[X] My Assistant

Golden Sun was also saying Elementalist was the preferred suffix for Ebony, so....

Skillchip's data shows I'm right so....

Skillchip's data shows I'm right so....

orly?

blah blah

all of your suggestions except for c are profoundly bad

all of your suggestions except for c are profoundly bad

I'm no math major, but how is a) profoundly bad?

Who are you suggesting take the time to compile and maintain this list? As I understand it the thread is basically for Tenboro to glance over once in a while to see if his fancy is tickled.

If for [a] alone, this one I can give you an additional answer! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

······················

Q: How is a) profoundly bad?

A: Because it's bad.

Whoever cares about HVerse enough, maybe Tenboro since it would be offical, but overall it would save the time of pretty much everyone(everyone, actually, if Tenboro maintains no matter how often the list is glanced at).
And given the maintaining involves pushing edit button, well. Not very difficult.

Barring a few glaring exceptions, we don't know what suggestions he has rejected.
He doesn't really speak his mind too often and he has a very liberal definition of the "soon" in "I'll implement it soon".

Ouch. Well.

What about something as simple d) Spirit Stance giving same damage bonus to mages as melees? or g) Leather being X-Leather sans for attack or l) elemental proc trigging eachother.

At worst, they'll boost stuff to the level where they are a bit more viable, thus increasing variety. Unless I'm wrong?

This post has been edited by Lement: Aug 31 2012, 04:42

Spirit Stance giving same damage bonus to mages as melees?

I get a grim satisfaction every time I see new player asking for this. (IMG:[bbs.pramool.com] http://bbs.pramool.com/webboard/pic/20.gif)

...

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

This post has been edited by buktore: Aug 31 2012, 04:57

Oh oh, i'm bored, lemme look at this...



Suggestion:
a) A list with all rejected suggestions(with date). Search function isn't specific enough nor does it return pages, and there's too much overhead to go through this thread.


Haha, whoever has time for this and is bored enough, i'd like to see them try. backtracking through 270 pages of this would be terrible.


(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Monster having self-buff skill option - migitates absorb, boosts confused, trades chance to OHKO only to fail and get potted for attempt to outdamage regen.


This would really only help mobs in IWBTH, and even then not enough, since generally we're mowing them down ASAP so they don't get a skill off at all if possible. Generally this would be bad for trying to get kills as it wouldn't be beating someone's face in with the rest of it's gang.


c) I read about cotton being the fastest armor long ago in some thread, but that would still have to be balanced with mages as upper cap(unless the damage potential of melee can compare to mage, which would be just wrong). Cotton could be made more useful than it currently is(har har), by having a mana conversation boost, though, since lowering action speed just adds to damage and two things already do that(could be retroactively dependent on quality to not screw older players over). Also, it is kinda silly when melee can just spirit stance and get better MC boost than vast majority of focus staves while also doubling their damage, even if it is hampered by interference, not to mention that DW-melee can get far better MC from weapons than mage.


IIRC, cotton was the fastest in ancient times when burden mattered about action speed and being lv 250+ was reserved for myths and legend. Giving -only cotton- access to mana conservation would actually make it useful, possibly too useful, it'd have to be too small an amount so people couldn't stack it too much, and even then you're cutting out damage potential for lasting power, and that's cutting off one end of the rope to tie it onto the other end because you deal less damage, have to cast more attack spells per round, are slower to kill things allowing them to hit you more, you have to cast cure more because of that.

Even if battlecaster weapons can add up to more MC than a focus staff, again, the rope analogy.



d) Mages should get some special reward from managing to spirit stance. Like, oh I don't know maybe doubled magic damage?
Still worse than for melee, but at least something.


They do, they get the same MC as melee does from it, except mages have all-hit spells instead of "one-or-some hit" domino strikes to use it on too.



e) When Ether theft is triggered only that monster can hit the player. Makes Redwood more useful, though it is still a desperate tactic
as the price for failure to proc it there means essentially wasting a turn being hit by multiple monsters instead of killing those first, then proccing it.


Haha, wow that's pretty broken, it sounds like you mena if we proc ET all the other monsters have to sit and wait instead of mauling us like honestly, they should. It's not a provocation into a Duel, it's smacking it with your puny stick to suck out it's mp.


f) Increasing the psychical damage of Oak staves and make them use 2H proficiency and skills - preferably somewhere to the level where player would deal the most damage possible by choosing the best AoE spell for a given situation, then have to actually have enough staff damage to have it be more MP-efficient to occasionally smack monsters down. Would tie nicely in the lower MDB and heightened supportive and curative proficiencies.


