[X] My Assistant

i don't see a point in giving donators the same awards that people earn by working for an extended period of time. they *need* to be different things imo. stackable at best, but different nonetheless, because different is the way they support the site.

Well, that's reasonable, as people who work hard for an entire year deserve something different, but it's weird to say that these rewards aren't meant for people who play HV when they add XP modifiers, and the award tiers are already different enough between them.

Mod Power doens't need to be talked about, as it's for people to improve their contributions to the site, but the passive Hath and credits could be both used for bounties or for playing HV, and the XP bonus is exclusive to HV.

Having a 4th tier award that doesn't grant Mod Power and just small benefits to HV by themselves shouldn't be such a bad thing, as the contributors should mostly be working for the Mod Power and passive Hath and credits, while HV players would go after the XP bonus and passive income, making the 4th tier awards that comes with Catgirl essentially better looking cookies.

This post has been edited by Kinights: Apr 4 2017, 23:47

then blue penguin answered to that point: it may be a good idea, but a further step will be needed only with a bigger community, so maybe in the next future.

look here: https://ehwiki.org/wiki/awards#Ranking_Points

there's already a tendency to add some steps every few years, so maybe this 4th-class award is already a WIP.

Once again, suggestion for rebirth system.

I suggested previously the creation of a Diablo III similar mechanic for HV, where after the 500 level cap the player would be able to continue earning XP, and would gain access to new difficulties with better drops and such.

I still think it's an interesting suggestion, but one thing I couldn't solve with that is the gear progression, where we would depend on a patch to increase equipment rolls or add a new higher equiment tier/s above legendary.

It would also make some heavy grinders that level up a lot become monsters with PABs alone, so it might be unreasonable to make the game's progression actually unlimited(even though I'd love to be an OP monster (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)).

This suggestion includes the rebirth system itself, the benefits given to the player when reseting his/hers/its character completely and the involvement with gear progression.

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Rebirth System

The system would be quite simple.

Use a certain amount of soul fragments to reset the player's level, XP, ability points and proficiency, bringing them back to the starting point, or New Game+ to make it sound better.

The player would keep the trainning levels and everything in the inventory during the process, but any equiped items that aren't soulfused or have a higher level requirement will be unequipped after the rebirth.

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Benefits

The main reasons a player would rebirth their character, other than simply to play the game from scratch again, would be:

XP Bonus

Can be a simple math of level/10 or the level itself, so a level 300 character that rebirths would get an extra +30%(or +300%) permanent XP bonus, adding or stacking with the trainning.

Proficiency Gain Rate Bonus

Same, using level/10 or the level itself, so a level 300 character rebirthing would get an extra +30%(or +300%) in proficiency gain rate, adding or stacking with the trainning.

Attribute bonus

Simple too, with the character getting bonus PABs like the ones gotten from artifacts, with level/10, so a level 300 character would get +30 bonus in all PABs.

If it's too much, players would instead have to choose one attribute to assign the points to, like +30 STR or +30 INT.

Other than that, it could have a better cutomizeable option to freely assign these extra points, like +10 STR, +10 DEX and +10 END or +20 INT and +10 WIS for example.

+Proficiency Bonus

This was added after the initial post.

Much like the bonus PABs, the player could also be able to choose to convert their level to bonus proficiency, being level/10, so a level 300 character that rebirths would get an additional +30 bonus to all proficiencies, to a chosen one in the process or be able to assign the extra points to any proficiency however they wish, like +15 One-handed and +15 Heavy Armor or +15 Divine and +15 Cloth armor for example.

Equipment Roll Bonus

Simple as well, with level/100, so a level 300 character that rebirths would get a +3% bonus on equipment drop rolls.

+Choice

I didn't include this in my initial post, but in the case that rebirthing offers a bit too many benefits to the player, instead of getting all the available bonuses together when rebirthing, the player could instead get a window pop up to choose how to convert their level to, having the many available options of conversion.

This would increase the amount of rebirths a player would do, where most would probably go for the gear roll bonuses first, then probably PABs/proficiencies and then the other two, but depending on how the system is implemented in the aspect of cost and required time, some players might just ditch the extra bonuses to XP and proficiency gain rate.

