm here but I think I expended most of it on raising staff physical damage oh god man that's funny as shit

QUOTE
j) Buff undead's holy weakness from 75 to 50. Holy weakness is worse than elec, so although on paper they are better than mechanoids that is worsened by their similarity to other monsters and having two major weaknesses.

People generally stick with one element. Having monsters that are resistant and monsters that just crumble to those who use one element exclusively is actually a good idea. You want this design to be harmed?

QUOTE
k) Although I'm not sure how giant balances, they do have the highest melee damage and END and adding stats doesn't exactly compensate that. Although halving the skill power weakens them somewhat, given that the ones with closest stats(Undead/mechanoid) have both huge weaknesses giants probably should have one -50 weakness stat.

lack of weakness is the giant's actual selling point for monster lab. in general, physical damage skills on monsters are too numerous and too common and need to be replaced with magical damage skills or reduced across the board.

QUOTE
l) It would be awesome but impractical if the elemental damage from searing skin, freezing limbs, etc. could trigger each other.

aside from explosions, they don't deal elemental damage anymore, only debuffs.

QUOTE
m) Staves skill(stunning blow) should probably consume around 15-20% overcharge, not 50, to be useful sometimes - similar to defend.

that would be great if only overcharge was actually generated during spellcasting and it worked on more than one monster!!!!

QUOTE
n) Given the hallowing of "Penetrated armor", either bleeding wound should scale better with level, or penetrated armor be nerfed(maybe scale down with increasing level)

bleeding does scale better with level. its real problem is that its proc damage range is utter trash and provides no middle ground of damage/survivability between penetration and stun.

making penetrated armor scale *down* with increasing level would make estoc largely unused compared to mace again (the reason people use estocs is that they get a constant damage advantage at the complete cost of constant stun preventing hits. when mace users come across a problem, they just spend 100 overcharge to get rending blow.)

the reason procs are used is because they're *effective*. remove that, and they become just like bleed.

QUOTE
o) Battecaster equipment could have chance to drop with a proc that inflicts magical proc. Would increase the variety a bit.

Battlecaster is a poorly implemented thing in general due to the mechanics heavily favoring specialization by necessity (rounds are too short and nowhere near strategic enough to make room for hypothetical battlecaster play), but this wouldn't be a bad idea if it wasn't the case.

QUOTE
p) Powerup gem for all buffs, with appropriately adjusted duration.

The reason we have only four powerup gems is that they all provide a solid one-turn boost which can save a player's session. Buffs are less useful because they can be cast/stored by players through spells and scrolls.

But you really liked those element shock gems, huh? Have fun managing trash gems!

This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Aug 31 2012, 13:56
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post Aug 31 2012, 14:41
Post #5551
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Let scythe and katana have multiple equipment proc. And no I'm not kidding, that's the only way I think will make them actually useful across patches.
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post Aug 31 2012, 15:14
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varst: Um. Um. Multiple procs at same time on single item? I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that, so elaborate please.(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

bunker buster: A bit late, but since you posted new content..
e) Wiki lists that redwood has the highest ET proc,

f) As amusing as boosting stuff that is not used, it seems you don't get the [suggestion] part. It should actually be useful. Mages finally get their chance for that AoE magic missile. Would this actually be useful while being less useful than your average twohander for melee? I don't know. But it wouldn't be hard to find out!

g) See above.

i) Okay, not new content. Actually, I posted that exact same thing in the original post.

j) Yes. See my opinion on holding down R/button not killing you above.
Also, they already have a major fire weakness. Also also, most things are weak to holy so diversity. Finally, only one other monster has -75 to element, and has great defense to others to compensate. Named mechanoid.

k) Maybe. But atm, they have uncontested highest HP, best(with some others) regular damage, good resists, strong against melee and the price for that is halved skill power that is cast once between 8 and 9 rounds. While interesting price, it just isn't big enough when you compare with other monster lab monsters(also, I get tired from scanning then fighting yet another giant - enough that I just don't brother to scan in RE. Might as well create monsters "Another damn giant" numbered 1, 2 and 4).

n)'Kay, if you say so.Apparently the difference between best proc and worst proc changes patch to patch.

p) Eh. Well, they do have that flavor...What element shock gems? Something like the spike shields? That sounds useful.

This post has been edited by Lement: Aug 31 2012, 15:17
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post Aug 31 2012, 15:46
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QUOTE(varst @ Aug 31 2012, 19:41) *

Let scythe and katana have multiple equipment proc. And no I'm not kidding, that's the only way I think will make them actually useful across patches.


Just make bleed procs stack up to 3 times. Problem solved? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Make niten's waki and katana procs separate, both can stack up to 3 times. Yay niten?
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post Aug 31 2012, 15:48
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QUOTE(Bunker Buster @ Aug 31 2012, 18:49) *

mages used to have a damage boost from spirit stance but nobody used it.


Many did use it— Hito actually quite jazzed about it... Not to mentioned 4Everlost who, after the patch that removed the magic dmg boost, spent the entire patch period dedicating himself to went on rampage, wall-of-text spree about how much the game and its engineer sucks. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

It just that these people were busy facemelting mobs and didn't realized (or didn't care...) that many of their fellows brethren were enthusiastically shooting themselves in the foot (intentionally or not, I can't really tell) simply because they thought that it would make those damn melee riots to just STFU— and completely missing the point by doing so...

