[X] My Assistant

You have only "exclusively" proved Random Encounter's increase in drop. You have yet to provide any drop data for *every other* kind of drops, such as arena, grindfest, and IW, which make up 99% of gameplay. Anecdotal accounts (that you mistakenly called "whining") keep popping up because you haven't been able to sastifactorily disprove their claims, that drop quality is nerfed in general and iit's actually harder to find upgrades. You have only disproved only 1% (Random Encounter). What about the rest 99%?

Learn to read. I said provABLY. No, I'm not going to take several hours to collate and present every single combination of game type and difficulty. The ones I checked were all equal or better. Compare; pre- and post-patch PFUDOR.

CODE

Arena, pre-patch:
+-------------+----------+-------+
| q           | count(*) | pct   |
+-------------+----------+-------+
| Peerless    |        9 |  0.00 |
| Legendary   |     3616 |  0.28 |
| Magnificent |    25932 |  2.03 |
| Exquisite   |   248902 | 19.51 |
| Superior    |   795771 | 62.36 |
| Average     |   197476 | 15.48 |
| Fair        |     4245 |  0.33 |
| Crude       |      128 |  0.01 |
+-------------+----------+-------+

Arena, post-patch:
+-------------+----------+-------+
| q           | count(*) | pct   |
+-------------+----------+-------+
| Peerless    |        3 |  0.00 |
| Legendary   |      453 |  0.37 |
| Magnificent |     3029 |  2.47 |
| Exquisite   |    30373 | 24.72 |
| Superior    |    89016 | 72.45 |
+-------------+----------+-------+

Grindfest, pre-patch:
+-------------+----------+-------+
| q           | count(*) | pct   |
+-------------+----------+-------+
| Peerless    |        6 |  0.00 |
| Legendary   |      794 |  0.16 |
| Magnificent |     8381 |  1.73 |
| Exquisite   |    98222 | 20.25 |
| Superior    |   312393 | 64.39 |
| Average     |    64594 | 13.31 |
| Fair        |      738 |  0.15 |
| Crude       |        5 |  0.00 |
+-------------+----------+-------+

Grindfest, post-patch:
+-------------+----------+-------+
| q           | count(*) | pct   |
+-------------+----------+-------+
| Legendary   |       75 |  0.17 |
| Magnificent |      986 |  2.18 |
| Exquisite   |    11038 | 24.45 |
| Superior    |    33054 | 73.21 |
+-------------+----------+-------+

Design-wise, that's just as intended. The additional droppage was added to the non-grindy bits, and the grindy bits are as good or better. And the drop rates only tell half the picture, as additionally, high-quality equipment are much more likely to be rare tier, and they are much more likely to not be lacking something essential.

Your claim here has also turned out to be wrong too
I've already proven that averages are still dropping in pfudor arena

Learn to read. Those are clear bonuses, not normal PFUDOR drops.

And there's anecdotes that Averages are dropping in PFUDOR Random Encounter, Item World and Grindfest

If you want to keep arguing based on anecdotes instead of reality, then get the fuck out of here.

Tenboro always reminds me why i should never ever make my garage project of a browser based RPG minigame available to the wide public: whining

They're not whines; they're out-of-tune songs of praise!

Can we has hot keys for the monster lab? Left and right to switch monsters, and FD for feed max and happy drugs.

Can we has hot keys for the monster lab? Left and right to switch monsters, and FD for feed max and happy drugs.

Monster lab babysitter can feed (and morale) like that. I'm sure it would be super easy to bind left and right to the Prev/Next buttons as well. (though since all monsters can be fed/checked automatically at once, I'm not sure who would use it)

Learn to read. I said provABLY. No, I'm not going to take several hours to collate and present every single combination of game type and difficulty. The ones I checked were all equal or better. Compare; pre- and post-patch PFUDOR.

