[X] My Assistant

I personally doesn't dislike FAKKU and I think it's a good thing that some of the legal translator sites want to use e-Hentai as their tool for promoting their things. Even if it small scales but I think it can help manga-ka and doujin-ka to make a living and can continue to provide us more hentai stuff.

I'm not sure what makes FAKKU decide to leave from e-Hentai. If it's about comments and ratings, why not ignore it? Or if you want, I'm sure TenB can disable comments and ratings of your galleries. There are a lot of people who hate FAKKU but I'm sure that more people who come here for hentai don't care about it. Well, the stone is already thrown and I just want to give my five cents here.

I hope your previous uploaded galleries aren't taken down because some reasons and one of it is this:

actions speak louder than words, if you let these galleries stay, people will eventually realize that fakku is not here to bring the third impact upon us, and (hopefully) come to accept that you guys are just using this site as an advertising platform.

Or if you want, I'm sure TenB can disable comments and ratings of your galleries

I can say with absolute certainty that even if Tenboro would be willing to do something like that, it would only make things far, far worse.

My understanding of how the rules are written, prohibiting Fakku or anybody that isn't just shitposting from uploading (especially content they have the rights to) would be a violation. I agree with this, and Fakku should be allowed to do as they please with their content- including posting it here if they want.
Comments are entirely meaningless and arbritrary, but taking that away will overclock the rumor mill, and constitute special treatment.
The karma system here had positive and negative sides back in the day. As mad as people got about karma, they got even more mad when the negative side was removed.

Just for the record, you did at least get one sale because of your posts and the banners. From me.

E-Hentai has honored DMCA claims for as long as I can remember

Not out of goodwill and the process is long but they do follow it even for small artist. Thought I'd rather have option to delete my own gallery/orphan it like AO3 or this https://e-hentai.org/g/320776/67831cac28/.

I was just over in the 4chan, in the hentai forum threads. I went to the one that always talks about e-hentai, and boy I was not disappointed. They are spewing the same hatred for Fakku that everyone has been for the last few years. And it seems that they are even blaming them for the take down requests still of all wani stuff. Amazing....

I think E-hentai has done very good for itself, by maintaining a good standing with the sites patrons as well as taking in the requests of the artists and publishers that do not want their stuff posted here. Because if that were not the case then e-hentai would still not be here.

Why are there fakku banners above fansubs?


gallery in question is from the poster doggerhotter title [Fatalpulse (Asanagi)] BOTTOM of the SKY content is fyorded

This post has been edited by Gon_O: Jul 25 2020, 03:56

Why are there fakku banners above fansubs?

Very first quote of the very first post in this thread. Get readin'.

oh, I thought this was only for stuff that they upload themselves and not stuff that has absolute no connection to them since it was translated by different people.
thank you for the fast answer though.

This post has been edited by Gon_O: Jul 25 2020, 04:20

oh, I thought this was only for stuff that they upload themselves and not stuff that has absolute no connection to them since it was translated by different people.
thank you for the fast answer though.

It has a connection to them, they hold the license and could easily DMCA it even if it's a fan translation. Instead they decide to advertise their version on it. I know which one I prefer.

I somewhat agree, but I think that's an oversimplification. You could argue the fan translation on its own is fine, but that can only exist if you have access to the RAW, which means piracy of the Japanese release. That's something the Japanese artists and publishers obviously don't appreciate.

Simply put, virtually all English speakers outside of Japan will not buy the Japanese raws if they cannot read/access them. There aren't many meaningful lost sales from the English market because they either don't even know about the work or wouldn't be able to enjoy it properly if they did. But there is a small increase in sales from people who read fan translations and go on to buy the Japanese raws.

If an officially licensed English version exists, then of course piracy is mostly harmful. But, if there isn't one, then fan translations can mostly benefit the creators because they increase their audience to include some portion of the English speaking market. It is rarely the case that an English fan translation is uploaded to the internet without there already having been access to the Japanese raws, since that is how a lot of translators find the raws in the first place. The existing Japanese market would just read the pirated Japanese raws and not the English version.