It's been talked about to actually lower the damage of staffs or even remove it altogether and make us just use barehands damage specifically to STOP from killing things mages want to ET from.



g) Leather, maybe, should then be the one to have varying levels of X-everything-but-attack(since Shade already adds damage, and there really is not much thought needed when choosing weapon proc in battle to match that. Or outside battle). Could scale well, with the increasing difference between mage gear and warrior gear preventing mage from manadumping all mana, then using godly mana pot and repeat.


I'm not really sure what you're saying here, unless you're implying giving leather the same stat types as power armor, which sounds awful and weird.



h) I heard shields are a bit weak. If this is true, would be appropriate to nerf the DW/2H styles.


Please don't say "nerf something useful so something not as useful feels better", we don't need a no-style-left-behind act for HV. If it sucks it needs to get better or find a niche to fit in.


i) Also, since it makes high-tier Gossamer kind of pointless, it'd be good to nerf phase EDB scaling factor.


How about no, see response to H)


j) Buff undead's holy weakness from 75 to 50. Holy weakness is worse than elec, so although on paper they are better than mechanoids that is worsened by their similarity to other monsters and having two major weaknesses.


I'm not as thoroughly versed in monster stuff, but if i recall, having worse elements allows them to upgrade further. Not that that's useful for anyone who hasn't gone crystal nuts yet.


k) Although I'm not sure how giant balances, they do have the highest melee damage and END and adding stats doesn't exactly compensate that. Although halving the skill power weakens them somewhat, given that the ones with closest stats(Undead/mechanoid) have both huge weaknesses giants probably should have one -50 weakness stat.


I thought everyone stopped complaining about giants a patch or two ago when they got nerfed for the third or fourth time...? Are they really still that hard for the really low levels?


l) It would be awesome but impractical if the elemental damage from searing skin, freezing limbs, etc. could trigger each other.


This sounds extremely arbitrary. I thought the explosion damage was based off of the attack's damage (i could be wrong?) so wouldn't the very minor damage from those, cause a terribly small explosion, AND removing the debuff portion of it which is more useful?


m) Staves skill(stunning blow) should probably consume around 15-20% overcharge, not 50, to be useful sometimes - similar to defend.


I think the skill should be changed from what it is anyway, using less OC isn't going to make it any more useful unless a high level mage wanted to try to use it to bonk 501st or similar for a few rounds while they cleaned up the other rabble...


n) Given the hallowing of "Penetrated armor", either bleeding wound should scale better with level, or penetrated armor be nerfed(maybe scale [i]down with increasing level)[/i]

Anything scaling down is a terrible idea. Bleed being better for mid-levels would be welcome, but apparently in higher levels it works just as well as PA for some people.


o) Battecaster equipment could have chance to drop with a proc that inflicts magical proc. Would increase the variety a bit.


...which magical proc...? or do you mean Channeling? If so, haha, oh wow, broken.


p) Powerup gem for all buffs, with appropriately adjusted duration.


Mana is the only really useful one for now anyway i mena, i GUESS the Spirit one is useful if you're getting hammered up there with spirit shield... but diluting that pool of gems would mean less mana gems and thus be a bad idea.


I can't believe i took the time for all this, and i'm sure others with more expertise could correct a number of problems with my own assertions. If i am wrong about anything i referenced, i apologize in advance.

On HV font engine the font is smaller (compared to everywhere else) in the HP,MP, and SP bars as well as inside the attachement / COD lines in moogle mail.
But when using downloadable or custom fonts its larger in those locations. Meaning it has to be oversized (and overflowing) there or microfont elsewhere.

Also, using downloadable fonts "use energy drink" is impossible.

Also, using ANY of the 3 font engines, the second page of arena headings clips into the first page.
That is, where it says:
Challenge Highest Clear Min Level Rounds EXP Mod Clear Bonus
it clips into the line (not text, an actual line) from the first page... and this is with any of the 3 font engines.

You must really hate nerfs on half of those:p

Nerfing is easier and less time-consuming than buffing equipment and monsters, plus it doesn't cause Lensman Arms Race.

Also, I have glanced that Tenboro apparently likes to nerf, so there's that appeal value as
well.

As for g) I meant that Leather should decrease turns taken for stuff that's not attacking the enemy, making other buttons in it more useful.

c) It would make it either better or worse(or always worse or always better depending on the numbers) depending on the monsters faced.

e) Really? Only Redwood has 50% proc, others have lot lower, and getting hit by 3 monsters you could have killed instead with a spell most of the time seems like quite a deterrent(unless you couldn't have killed them, in which case, well. A bit too much of a buff if you get at least average 1 turn of ET).

h) No, I meant for just meleeing after the initial 1-2 spells.

j) If so, wiki doesn't mention that.

l) Didn't know that. Also, they do too receive the damage type that causes them to explode, so (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif).

m) Well, indeed, a button should not be the best button to click on vast majority of the time, that becomes both tedious and allows one to hold it down.

o) No, I meant the searing skin, freezing limbs, etc.