It can be fixed by making these two more eye catching to players by increasing their final result, like doubling their final number or just granting a huge bonus of the level itself, making a level 300 that rebirths get a 300% bonus XP or proficiency gain rate for example, which could compete more with the others that offer instant benefits than one that can only be seen over time.

+Showing off

This was added after the initial post as well.

Currently, high levels after 400 are quite an achievement, and level 500 is pretty much a status itself to show the player's effort in getting to max level, but this system would shadow it quite a bit, not showing the "entire true effort" the player had over many rebirths.

This can be fixed by adding a rebirth level(similar to how paragon would be shown on Diablo III).

It can be simple, like the level on rebirth/10, so a player who rebirthed 10 times at level 300 would have a [300] next to their current "normal" level.

This of course wouldn't show a "true" progression, as a player who rebirthed once at level 500 would show the same achievement of [50] as another player who did two rebirths at level 250.

This can be fixed by making a more complex formula, where the rebirth level depends on the amount of rebirths done, so on the same example, the math would be:

-Level 500 player

(500/10)/1 = 50 rebirth level

-Level 250 player

(250/10)/1 = 25 rebirth level
(250/10)/2 = 12~13 rebirth level

final rebirth level = 37~38

Besides making players who care for looks more aware of keeping their rebirth progression clean, it adds a natural experience formula to the rebirth level, where a higher number will become harder to achieve with every new rebirth, becoming quite a slow process after a ridiculous number like 100 or more rebirths.

It can and should of course be a more complex number and calculation method, like using instead the natural xp progression that would exist past level 500 and dividing the level by 10, so someone who rebirths once at level 500 would get a 50 rebirth level, but when rebirthing at 500 again the addition would be less than 50, as it would be the experience required to reach level 1000.

This formula would be a bit more "fair", as players wouldn't have to worry so much about screwing their rebirth level due to too many rebirths at low-mid levels, but this system might make the rebirth level progression even lower than the previous idea, so as said before, a more complex formula that includes more stuff and still makes it fair for everyone would be the best choice.

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Restrictions

The main issue with this not having any restrictions would be that a player could just power level to 100 and rebirth their character endlessly for the benefits, but it could be solved easily as well.

Cost

The rebirth cost could be something like 100.000 soul fragments, with the price decreasing according to level, with price/level. So it would be quite hard for someone at levels below level 100 to rebirth for the first time, and someone at level 100+ would have a similar price to soulfusing gear.

The cost would then increase with every rebirth, either simply +100.000 fragments every rebirth or change exponentialy, like 100k --> 200k --> 400k --> 800k and so on.

The prices might seem a lot, but divided by level they become reasonable, like 400k becoming only 1.000 soul fragments at level 400 for the player's fourth rebirth for example, in the case the price is just increased by 100k fragments every time.

It might become a monster when someone hits 100 rebirths for example, requiring 10M soul fragments upfront and still 20k at level 500, but at that point, such price should be reasonable to further improve the character even more, and there can be Hath perks to reduce the fragment cost when rebirthing too.

It also stops people from just rebirthing at low levels, giving players who level up more before rebirthing save up fragments for eventual future rebirths and possible gear upgrades soulfusing.

Bonus Limits

The number of soul fragments would not be an issue for quite a number of endgame players, so there would be a cap to the value of possible rebirth benefits in effect, being essentially a limiter to the roll bonuses for equipment, XP/prof gain rate and PABs.

An example could be:

XP Gain Rate bonus limit: +500%(or +5.000%)

Proficiency Gain Rate bonus limit +500%(or +5.000%)

PABs bonus limit: +500 to all PABs

Proficiency bonus limit: +500 to all proficiencies

Equip Roll bonus limit: +50% to all equip rolls on drop

This would make a player hit the bonus cap after rebirthing 10 times at level 500, or 210 times in the case the bonuses are optional with every rebirth and having to additionally choose between the 6 PABs and 12 proficiencies when rebirthing.