CODE

Arena, pre-patch:
+-------------+----------+-------+
| q           | count(*) | pct   |
+-------------+----------+-------+
| Peerless    |        9 |  0.00 |
| Legendary   |     3616 |  0.28 |
| Magnificent |    25932 |  2.03 |
| Exquisite   |   248902 | 19.51 |
| Superior    |   795771 | 62.36 |
| Average     |   197476 | 15.48 |
| Fair        |     4245 |  0.33 |
| Crude       |      128 |  0.01 |
+-------------+----------+-------+

Arena, post-patch:
+-------------+----------+-------+
| q           | count(*) | pct   |
+-------------+----------+-------+
| Peerless    |        3 |  0.00 |
| Legendary   |      453 |  0.37 |
| Magnificent |     3029 |  2.47 |
| Exquisite   |    30373 | 24.72 |
| Superior    |    89016 | 72.45 |
+-------------+----------+-------+

Grindfest, pre-patch:
+-------------+----------+-------+
| q           | count(*) | pct   |
+-------------+----------+-------+
| Peerless    |        6 |  0.00 |
| Legendary   |      794 |  0.16 |
| Magnificent |     8381 |  1.73 |
| Exquisite   |    98222 | 20.25 |
| Superior    |   312393 | 64.39 |
| Average     |    64594 | 13.31 |
| Fair        |      738 |  0.15 |
| Crude       |        5 |  0.00 |
+-------------+----------+-------+

Grindfest, post-patch:
+-------------+----------+-------+
| q           | count(*) | pct   |
+-------------+----------+-------+
| Legendary   |       75 |  0.17 |
| Magnificent |      986 |  2.18 |
| Exquisite   |    11038 | 24.45 |
| Superior    |    33054 | 73.21 |
+-------------+----------+-------+

Design-wise, that's just as intended. The additional droppage was added to the non-grindy bits, and the grindy bits are as good or better. And the drop rates only tell half the picture, as additionally, high-quality equipment are much more likely to be rare tier, and they are much more likely to not be lacking something essential.

Thanks for responding and providing numbers. I suppose I could figure out how to survive through this patch

Learn to read. Those are clear bonuses, not normal PFUDOR drops.

So I take it clear bonuses are not considered drops, and thus are not affected by any drop trainings and difficulty?

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Jun 12 2015, 16:14

Tenboro always reminds me why i should never ever make my garage project of a browser based RPG minigame available to the wide public: whining

If you do anything at all, other people will dump on you. It's an important life lesson.

I'm sorry that I can't read your mind or your database, but when don't provide proof in your "provably" post, naturally I'd ask for one. Still though, thanks for responding and providing numbers. I suppose I could figure out how to survive through this patch
So I take it clear bonuses are not considered drops, and thus are not affected by any drop trainings and difficulty?

That's an interesting question I would like to know the answer to.

Also the shorter arenas seem to have a fixed quality (or maximum quality), so it would be interesting to see if they do have a fixed maximum quality, which ones that have the fixed quality are and which ones don't and which have a bonus roll applied to them and which ones benefit from selected difficulty.

I cannot play on PFUDOR. PFUDOR arenas take hours of real-world time. All it takes is one round where multiple Celestial/Demon special attacks hit at once and I've lost. Losing instantly after a large time investment is intensely disheartening. This is the consistent result of my frustrated attempts to play Power Flux, Killzone, or Endgame on IWBTH/PFUDOR.

Between this and the damage that equipment suffers upon death, I feel as though this patch has components that passively discourage pushing into higher difficulties. I think the easiest way to fix this is to pick up better equipment, but the patch cut the teeth out of the equipment market (by reducing the amount that gear trickles down). I think, to make players more self-sufficient, it would be helpful to give players a bonus to drop quality based on their number of recent deaths, divided by their level.

The choice of deaths divided by level is meant to encourages players to die in order to improve their future drops and cause existing equipment to decay, thus making replacement more attractive. It is also meant to reflect realities - namely that the play styles and securities in playing change dramatically as level increases, with each ability improving in all ways (except regen, which gets more expensive to cast as you put more points into it), making the players into juggernauts of unfathomable power.

Decay should likely happen at either the same rate at which stamina recovers, or the same rate at which the drop malus from playing rounds at too low of a difficulty decays. Both of these rates are well-controlled and easily accessible for Tenboro, and could be implemented with a simple copy-paste.

Between this and the damage that equipment suffers upon death, I feel as though this patch has components that passively discourage pushing into higher difficulties. I think the easiest way to fix this is to pick up better equipment, but the patch cut the teeth out of the equipment market (by reducing the amount that gear trickles down). I think, to make players more self-sufficient, it would be helpful to give players a bonus to drop quality based on their number of recent deaths, divided by their level.

The choice of deaths divided by level is meant to encourages players to die in order to improve their future drops and cause existing equipment to decay, thus making replacement more attractive. It is also meant to reflect realities - namely that the play styles and securities in playing change dramatically as level increases, with each ability improving in all ways (except regen, which gets more expensive to cast as you put more points into it), making the players into juggernauts of unfathomable power.