On the works I have translated and uploaded, I always leave links for where to purchase it legitimately. I believe this is the honest way to send appreciation to the creators, even if very few people end up doing so. However, those creators have sent me a lot of hate and anger because they believe I am only harming their market and stealing sales, even though they do not even have English copies of their work. Official translation groups like Fakku and Irodori are constantly telling Japanese creators this hurtful story about us, while also touting how friendly they are with artists they are fans of.

The only thing I want is for uncensored Japanese works (gender bender, specifically) to be made available to the English audience. I'm happy when artists I like sign on to reputable English publishers like Fakku because your mission is the same as mine. But I beg of you to please make clear to them the distinction between piracy of officially licensed works (whether EN or JP) vs. piracy of fan translations in inaccessible markets, instead of grouping us all together, since we are not the same, while we get badmouthed together.

Thanks for reading.

A lot of the vitriol is "false anger" type of trolling.

Which makes it really hard to combat when Facts and Logic proves to be ineffective. I fear that a lot of the vocal outrage comes from people who are willfully ignorant, parroting things they know aren't true to push their narrative. Then there's a much larger crowd of lurkers who are truly ignorant, and accept those lies without questioning anything. I've been an on-and-off lurker on 4chan since 2006, so I know how their threads typically go down. Whenever someone challenge their assessments, they respond by slinging insults, only to repeat the same falsehoods in the next thread. It's an echo chamber of the worst kind, and I've come to accept that certain places on the internet are lost causes.

As long as it's well sourced it becomes something that speaks for itself.

As mentioned above, I'm not so sure given the zealotry of these people. The most vocal detractors simply won't listen, and so much of the fearmongering is based on things that will happen. You saw it here as well with all the conspiracies about us taking over the site, and how this is a harbinger of terrible things to come. There's no way of proving that something won't happen in the future, and there's no shortage of new doomsday scenarios.

Is that [FAKKU only publish vanilla] an actual misconception people have?

It's actually one of the more common ones if you exclude the grand conspiracies. People say they don't want to support FAKKU because we only have vanilla, which would be a fair point if it was true. It's also a really hard point to argue, because there's no one definition of the term. We basically define it as romantic stories with nothing too kinky, and that applies to around 40% of our content. It's common, but by its nature it applies to "normal stuff," so you'd expect that. Either way, it's nowhere near the absurd claims of "over 90%" or "it's all vanilla" that you'll see online. Again, it's either willful or genuine ignorance.

See, this is a lot more of the type of thing I think FAKKU should communicate to people, or at least the community here for obvious reasons.

It does fall into that gray area though where it's really hard for a legit publisher to condone piracy in any way. There are prominent voices within the industry (anime/manga as a whole) who publicly say they'd never hire a former scanlator, and it obviously puts you in an awkward situation with the Japanese publishers and artists if you're "friends with the enemy." FAKKU is often accused of being hypocrites, for starting out as a scanlation site and now hating scanlation. Once again, this isn't true, and we're very aware of our roots. It's simply a touchy subject, and if we have to choose, it's better the pirates hate us than the creators in Japan. Hopefully we can somehow find a happy medium eventually.

Also if this is just gonna be about FAKKU in general you guys need get a payment processor that accepts cryptocurrency.

This is very off topic, but I'll be brief. The trend with crypto companies is to start out small and welcoming to everyone. Once they grow big enough, banks and CC companies get involved, and now it's in their best interest to kick out the questionable content. Some people are gonna love hearing this from me, but once enough money is on the table, it's unfortunately easy to abandon your old convictions.

Also why is it that no other site can have a tag system as robust as E-Hentai? Even just adding male and female namespaces would improve your UX massively, but I realize that's not something that's trivial to implement.

We are expanding our IT staff, so maybe some time in the future.

Just for the record, you did at least get one sale because of your posts and the banners. From me.