This post has been edited by Lement: Aug 31 2012, 05:13

You must really hate nerfs on half of those:p

Nerfing is easier and less time-consuming than buffing equipment and monsters, plus it doesn't cause Lensman Arms Race.

Also, I have glanced that Tenboro apparently likes to nerf, so there's that appeal value as
well.

Honestly not entirely against nerfing, but i never like nerfing for the sake of "well, A isn't very good, lets make B shittier"

If anything, i'd much more be interested in seeing things grow further apart from one another yet stay useful in their own way. Such as dual-wield being excellent for RoB.


As for g) I meant that Leather should decrease turns taken for stuff that's not attacking the enemy, making other buttons in it more useful.

Like an action speed bonus for non-attacks? I doubt it would be as useful as expected.


c) It would make it either better or worse(or always worse or always better depending on the numbers) depending on the monsters faced.

As far as i've been told from the higher mages when i started maging, it's all about blowing the enemy up before they can hit you (because you'll probably die if they do), so sacrificing as much damage as you'd have gained with EDB phase, to save mana would only be giving the monsters more chances to hit you (and that's bad).

However, it could be useful for prof grinding... but i doubt that would make it useful enough.


e) Really? Only Redwood has 50% proc, others have lot lower, and getting hit by 3 monsters you could have killed instead with a spell most of the time seems like quite a deterrent(unless you couldn't have killed them, in which case, well. A bit too much of a buff if you get at least average 1 turn of ET).

I don't think ETing while more then 1 monster is left (and active) is a good idea anyway, i've been trying to get into the habit of ETing the last mob in some rounds and it works ok, but i'd never ET in the middle of 5 mobs, and buffing it to stop the other 4 from attacking you just seems to be overdoing it. Unless you meant that in some other way and i/you misunderstood/miscommunicated.


h) No, I meant for just meleeing after the initial 1-2 spells.

Wasn't H about shields?


j) If so, wiki doesn't mention that.

Well, [blip.tv] I'm not entirely sure...


l) Didn't know that. Also, they do too receive the damage type that causes them to explode, so (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif).

Same as above. I'm not entirely sure...


m) Well, indeed, a button should not be the best button to click on vast majority of the time, that becomes both tedious and allows one to hold it down.

huh?


o) No, I meant the searing skin, freezing limbs, etc.


Oh... that seems kind of pointless since if you're going to mage, you'll use a staff to get all that delicious magic damage/prof bonus/EDB/PAB's. Now, if elemental weapons proc'd their respective associated debuffs, AND exploded the ones they should.... Then combining both that and this idea MIGHT make something interesting, but i doubt it would be useful enough to warrant the time spent on adding it when other things need more attention.

On HV font engine the font is smaller (compared to everywhere else) in the HP,MP, and SP bars as well as inside the attachement / COD lines in moogle mail.
But when using downloadable or custom fonts its larger in those locations. Meaning it has to be oversized (and overflowing) there or microfont elsewhere.

Also, using downloadable fonts "use energy drink" is impossible.

Also, using ANY of the 3 font engines, the second page of arena headings clips into the first page.
That is, where it says:
Challenge Highest Clear Min Level Rounds EXP Mod Clear Bonus
it clips into the line (not text, an actual line) from the first page... and this is with any of the 3 font engines.

Mine doesn't have any of those problems (custom font), however, i've gotten mention that some think my font is awful, lol.

My only problem is that the Spell damage bonus section sits part way onto the proficency part on the right hand column section.

Edit: whoops, didn't mean to double post for this, i got a little quick on the draw.

This post has been edited by RajaNagaSoz: Aug 31 2012, 05:45

c) True, but higher levels have spark and shield, preventing them from dying from that.
h) Meant f, My bad.
g) True. But as of now, leather loses out in every situation against either of the light armors.
o) Or actually have some version of casting spells and meleeing. Although that doesn't work, would it be that hard to make it worth it to cast an AoE against nine enemies?
e) Maybe it is, but battles having less monotony - a chance to proc staff skill actually being useful - seems both nice and thematically appropriate.
Last line: Applied to everything, by that point, doing pretty much anything in hv is useless.

c) Only for so long. Once the SP is gone, and the potions they may have brought are gone, with no sp gem, it's the end of the line. Saving mana is good and all, but killing faster is always a higher priority. In this game in particular, the quote "the best defense is a good offense" is correct.

h) f) Well, honestly, if you're going to melee, just melee, if you're going to mage... mage. If you want to melee and mage that bad, take advantage of what you were saying earlier about dual-wield getting such great Mana conservation then if it's so good (not meaning this in an assholish way, if you think it's good take advantage of that)

g) And so does cotton to gossamer and phase really. Leather got a buff when they ditched Dragon-hide because they buffed it to basically be what dragon-hide was (i think). Which was the magic-resist type.