Decay should likely happen at either the same rate at which stamina recovers, or the same rate at which the drop malus from playing rounds at too low of a difficulty decays. Both of these rates are well-controlled and easily accessible for Tenboro, and could be implemented with a simple copy-paste.

Given infinite item usage, and 0 action time required to use them, I don't think most med-high level players should ever die now, unless they do something dumb like forget to cast Spark or don't use spirit potion quickly enough (or are playing on a difficulty level way higher than their equipment is suited for).

...This patch was a nerf to monster lab, wasn't it... now that people will be much more careful about not dying...

...This patch was a nerf to monster lab, wasn't it... now that people will be much more careful about not dying...

not really, now that people are paranoid about dying, they will prematurely flee instead of trying to finish the run. Monster will probably receive less kill, but more win, so they should bring more gifts overall.

Learn to read. I said provABLY. No, I'm not going to take several hours to collate and present every single combination of game type and difficulty. The ones I checked were all equal or better. Compare; pre- and post-patch PFUDOR.

| Legendary | 453 | 0.37 |
| Legendary | 75 | 0.17 |

Well that makes more sense, explains why I wasn't seeing the 1.2% legendary rate.

Can a new feature be added to IW so that it also repairs equipment, with the amount repaired being a function of the difficulty and the number of rounds.

I'm sorry that I can't read your mind or your database, but when don't provide proof in your "provably" post, naturally I'd ask for one. Still though, thanks for responding and providing numbers.....

Let me translate what Tenboro means " You have to collect data to prove drop is poor, I don't have anytime for it " .

Well, Data is nothing, I can collect them in this patch, but I have no idea how to find pre-patch data.

Given infinite item usage, and 0 action time required to use them, I don't think most med-high level players should ever die now, unless they do something dumb like forget to cast Spark or don't use spirit potion quickly enough (or are playing on a difficulty level way higher than their equipment is suited for).

I think I should admit, the main impetus for my request was so that any time someone complains about not getting good enough items, the best thing Tenboro could tell them would be to fuck off and die.

Let me translate what Tenboro means " You have to collect data to prove drop is poor, I don't have anytime for it " .

Well, Data is nothing, I can collect them in this patch, but I have no idea how to find pre-patch data.

Don't let my pessimism deter your effort. But I'd advise you to confirm the definition of the term "drop"


This post has been edited by holy_demon: Jun 12 2015, 16:16

The data will be dismissed as unlucky, fake, not big enough sample size, or clear bonus not being counted as drop. Also, remember the case with the 3 emax-mmax ADB leg rapier slaughter?

But well I'm not gonna stop you from your effort.

If you want to argue sample size, the minimum standard number to argue data for rare events is 5. That is, you should get enough data that you expect to get 5 successes.

This post has been edited by m118w11: Jun 12 2015, 15:37

So I take it clear bonuses are not considered drops, and thus are not affected by any drop trainings and difficulty?

Patch notes say arena clears are "now based on a trophy-equivalent tier", so bonuses from low-level arenas are probably equivalent to shrining a boss trophy and aren't affected by anything, so that's why there are tons of averages even on pfudor. Well, they also say that bonuses should be much better, which doesn't seem to be the case, but Tenboro already said that it will be fixed and just takes some effort.

If you want to argue sample size, the minimum standard number to argue data for rare events is 5. That is, you should get enough data that you expect to get 5 successes.

So, does this count? 5 power of slaughter with adb below mmax

http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=0ec1fd01ec
http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=2c6ac7db88
http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=3d37782909
http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=b6d480ed67
http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=eebdd215e2

If not, how many more sample do we need to not get written off as small sample size?

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Jun 12 2015, 16:17

They're not whines; they're out-of-tune songs of praise!

All hail Tenboro-sama, who makes the flowers grow
Who tends for us the magic smoke that makes the servers go
His patches shower us with loot, and increase customer demand
A pegasus for all seasons; our Lord and guiding hand

This post has been edited by mechafujoshi: Jun 12 2015, 19:31

So, does this count? 5 power of slaughter with adb below mmax

http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=0ec1fd01ec
http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=2c6ac7db88
http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=3d37782909
http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=b6d480ed67
http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=eebdd215e2

Assuming these are the only .82 leg slaughters, if it is expected that 100% of power slaughters should be above Mmax, then yes. You can be >95% sure that this is not the case and should get 10bro to look into it.