Cheers, I appreciate it.

Simply put, virtually all English speakers outside of Japan will not buy the Japanese raws if they cannot read/access them.

For hentai it rarely matters to me if its translated or not. Probably the greatest challenge, and what matters the most, is just getting me to see something, so that I know it exists and can decide if I want to buy it or not.

Which makes it really hard to combat when Facts and Logic proves to be ineffective. I fear that a lot of the vocal outrage comes from people who are willfully ignorant, parroting things they know aren't true to push their narrative.

This is a problem that most or all professionals face. I think you need to learn to ignore it, almost as a basic rule of professionalism. Businesses do the same crappy things and are generally in a greater position of power; it's a two-way street so they aren't victims here.

For this same reason, I think the current trend for professionals to communicate directly with their fanbase via twitter etc is ill-advised. In the old days, businesses would try as much as possible to keep all their thoughts and political stances to themselves.

Eh, I thought you'd have thicker skin than this. Seeing you still provide free samples despite the overreacting cries from multiple people who are most likely just going with the flow would have been a decent way to earn back at least some trust, but turning back and removing all the galleries you uploaded (despite that intentionally not being possible) just ruined everything again.
All I can say is that I'm massively disappointed.

Seems like the same question, but if I'm to elaborate on the topic as a whole: if piracy generated any considerable amount of money, I think more artists would embrace it, so I'm willing to believe their words here.

Not that it is going to change anyone's mind, but... are you familiar with the concept of a 'starving artist'? Artists are good at what they do (art) and not necessarily at selling or marketing their work. They may create great works - and fail to understand how to profit from this. There's a reason many world-famous artists like Van Gogh were literally starving: they were art geniuses and couldn't figure out how to make a good leaving on capitalist society.

Anyway, I would not take the artist's word on this. Many of them don't understand concepts like viral marketing or the difference between copying or stealing, or concepts like [en.wikipedia.org] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_sales . You can read or watch this [www.techhive.com] https://www.techhive.com/article/251930/the...acy_claims.html or something else, if you want an artists opinion: a column by a sci-fi American writer on why he supports giving away a lot of his works for free: [ericflint.net] https://ericflint.net/information/salvos-ag...st-big-brother/

Anyway, as far as I know, anime, manga and doujins industries are steadily growing (I am saying this on the basis of official sales estimates for the industry, and comiket attendance rates and such). So clearly, rampant piracy (like what you see on this site) is not hurting the artists, including hentai makers. Just like Hollywood is doing well (not just serving but reporting record profits) despite torrents still proving a free alternative to anyone. If sharing doujins or h-manga would hurt the artists, given the scope of what is already out there and free, they should be out of business, just like Hollywood. On the contrary, they are doing better and better every year. Now, does it happen despite piracy or because it helps? Given that none of us here, including your business, would exist without the piracy, none of us here would knew about or spend $$$ on it (I spend four digits easily on books for scanning etc.) I think the answer is pretty obvious. Piracy rocketed hentai to were it is (internationally, at least) and is still helping the artists (I probably wouldn't spend a dime on hentai content if I couldn't find it here first to see what is worth commissioning/supporting as I wouldn't have known this stuff even exists...).

----

I am sorry that you got so much flames, but you earned it - by issuing DMCAs and such, which was clearly betraying your own roots. It was actually cool you tried to do something good (share stuff here), but it seems you couldn't take the heat. If you endured it and kept on it for few more months, I think you'd see an increase in sales, as more and more people would follow the links and the community opinion of you would start changing. It is a shame your skin wasn't thick enough to wait longer, both for the community and for your own business. You had a good idea that could really be lucrative to everyone involved. Maybe it is not too late to try again rather than take your toys away after a few flamers and low-rated galleries? I know it is hard to say you were wrong, but you made a good step in that direction with your first shares here. I urge you to continue, for your own enlightened self-interest (i.e more profits)(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Seriously, if we can figure out how to channel more profits to the artits, I don't think most people will mind if you get a cut. Greater good and whatever.