Time Restriction

Other than a cap, there could be a time limit as well, with a rebirth available only once per morth, every 3 months or something like the amount of months being dependant on amount of rebirths done, so someone who rebirthed 4 times needs 4 months to be able to rebirth again, while someone who did it 10 times needs 10 months and so on.

+Hath Perks

This was included after the initial post.

This system can make some new interesting and desireable perks as well.

Having perks that decrease the amount of soul fragments required to rebirth by /2, /3, /4 and such might be interesting.

Perks that reduce the time needed for a new rebirth are possible as well, reducing the time by /2, /3, /4 and so on.

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Results

Something to do past level 500

It gives the endgame players something interesting to do, which offers visible benefits to them, mainly the new improved gear they can get their hands on.

The included gear advancement system also doesn't require a new equipment tier added, doesn't require adding new difficulties and doesn't change the system much from what it currently is.

Low level equipment market refillment

This would fix one of the main problems caused by the addition of levels to dropped equipment, with new low level players having no easy access to low level equipment on the Bazaar due to the average player base level.

If lots of people rebirthed and remained at low-mid levels every rebirth, then the generated equipment would be benefitial for low level players who can have constant upgrades, mid level players that can either get good low or high level gear and max level players still able to soulfuse anything.

Viable sink for soul fragments

It might not be so much at first, but people eventually would feel the need to save them up for the next rebirths, and the frequent new updates for equipment would also increase the normal usage of them.

Gives the player the choice of how to rebirth

Someone who does 20 rebirths at level 250 will achive the same results as another who does 10 rebirths at level 500, but the main difference would be the IRL time used for leveling up or waiting for rebirth to refresh, and the total amount of soul fragments necessary, generating many new researches and discussions on the best method on rebirthing, which the community is all about.

Easy to update when necessary

After some time players might start hitting the cap for the rebirthing, but it isn't as troublesome to increase the cap for the benefits as it is to increase the max level to 1000 for example, having to think of adding new ability upgrades, arenas, difficulties, messing with monster power levels and such.

Makes other fighting styles interesting again

As certain fighting styles are currently more tied to level than anything else, rebirthing would also make the less used styles on higher levels(2H, Niten and even DW) more active again, also infuencing the market and making more drops meaningful.

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+Extra Suggestion

This is somewhat related to the rebirth system, but it can be taken as a separate suggestion by itself.

Make the number of soul fragments gotten from a Random Encounter the same as the number of monster in the round.

It's a bit weird killing 5 monsters and getting 5 fragments, but killing 10 and getting just 5.

Additionally, some Hath perks could be added to aid in getting soul fragments with REs.

Soul Hunter

Increases number of soul fragments that can be gotten during a day, with max level making all REs drop soul fragments.

Fated Encounter

Increases minimun number of monsters on each RE, up to the maximun 10 with final perk.

With this change and perks increasing the number of fragments that can be gotten every day, the fragments can be removed from the item shop and behave like the other two tokens that can't be traded with money.

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Final Notes

Be aware that everything in here are simply suggestions.

It doesn't matter to me if it's added in a single patch, used as a base for something else and divided between 3 patches and released over a 6 year spam or never added at all.

I simply wished to point out possible additions and improvements to the system, so 10b can take a look at this and use it if it's reasonable, use it as a base to brainstorm on another idea or just throw it away and focus on other things.

The important part is that it's presented to everyone, so other people besides 10b can make suggestions to improve this idea or even use this as a base to suggest their own version of a similar system.

While the numbers I showed are easy to see and might be reasonable, I just made these examples for the easy math, so instead of just pointing something is too much, too little or even completely unreasonable, try making a suggestion on a possible better math for the numbers to be more acceptable in the case you think they aren't.

Meaningful Edit

Forgot to add proficiency bonus as well, which might be the worst to grind back up.

Edit II

Made an ajustment to the suggested rebirth cost, increasing initial value from 10k fragments to 100k.

Reason is that a level 10 player could already rebirth for 1000 fragments, which can be gotten in less than a month, and a level 100 could rebirth for just 100 fragments, making the system a bit too cheap.

Increasing the price by 10 times fixes this, making a level 10 need 10k fragments, being a distant goal, where a level 100 would need 1000 fragments for their first rebirth, which is quite close to the average price of soulfusing gear above one's level.

