[X] My Assistant

I suggested it because with something needs to be done to attack speed to make it more offensive then it is in its current state.

As for why I suggested it now? It's been burning in the back of my mind for awhile, I felt like yesterday was a good day to let it go.

I don't agree with replacing attack speed with double strike. Attack speed may not make battles go faster in real time, but it does allow for a higher player damage to monster damage ratio, which makes it a legitimately offensive stat.

Besides, agility is used to increase evade. It's consistent for evade to increase attack speed which has defensive benefits. In my opinion, it would make sense for dexterity to cause a double strike, but not agility.

Perfetly fitting for Chips suggestion I suggest the glorious return of Sword Chucks.
This time they come with high Attack Power, speed, crit Chance and Crit damage but also come with negative PMI and MMI making it a full force offensive weapon.

dc_again: No, it makes you spend less mana per turn and take less damage per turn, thus being defensive. Skillchip's suggestion would decrease the effectiveness of attack speed from a PoV(as it would no longer give mana bonus) and fine control(there is a reason why AJAXing from Australia could end up...poorly) for making battles go faster - something higher level people would very much like.

However, offense usually beats defense: If you gain 20% DPT, you will kill monsters 20% faster - who will then inflict 20% less damage per round, too. So in a way, the mana conversation bonus remains.

But the fine control loss for mages, who rely on precise, ever-shifting targeting of imperil and spells would be annoying. Could very well become easier to overwhelm light most of all, without the chance to cure.

If ASB become double attack chance, I will back to 2H light again. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As long as the double strike and cast take no action time it should cause much issue of being overwhelmed

You'd certainly get overwhelmed if you were on the loop of "attack, attack, cure". ASB is consistent, double attack increases the outliers.

Not to mention like I said that imperiling same target twice is fairly useless.

To clarify, I probably would benefit from the change as HV is in a lot of ways about killing faster at any cost, but overall it'd lead a significant fraction of the player population becoming weaker as they'd be forced to drop difficulty.

This post has been edited by Lement: Feb 18 2014, 18:53

it'd lead a significant fraction of the player population becoming weaker as they'd be forced to drop difficulty.

This is exactly my concern.

p.s. This idea ASB of only being defensive and not being offensive is a bit ridiculous. If the player damage to monster damage ratio increases, framing it as being purely defensive doesn't make sense. If anything, offense and defense go hand in hand (which is why offense is often said to be the best defense).

This post has been edited by dc_again: Feb 18 2014, 19:24

Not to mention like I said that imperiling same target twice is fairly useless.

Then double hit will cast Imperil on the next non imperiled foe.

Then double hit will cast Imperil on the next non imperiled foe.

Make double hit/magic only work on offensive spell and normal attack, problem solved (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .
If the first hit already kill the target, the second hit will beat the dead horse. (We like to beat the dead horse I suppose.)

If everything can be double, then I would like to try double OFC.

This post has been edited by Colman: Feb 19 2014, 15:58

Problem with double OFC is that it tends to oneshot rounds, unless you before trigger Spirit Stance twice (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

@dc_again: Admittedly, there is a loss of DPS when with lower defense you have to cure more often, but that's all that attack speed offensively does at the moment, and melee players can compensate for that by wearing more defensive armor.

On that note:

Suggestion:
Boost Cotton of Protection base rolls from 11-24 to 23-51 and Evade rolls of Cotton in general from 4-12 to 11-21. Idea is to make Cotton of Protection bit more amenable option for lower levels to whack stuff (Still lacks the PAB bonuses) in and perhaps better option to get more defense for mages.

@Ichy: I propose an alternative: Change only Attack Speed, not Cast Speed.
Because having to code that for all Deprecating spells goes on to the list of "too complicated for just a minor change".

This post has been edited by Lement: Feb 18 2014, 20:56

@Ichy: I propose an alternative: Change only Attack Speed, not Cast Speed.
Because having to code that for all Deprecating spells goes on to the list of "too complicated for just a minor change".

But then mage will whine again (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
How about jut attack speed? or it will auto use that basic magic attack so mage can get free ET every now and then?

@dc_again: Admittedly, there is a loss of DPS when with lower defense you have to cure more often, but that's all that attack speed offensively does at the moment, and melee players can compensate for that by wearing more defensive armor.

Not necessarily. More defensive armor tends to decrease your attack speed due to higher burden. Again, to the point of attack speed being offensive rather than being strictly defensive: higher attack speed helps with killing (or stunning) enemies before they get to attack ("offense is the best defense"), but a higher defense does not.

When compared to a random double strike, attack speed is more consistent/predictable. You eventually get an extra attack (in battles that last long enough, which is more likely on higher difficulties), and you actually get to choose the target (or heal). For higher level players a double strike makes things less tedious, but for lower level players it just makes it less flexible (because you can't choose how to use your extra action) and more difficult (because enemies are more likely to attack all at once before the player can heal).

This post has been edited by dc_again: Feb 18 2014, 21:21

Lowbobs are supposed to suffer (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Most discussed suggestion in a lont time.

also, to increase suffering. Make skills cool downs be based on time units instead of real turns

@dc_again: Not relevant in regards to DPS, which is the reason why slaughter bindings are so much more expensive than any defensive bindings.

Admittedly, needing extra cures may mean the RPS increase isn't as big, but for melee* player to be at disadvantage from the change, they'd need to be forced to cure at least every 100/attack speed% additional turns̉̉̉̉**.So additional cure every 4 turns for 25% (~Shadow Veil bonus) attack speed.

Less tedium is pretty darn important when even the 'fast' (pre-SG) arenas can easily take a hour to complete on the highest difficulty.

You're correct in that bonus attack will at best equal attack speed in damage taken and received per turn (assuming you'd have gotten extra turn and attacked then anyway) and lose in a lot of situations. And good point about stun, too - indeed, for a mace user double attack will only match attack speed in the case of occassional parry, is significantly better than equivalent amount of evade %, and lose in pretty much all other cases.

*PA/Bleed player. Boundary is lower for mace user.

**ignoring cure mana costs - the boundary is lower for GF due loss of crystal multiplier, but IW would be fine as long as minimum safe difficulty isn't decreased below Hell.

@Ichy: I'd think mage would whine more if they'd get slaughtered harder in exchange for casting imperil twice on same target. Yes, can be adjusted, but much more difficult to implement than AS=>DA.

This post has been edited by Lement: Feb 18 2014, 23:41

[Suggestion] Ban skillchip.
Alternatively, promote skillchip to ponymaster.

gives a warning if you didnt set up your skills or items for the current set your using before a match

[Suggestion] Ban skillchip.
Alternatively, promote skillchip to ponymaster.

Oh goodie I've done enough to deserve such praise. Also I'm surprised Tenboro hasn't chimed in with a resounding NO.

Suggestion: We need a new shard, how about an Empowering Shard, which acts like X levels of forging to every stat on the gear. This would benefit unforged gear more then forged gear due to the logarithmic curves involved in the forging formulas, thus it will benefit lower level players who typically have unforged or barely forged gear more then higher level players who are seen as having heavily forged gear.

This post has been edited by skillchip: Feb 19 2014, 02:14

For magic this would be a double cast, a free second cast.

So attack speed it will be a 2nd physical crit and channelling chance?

Too OP.

Also, since I made a script that can send multiple actions before having to redraw page, trust me there's some situation when you don't want to just blindly repeating the same actions, especially if you're running PFUDOR. I once got KOed by 3 monsters just for skipping one redraw, they apparently all decide to cast spirit attack. which all happen to land T.T

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Feb 19 2014, 03:18