I, for one, have no problem with the mag dmg boost, I think it's a good idea in fact, and didn't make any attempt to have it removed from the game, and certainly didn't went around yelling to everyone in the street that "this free dmg boost is useless for us mage" ... Sad, really... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)


Looking back, I guess I have to give my thanks to them evangelist for these wonderful -25% mana cost on top of the 2x melee dmg boost + various changes to melee skill— So.. Thanks! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)




PS. Didn't participate much and only talk shit as of late... because I'm on a 'wait-and-see' period for now. I have a hunch that the 'big one' may come any time soon... I'll see it from there.

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post Aug 31 2012, 16:04
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QUOTE(Lement @ Aug 31 2012, 15:14) *

varst: Um. Um. Multiple procs at same time on single item? I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that, so elaborate please.(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

He does mean that, and it's a change not likely to be made. The better thing to do is to make bleed *useful*

QUOTE(Lement @ Aug 31 2012, 15:14) *

f) As amusing as boosting stuff that is not used, it seems you don't get the [suggestion] part. It should actually be useful. Mages finally get their chance for that AoE magic missile. Would this actually be useful while being less useful than your average twohander for melee? I don't know. But it wouldn't be hard to find out!

due to how the game works physical damage makes up a disproportionally large amount of quality for staffs and removing it and having staff damage equal fist damage would serve the game better, because you don't actually ever kill things with a staff as everything grows tons of resistance to 500 damage hits as opposed to dedicated melee with practical damage values in the mid-thousands, even at around level 100. Also troll.

QUOTE
i) Okay, not new content. Actually, I posted that exact same thing in the original post.

calling for "nerf edb" isn't exactly the same thing as pointing out how it works and how making it lower would make balancing EDB/prof much less useful than it is now, but you have a terminal inability to read so idk

QUOTE
j) Yes. See my opinion on holding down R/button not killing you above.
Also, they already have a major fire weakness. Also also, most things are weak to holy so diversity. Finally, only one other monster has -75 to element, and has great defense to others to compensate. Named mechanoid.

fair enough, considering holy doesn't have many strong monsters resistant to it

QUOTE
k) Maybe. But atm, they have uncontested highest HP, best(with some others) regular damage, good resists, strong against melee and the price for that is halved skill power that is cast once between 8 and 9 rounds. While interesting price, it just isn't big enough when you compare with other monster lab monsters(also, I get tired from scanning then fighting yet another giant - enough that I just don't brother to scan in RE. Might as well create monsters "Another damn giant" numbered 1, 2 and 4).

please note that all you have said also applies to dragonkin and mechanoid, and undead

you'd have to ask for base stat nerfs of those too. which i wouldn't exactly be against but not exactly the most constructive thing to do

QUOTE
n)'Kay, if you say so.Apparently the difference between best proc and worst proc changes patch to patch.

And so does viable procs.

QUOTE
p) Eh. Well, they do have that flavor...What element shock gems? Something like the spike shields? That sounds useful.

How useful are they when they deny the chance of other gems dropping, namely ones that can/will save your run? You seriously want weaker versions of buffs you can cast as an "oh shit" button?


Your mind is full of ideas that sound appealing when completely divorced from how the game actually works. I suggest you actually make an effort to understand the game before posting any further "suggestions".

This post has been edited by Bunker Buster: Aug 31 2012, 16:13
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post Aug 31 2012, 16:29
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You suggestions are awful so here a good one which will probably get ma some ichy the a-hole.png posts (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

How about monster in the Arena are getting stronger with each round like they do for GF/CF/IW!
Arena Challenges should be getting harder not just longer or more time consoling like Marathons.

I would suggest to cut Rounds in half for the later ones but in exchange pimp the monster power growth so the Trio and the Tree will have the strenght increase of a Round 500 Mob in Grindfest.

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post Aug 31 2012, 16:43
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QUOTE(sigo8 @ Aug 31 2012, 08:20) *

Something like this but bigger and more obnoxious.
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That will do, in fact.
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post Aug 31 2012, 16:47
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QUOTE(Ichy @ Aug 31 2012, 18:29) *
I would suggest to cut Rounds in half for the later ones but in exchange pimp the monster power growth so the Trio and the Tree will have the strenght increase of a Round 500 Mob in Grindfest.

"Hello, it's Ichyzibit and "Pimp My Monster" on MTV..."
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post Aug 31 2012, 17:36
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QUOTE(Evil Scorpio @ Aug 31 2012, 16:47) *

"Hello, it's Ichyzibit and "Pimp My Monster" on MTV..."

I'm more after a Challenge.

When I started HV and see how Hito and others where able to do the Arenas on BT I was thinking that was awesome. Now everyone can do the Arenas on IWBTH while being brain afk so something has to be done.

Maybe just add a Difficulty ABOVE IWBTH. Drops will be the same so this one can be ridiculous and is just here for the challenge.
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post Aug 31 2012, 17:38
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Considering Cure I heals a large potion of health already (from ~40% to 100% depending on level):

CureII should heal to up to 150% of maximum health.
CureIII should heal to up to 200% of maximum health.

While being less efficient, this makes them useful situational spells where you would be bracing for multiple hits from very strong monsters.
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