Also made a change to the suggested benefits given when rebirthing, making it the player's choice what benefit to get with every rebirth instead of getting them all in one go, making more rebirths possible to get more benefits and being more reasonable from the game's point of view, where the conversion of one attribute(level) grants only one bonus(XP/prof gain rate bonus, extra PABs/prof or equip roll bonuses).

Also included the suggestion to include a rebirth level to show the player's progression including rebirths instead of only their current level, shadowing all their previous progress before rebirthing.

Edit III

Made a change to the suggestion on how the extra PABs work, and added the bonus proficiency option as well, working similarly to the bonus PABs.

Edit IV

Made some more adjustments and added the extra suggestion on how sould fragments could work better on Random Encounters, also making two perk suggestions related to them.

This post has been edited by Kinights: Apr 6 2017, 21:32

We need a hath lottery now.


This post has been edited by gc00018: Apr 13 2017, 05:27

Just to repeat others, an interface update, when? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Having a better looking inventory and equipment section with item icons would be nice for example (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Having a better looking inventory and equipment section with item icons would be nice for example (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That would be nice. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Suggestion:
Add the price of trophies in the Shrine and also the Tier so we have an idea of max level that item might be.

Suggestion:

soul fragments repair equipment

& then scrap the scraps to oblivion.

Suggestion:

soul fragments repair equipment

No. That is very expensive for people with low level items.

No. That is very expensive for people with low level items.

So then they won't use that approach. Some of us are sitting on thousands of them and they serve no purpose.

Soul Fragment 29203 (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

Just make the Soul Fragment be tradeable like other items so who have little can get them at low price from other players.

Do the same for Tokens so who don't want to create monster can sell Chaos Tokens to other players.

Fundamentally remove any restriction to the type of items that can be sold to other players.

Just make the Soul Fragment be tradeable like other items so who have little can get them at low price from other players.

Do the same for Tokens so who don't want to create monster can sell Chaos Tokens to other players.

Fundamentally remove any restriction to the type of items that can be sold to other players.

That won't be good for the system nor the market.

Making chaos tokens tradeable will allow people to create more monsters without spending time on the game, which are always generating passive materials, so it will go against the credit sink purpose of the game and will also affect the market for materials and bindings in the long term, where your average player will have 200 monsters bringing gifts every so often.

Blood tokens would be the worst, allowing people to do more Ring of Blood challenges without having ground("having grinded" sounded weird, so I googled this) for the tokens, getting more trophies that can grant good equipment and possible good equipment drops as well, which again, goes against the credit sink purpose of the game, where an average player is only able to do a RoB challenge every few days, or saves up their tokens for FSM for the noodle.

Suggestions are always good, but suggesting something that has been turned down over and over again without even giving it a reason won't work.

Another example other than my Rebirth System idea that could work with soul fragments is using them to reroll a soulfused equipment's attributes.

It could work simply by spending the base amount of fragments an equipment needs, like 500 for legendaries, then it would reroll all attributes, so if you get a garbage legendary but with a good prefix/suffix, you can gamble your fragments to try to make it decent.

RNG/gambling system that offers something players desire, there.

Soul Fragments then could be taken off the Item Shop, or not, to be even more of a credit sink.

This post has been edited by Kinights: Apr 16 2017, 19:56

Do the same for Tokens so who don't want to create monster can sell Chaos Tokens to other players.

please, not!

Uhm, i have not think about those consequences and understand why is better to keep those not sellable.

But how about making the game a little less random, at least on higher levels?

It is really frustrating to search for some equipment and not finding them so reverting to auctions and find the better drops end up in the hand of the same players with a lot of money.

I think it is the worst part of the game, trying to get to something and don't be able to do it unless you are incredibly lucky or have an insane amount of time for the game.

- So why not create some game mode that let you chose what you are hunting for like in the Shrine?
Not a specific weapon\armor\shield but at least a genre (1H, 2H, Staff ando so on) or even better a subgenre (Axe, Redwood, Buckler etc).
Obviously it will be a random drop but at least of something you are searching so when you get a Magnificent\Legendary you have a better chance to find something you need.

