[X] My Assistant

The problem is that I've never seen any forums which require people to pay before posting a new thread.
EH sub-forum is already a special case where strict moderation is applied/suggested. Making the rules even stricter may make the EH sub-forum alienated from other parts of forum.

WTS/WTB section:

Problems
1. More players selling equipments/items nowadays.
2. No clustering of sales.
3. No moderator actively removing/deleting the threads.
4. No separation between auctions and shops, which have different duration.

Solutions:
1. Remove finished auctions into idle sub-forum so people can sometimes refer to that.
2. Separate shop and auctions, probably by pinning active auctions.
As far as I've observed there is no more than 10 auctions happening at the same time, so that won't clutter WTS.
We may also impose rules so that there's a limit on the number of active auctions.
3. Re-introduce threads like the general market, with a definite categorization on subjects in sale, like equipments/haths/ponies/items/crystals.
4. Formalize the name of threads/auction rules to improve efficiency.

Chat section:

I haven't seen too many new threads. Maybe there's 1-2 of them daily, but I don't think they clutter the forum.
( It only agitate other users)
And most of the new threads are from new players who don't even know there's additional forum guildlines, so they shouldn't be guilty of their first offense.
Proper guidance is needed, not strict rules which deters players from posting.

Edit: we should also advice players to use the general thread unless they have tons of things to sale

This post has been edited by varst: Jan 19 2012, 08:55

A sincere warning: 'Message Board Elitism' never brings anything productive, and everything involved will usually ended in pain and suffering.

....

Racist bindings (eg: Binding of the Giant-Slayer)~

But then, with the current mechanics, there need to be a racist suffix first, which most likely will occur on weapon, before you could have a binding to upgrade said suffix ... I wonder if people would actually use such thing since that would lower the damage for everything else but 1 type of mobs? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Also, for it to be implement, the game complexity need to be increased. I'm not sure if Tenb would ready, or even want, to do such thing yet. If he do, there will open up a lot of possibility.


I'm not trying criticizing your idea, BTW. But your simple request has far-reaching implication I just feel like discuss about it a bit.

This post has been edited by buktore: Jan 19 2012, 09:43

Just tossing ideas around. Not really fond of it since it'd just make another 12 useless bindings.

Well anything that's "negative" to the players would be complained about regardless but I think it'd clear a lot of the clutter on the forum (hopefully) especially since we don't really have a mod in the chat section. And since the rule applies specifically to the HV chat section none of the other forum sections would be compromised.

Edit: In all honestly I think a mechanic of this sort has a very nice potential to keep the HV chat section very clean. (without the need of a mod)

Uhm what's exactly the problem with the WTS/WTB section?

I mean, they seem to work fine to me, the new shops that have been spawning aren't just made for just two items (aside from maybe two), and you'll always have the random guy post the most worthless thread in the wrong section (talking about the Chat section here).
It's the internet and that is bound to happen.

The only thing I'd probably mention is the non-distinction between auctions and shops as far as sections go: there's always at least about 3-5 auctions going, and it definitely feels a bit clutterish at times.
It's still very bearable though. Edit: Well maybe not that much, lots of auction and threads going on atm :E
Having 2 different sections may mean one more click to check them both for buyers, but that will also be way smoother.
I also think it'd be much better than just pinning auctions, that should be for guidelines etc.

About the entry fee for creating threads, when you add a 10k fee to create a shop thread you pretty much forbid low level players to make some money with their shop, since their equip won't be that valuable anyway, so that's a big no if you ask me.
And if it's 1k, pretty much nobody is gonna care about that because is too low.

Imho what might be needed is just better moderation: basically prompt deletion of threads and some standard, stronger guidelines for making and managing threads. Something like:

- Only one shop per user allowed in the WTS/WTB section (or maybe two if you wanna split between consumables and gear in the WTB one)
- Only a single bump per day in, transactions and imminent needs aside
- No more than a single auction per user going on (not that I've seen more than one)

Stuff like that, to basically prevent spam and provide a clearer, easier to navigate section.

I totally second having new mods in this sense, if the current ones are having trouble managing things: you just need a couple, maybe three of them, so that the burden won't be on one poor soul.

I personally don't like threads like the general market one, since navigating them it's a pain in the arse when there's a lot of activity - and when you want to sell something, you need visibility, not a post which can end up in the previous page 1 minute later.
I think everybody is entitled to his own thread (what's useless to one person might be worth it for someone else) as long as he follows guidelines and is not flooding the section with threads...

This post has been edited by wr4st3r: Jan 19 2012, 12:27

threads like the general market

Not really the best choice for the Star-less folks who can't edit posts older than two day-ish.

Not really the best choice for the Star-less folks who can't edit posts older than two day-ish.

Of dang it, I forgot that (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Just want to group things into different clusters, but it seems highly improbable without the ability to edit the posts

can we have gem drops be more noticeable... i.e. different color text or something

use HVStat for that

HVstat causes too much problems, some serious memory leak or something

Clean Chrome+HV stat works well, no memory leak problem.
You can try that.

Just tossing ideas around. Not really fond of it since it'd just make another 12 useless bindings.