Unfortunately "dragon-hide" sounds cooler than "leather" (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)


o) There HAVE been a few times i accidently went into a BT hourly in the wrong set and just hunkered down and cast spells anyway sucking mana pots like capri sun. It worked ok, but it ate mana like a bitch.

You could look at it like oldschool D&D. If you wear heavy armor you're going to suck at spells, if you wear robes as a melee you're going to die.


e) Maybe it is, but battles having less monotony - a chance to proc staff skill actually being useful - seems both nice and thematically appropriate.

I'm pretty sure there's something here not transferring properly. It sounds to me like you're saying "if you proc ET whacking a mob with your staff, then all other mobs form a circle and cheer him on without attacking while you can still cast AOE spells"

This sounds wildly inappropriate, as no mage in his right mind is going to trot out onto the battlefield full of enemies and smack an orc/robot/loli catgirl guitarist assassin/dragon upside it's head and none of them in their right minds would respond by then dueling you one on one with no interference by the other monsters around with them.

If all you mean is some way to gain staff proficiency besides physically smacking enemies with your stick, others have suggested letting other things do so (rather than some way of just bonking things in the middle of brawls and getting away with it)

If instead you mean a way for staffs to be used in melee that makes sense, Battle staffs have been suggested.


*Note*: i realize the proper spelling is Staves, but apparently my browser doesn't agree, and that little wiggly red line all over the place drives me enough nuts saying "mage" all the time now.



Last line: Applied to everything, by that point, doing pretty much anything in hv is useless.

If you meant "...but i doubt it would be useful enough to warrant the time spent on adding it when other things need more attention." then you can pull it out and mean just about any entertainment.

There's always a weighing of (amount of required effort) versus (useful possible results) with a modifier of (interest).


If you meant just playing hv in general is useless... then yeah, you're right. It's a huge waste of time. You earn credits to spend on it itself or to download porn you can view online at anytime here right now anyway, it's made to spend more credits than you CAN earn. It's not few graphics, no story, no exploration (besides stat and equipment builds), no quests, no characters (monsters don't count as they are merely nametags to attack), no music, and no ending. It goes on forever, everything gets harder, and the numbers get bigger.

Really, it's a completely utterly useless waste of time to play. Now, i need to do my newest hourly so i can possibly get a better equipment drop so i can see the numbers i make show up become slightly bigger!

(I hope no one takes that "playing HV is useless" the wrong way, hard to convey how i would have said it in text.)

c) True - but it would (hopefully) be useful enough to wield in single or double battle? Just like how 2H is better against lot of monsters(unless it isn't).
f) & e) really. It is more that "holding down buttons to determine your speed is wrong, in a text game your connection shouldn't account for more than 1% of your speed, compared to say, skill".
e) Well, Tenboro did say that you run in the middle of monsters to cast, albeit maybe he was being sarcastic(and a girl).
Also, honor: Often illogical. But I meant more that staff skills being useful outside before you're basically torturing the monsters.

Also, in general, when there's n pieces of different equipment, maybe there shouldn't be n! competitive ways to combine them, but more than 6 would be nice when n is 2.9523279904e+38.

And for the last: Exactly my point -but I don't know much more issues in HV that need fixing(and are not noted), so it would be nice when time is spent on HV.

c) dunno, doubt it.
f) & e) Well, in effect, HV is skill, it's just almost all pre-fight strategy. It's what you wear and what you're going to do with it, whether it's "stab" or "explode" in whatever fashion you choose. You could go like 4everlost and stack mitigation and walk in on IWBTH and post to us getting crit for 344 damage when your hp is in the mid 5-digits


e) Likely just an analogy rather than how it was intended, in a game like this, (and wizardry, and whatnot) if you discount rows, you're basically standing in a line like revolutionary English musket soldiers pot-shotting at each other across a field.

I think any player would like most any weapon being useful, but unfortunately that's now how a loot-fest type of game works, it's about playing forever and ever to get the highest % out of the right type of right piece of right colored correct shaped thingamabobber for every slot you can duct tape something to yourself, and everything below the closest thing you have to that is crap.

There's lots of unfinished yet planned stuff, i think instead of your original idea of putting up a list of what was suggested and rejected, a more detailed list of what's planned or approved to be thought about at least, i know there is one of some sort on the wiki, but i can't remember where it was.

This post has been edited by RajaNagaSoz: Aug 31 2012, 07:18

Tenboro isn't going to read all that wall of text. That's for sure.