To make people not abuse this (all searching for Cloth\Staffs to get a jackpot) make the only thing available the one with the higher proficiency and only after level 300-400).

- Also, there is a reforge to remove reset IW potencies, and an upgrade system, why not a "Forge" system to increase the overall quality of a weapon?

So you get a perfect Superior and with the right things you can make it Exquisite with the equivalent status bonus (a perfect superior will become a perfect exquisite).

Make it so Crude, Fair and Average can get up to Magnificent, Superior, Exquisite and Magnificent to Legendary and Legendary to Peerless (but some harder things to do to not make Peerless to common).

Any weapon upgraded this way cannot be sold (like soulfused weapons).

- So why not create some game mode that let you chose what you are hunting for like in the Shrine?
Not a specific weapon\armor\shield but at least a genre (1H, 2H, Staff ando so on) or even better a subgenre (Axe, Redwood, Buckler etc).
Obviously it will be a random drop but at least of something you are searching so when you get a Magnificent\Legendary you have a better chance to find something you need.

Kiind of ruins the whole thing, does it not? It will ruin the value of current items. Those who paid millions for their staffs will find them more in abundance as more people will be trying to get them.

FYI. Your shop link does not work.

Uhm, i have not think about those consequences and understand why is better to keep those not sellable.

But how about making the game a little less random, at least on higher levels?

It is really frustrating to search for some equipment and not finding them so reverting to auctions and find the better drops end up in the hand of the same players with a lot of money.

I think it is the worst part of the game, trying to get to something and don't be able to do it unless you are incredibly lucky or have an insane amount of time for the game.

Any game will want it's players to spend time on it, and if they aren't able to, they can use other methods(H@H, bounties, donating, selling stars, etc) to progress on it faster.

If everyone could make a lot of progress in just some hours of playing and have a full Peerless set in less than a month, no one would be playing, as there'd be nothing else to do other than wait for new content, which is already a reality for some end game players at level cap.

- So why not create some game mode that let you chose what you are hunting for like in the Shrine?
Not a specific weapon\armor\shield but at least a genre (1H, 2H, Staff ando so on) or even better a subgenre (Axe, Redwood, Buckler etc).
Obviously it will be a random drop but at least of something you are searching so when you get a Magnificent\Legendary you have a better chance to find something you need.

To make people not abuse this (all searching for Cloth\Staffs to get a jackpot) make the only thing available the one with the higher proficiency and only after level 300-400).

Getting rid of the RNG for the loot system and making specific gear easier to farm will just make players get bored of the game faster.

If you are aiming for a specific equipment, there's already the shrine, which involves RNG and needs trophies, which are hard to get, but you can still buy them from others if you don't have time to play, which should be quite fair already.

Having a battle mode that allows you to farm for a "jackpot" equipment would be the same as having a slot machine that has only a single wheel instead of three and doesn't cost anything to play.

- Also, there is a reforge to remove reset IW potencies, and an upgrade system, why not a "Forge" system to increase the overall quality of a weapon?

So you get a perfect Superior and with the right things you can make it Exquisite with the equivalent status bonus (a perfect superior will become a perfect exquisite).

Make it so Crude, Fair and Average can get up to Magnificent, Superior, Exquisite and Magnificent to Legendary and Legendary to Peerless (but some harder things to do to not make Peerless to common).

Any weapon upgraded this way cannot be sold (like soulfused weapons).

This idea isn't bad, but I don't see it ever being implemented.

Forging already can make a superior item reach an exquisite item's values, but using your materials to forge your exquisite or magnificent items will always be a better option.

Making it so every superior item can be a potential close to Lmax legendary would just ruin the whole point of having different equipment qualities.

No. That is very expensive for people with low level items.

Umm...why not both?

scraps for the poor, souls for the soulful.

pretty sure someone may exploit it to boost its win count, if not coded properly. and even if done as it should be and without accounting wins earned (earnt?) this way, players are so overkill towards single mobs that datas will be useless imo.

Fight them in a special arena without them getting any win points or you getting exp. Just to test them out.

Increase the amount you get from training. It is very expensive for such a small variation.