Not useless if tenb makes it possible to add a Damage to monster type XY Ability to Weapons. And maybe heavy gear.

looks like chrome does work nicely... but i'd still prefer to use just one browser (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

I just don't like the ding/ping sound whenever I use a hotkey for the quickbar on chrome

I had to disable that in control panel > sounds

@Varst I think the HV chat is already alienated as is in a way and when it comes to WTB/WTS section, that was never really intended to be a place for discussions to occur to begin with. As for no other forum using a toll, there's always a first time for everything =)

I think more people selling equipment/items is good because it helps the market overall but no clustering is bad since you get a lot of posts being bumped off/cycled through. I've seen this happen on almost every other forum I frequent. It's ugly. It ends up with a vicious cycle of early bumps to just stay on the first page (which is not a good reason but many people use that excuse anyways). Many players do *not* look past the first page - in fact many players do not look past the first 6 posts of a forum section. This is a fact. There have been many instances where I've seen first post has gotten a deal despite 2-5 other posters offering higher/better rates a few posts down.

I'm not 100% my solution sure it'll work, but I think it's very worth the try.

As for solutions you suggested, the removing of auctions is something only mods can do right now. If there was a timer *implemented* in the forum or an automatic thread idle mechanism that kills the auction after a set time, auctions would be no problem. I've seen the latter used on forums.

IMO an auction doesn't really deserve pinning. If the auctioneer picked the right goods/items, it'll naturally stay on top. If the goods don't appeal to the buyers it'll naturally get 0 bumps/bids. There's no reason to prioritize them over shop threads.

As tiap mentioned, the general market doesn't work no more. But it's still possible to make a small market place thread if people have small needs (it can be pinned, would just get a lot of bumps although IMO it's not really necessary)

Auction/Shop tag would be nice for thread titles as well especially if there's a color code involved (One color for shop and another for auction)

As for HV chat thread, it's not bad. But there's only been a handful of threads that's actually been necessary in that section. The frequency isn't that of a new thread being started but I think that's because the active HV population isn't that high. I exchanged PMs with a player who asked for help in "Ask the Experts" thread prior to him making own thread simply because his own thread will attract more attention from high level players. Having that credit fee is useful for making them think: is that "attention" worth the credit fee.

@wr4st3r Just because it happens often doesn't mean it's alright. "It's the internet and that is bound to happen"? I don't think that's the right mentality for anyone that desires improvement. And honestly, I don't want to sound insulting but it hints at complacency - the masterful ingredient to disaster (bah risk management courses).

I think a separate forum section for auctions/shops respectively is a nice idea since the two attract different types of buyers, but I'm thinking it's not really going to appeal to T. It just means extra work for him. Thread credit toll on the other hand... Might appeal to him a tad more (although I assume it'd be minimal at best)

My opinion about pinning was voiced in my reply to Varst (I want to keep this essay as short as possible but for the sake of accuracy in language I have to use full sentences otherwise trolls will nitpick)

The cost itself is a prototype idea. It can be balanced. (Scale to level? Scale to how long you've been here inversely? Combination of both?) I'm sure there are more, I thought of those 2 in the span of 15 seconds. But yes you're right, a flat fee won't be that useful since theoretically someone making huge credit amount can spam all they want (but just because the toll is in place doesn't make the existing rules are moot - if someone spamming now will receive repercussions, why wouldn't they when the toll is in place?) and someone poor won't be able to post at all.

Ideally, the toll should lighten 90%-100% of the mod duties in the section but if it even lightens the load by 50% I think it's pretty effective.

Better moderation would be a nice solution on paper but there's just a few problems with that. We have a shortage of moderators as is. It's not a walk in the park being a diplomatic moderator and having to guide the newbies around - I've read a few threads in the past where posters were actually flaming Sayo (iirc). T doesn't look like he plans on promoting any moderators any time soon and I don't see Sayo come back anytime soon either.

So rather than hitting the dead horse, I went with my suggestion in hopes for an alternative solution.

There's no reason to split consumables and gear into separate threads. It's the same person buying.
Bump rule is not a big problem from what I've seen, *most* players are pretty respectful of that here.
There are no multiple auctions per user - that's counterproductive.

Edit: quick edit for formatting

This post has been edited by dcherry: Jan 19 2012, 22:14

You can turn off the dings in Chrome by disabling System Sounds from the volume mixer (Start → Run → "sndvol" or "sndvol32"). They're not that useful anyway.

might be a bad idea or have already been suggested but give weapons a suffix that can change damage types (and maybe a slight bonus to damage or something) i.e. of the piercing for piercing dmg, of the slashing, maybe even magical attributes like of the flame with elemental damage bonus, etc.

Better moderation would be a nice solution on paper but there's just a few problems with that. We have a shortage of moderators as is. It's not a walk in the park being a diplomatic moderator and having to guide the newbies around - I've read a few threads in the past where posters were actually flaming Sayo (iirc). T doesn't look like he plans on promoting any moderators any time soon and I don't see Sayo come back anytime soon either.

need more moderators (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif), also dcherry, this "There are no multiple auctions per user - that's counterproductive." was just violated

and thanks Tiap, and Ballistic, I'll try that out again

This post has been edited by skillchip: Jan 19 2012, 23:19

That reminds me, I have to bump my thread >_>

need more moderators (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif), also dcherry, this "There are no multiple auctions per user - that's counterproductive." was just violated

Doh. Well I don't see the logic in it. But w/e's - I still think it's counterproductive (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Edit: In the current case it doesn't look like he'll cannibalize himself but I don't really see any good reasoning for him to do what he did.

This post has been edited by dcherry: Jan 20 2012, 00:06