This post has been edited by Red_Piotrus: Jul 25 2020, 12:22

For the effect of piracy [cdn.netzpolitik.org] https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/...ement_study.pdf

The proportion of people who illegally downloaded or streamed creative content while they are willing to pay the market price, is the lowest for films and TV-series, and the highest for books

[...]

The average willingness to pay for books is € 15.80. 19% of the people is not willing to pay more than the lowest price range, and 24% is willing to pay more than the highest price range for books. People seem willing to download or stream books legally but do so illegally because the book is not available online on legal sites, or to save out the money they would in fact have been willing to spend.

[...]

Overall, the price is one factor that helps explain the piracy of films and TV-series, but the price does not help explain the piracy of music, e-books and games.

I came here to post some namespacing shit and I see some FAKKU-related post dragging attention. Cool beans.

Warning: Goalposts being moved. If you expected a banner-related post, move on to the tl;dr or please don't waste your time and just don't read this.

Oh, we already know how to tell artists to stay away from greedy publishers. Don't worry, Red. And no company will stop us, no matter how big, rich or "threatening" they are.

I've been doing my part and telling a few thousand activists, contacting artists to ignore any and all company approaching them to preserve their entire rights as doujinka, and that they could get uncensored translations for free elsewhere. I've also been encouraging direct support, which literally means 100% profit directly to them.

Will people lose their job in said companies? That's not my problem. Stealing someone's rights under the pretense of international advertising and making oneself look like a big anti-piracy activist when piracy websites actually offer free advertising is no joke. I don't even want to get started about translation scams and the various takeovers over more than a decade. A few decades, even.

As the OP stated about shitposts, PMs will be ignored and redirected to /dev/null. This is not open for debate. Artists deserve 100% of the money, no more, no less. Ruining the doujinka concept should be a felony grade criminal offense.

tl;dr: Want to support an artist? Pay them directly. Not through a paywall or whatever proxy. Directly. Man to man. Or if you've got an issue with genders, individual to individual.

This post has been edited by Luna_Flina: Jul 25 2020, 13:11

I came here to post some namespacing shit and I see some FAKKU-related post dragging attention. Cool beans.

Warning: Goalposts being moved. If you expected a banner-related post, move on to the tl;dr or please don't waste your time and just don't read this.

Oh, we already know how to tell artists to stay away from greedy publishers. Don't worry, Red. And no company will stop us, no matter how big, rich or "threatening" they are.

I've been doing my part and telling a few thousand activists, contacting artists to ignore any and all company approaching them to preserve their entire rights as doujinka, and that they could get uncensored translations for free elsewhere. I've also been encouraging direct support, which literally means 100% profit directly to them.

Will people lose their job in said companies? That's not my problem. Stealing someone's rights under the pretense of international advertising and making oneself look like a big anti-piracy activist when piracy websites actually offer free advertising is no joke. I don't even want to get started about translation scams and the various takeovers over more than a decade. A few decades, even.

As the OP stated about shitposts, PMs will be ignored and redirected to /dev/null. This is not open for debate. Artists deserve 100% of the money, no more, no less. Ruining the doujinka concept should be a felony grade criminal offense.

tl;dr: Want to support an artist? Pay them directly. Not through a paywall or whatever proxy. Directly. Man to man. Or if you've got an issue with genders, individual to individual.

What a shameful fucking display from the community.

There's something really special in every scanlation group I've spoken to, it's almost ethereal but there's always a genuine spark of enthusiasm for the doujins they work on.

Piracy is not a uniform force for good like some people here have represented it as. Piracy only breeds sales when the community is receptive and supportive of those involved. And the people in the comments, the people with uploads, they made it very clear they had no interest in approaching that topic through F!. If the community isn't going to be supportive, it no longer makes sense for F! to enable pirates in any capacity.

I genuinely thought that other members of the community would, provided they were financially able, support an official English release of a work they like. People are too buried in their own nonsensical insistence that piracy will pay for an artist's rent, or incoherent rage against the public figurehead of a company.

When I saw the uploader comment that said the response had been good so far, I was elated. I thought in spite of the vitriolic ramblings in the comments sections that people were following the link and supporting the artists and translators who brought them the works they enjoyed reading.

I see some posts complaining F! takes a share and doesn't transfer 100% of the money to the artists. The artists are the quintessential creators of the works we read, yes, however; translation and typesetting are both artforms in their own right. Infrastructure, hosting, that's not free on a physical level. It takes hard drives, it takes internet connections, it takes electricity. Not to mention making the website to host to begin with. If the people in the middle don't get paid, they can't keep translating doujins and giving the artists the share they do give them.

All that being said, those who are saying they could've approached this better, yeah, they could've. On the other hand, they probably didn't expect this scale of negative feedback. By all accounts this should have been a positive PR move for them- mutually beneficial community outreach. The response they got is patently ridiculous by any conventional understanding of cause and effect. Predictable? Maybe. Rational? Oh, absolutely not.

I will acknowledge that the response wasn't universally negative. I myself made at least one pretty neutral or positive comment, and I know I read a couple others. If you're a member of the community and you didn't comment or contribute to making the comments sections of the F! uploads cesspools, the above rant isn't about you.

This post has been edited by derpface222: Jul 25 2020, 14:19

Like other users have said, I think pulling the plug so soon was premature - this was a business move, and it should be treated with a professional mindset disregarding personal feelings (and I really do understand how frustrating and demotivating reading the community response must have been). I participated in some of the comment clean-ups to try to control the community insanity - because it's harmful not just to FAKKU, but also to E-Hentai - but I think the disaster falls on the shoulders of FAKKU's approach.

I do think the vast majority of community concerns fall under three categories: misconceptions about who's issuing DMCA takedowns, Jacob's statements on Twitter about piracy, and sentiments about the honesty of FAKKU's intentions.

The first one is already covered by our new system - I think it might've been pertinent to wait a while to allow it to take effect, and let the community start to see the real actors, and not attribute every takedown to the FAKKU boogeyman.

The second - well, I think others have talked about that more eloquently and observantly than I could.

As for the third... that could have been (and perhaps still could be) addressed.

The way I would have done it would have been through an uploader comment more tonally appropriate for the community - I do think FAKKU in general are slightly out of touch. In particular that would have been acknowledging both a plan and a motive - that you were releasing a limited selection of uncensored material to promote content awareness and to increase brand recognition. I think it might have been wise to mention that there was an invitation after the banner system was updated - and that this was not a business deal with E-Hentai; just a sanctioned use of our gallery system.

I do think there is still something to be salvaged here - there is a definite product (original uncensored images, alongside the translations) and there is considerable benefit to FAKKU - if you want to build yourselves up to be the biggest western marketplace for legal hentai consumption, then having visibility in places where hentai is consumed is important. And despite what others have said in this thread - I do not think the average user is necessarily aware of FAKKU, and certainly not the drama around it. There are millions of lurkers who do not interact with the community or voice any opinions and are simply there to read and explore: these are the market you're looking for.

Think it over and consider trying again - but get some proper PR handling (and advise whoever ends up with that job to consult someone over here on how to craft a message that resounds with our community properly, rather than appearing blatantly out-of-touch - feel free to PM me about that sort of thing). Goodwill, patience and respect can undo a lot of damage - it's just a matter of waiting out the initial bad response. Don't rush it and don't expect immediate results - you're looking at a minimum of weeks, more likely months to years to gain both legitimacy and trust in the eyes of the community.

For what it's worth, I think if you'd slowly uploaded occasional additions, bit by bit, the vocal minority - the absolute turds thinking they're part of some righteous crusade especially - would soon realise their voices held no sway, and that FAKKU were here to stay as part of the system. But instead we now have those morons on IRC claiming they won and the secret deal fell through. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by lestion: Jul 25 2020, 17:24