[X] My Assistant

Okay, so I'm curious about something.

I've seen from several high-level people's sigs that they don't bother maxing out Quartermaster even if the rest of the loot drop % upgrades are already maxed or near-maxed. What's the reasoning behind it?

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maybe..they need more artifacts (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

I think they prefer guaranteed equip drop from Rob/Arena clear bonus or trophies than spending large amount of credits maxing out Quartermaster.
And due to diminishing returns, the % increase from the last few levels costs much more than the same % increase from the first few levels.

And due to diminishing returns, the % increase from the last few levels costs much more than the same % increase from the first few levels.

That's a moot point. If all the other upgrades are maxed (or near-maxed), the % increase in upgrade cost would be irrelevant.

maybe..they need more artifacts (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Really? But the wiki says the reduction is very small.

Some quick math. Example on 10,000 successful drop rolls.

With no Quartermaster:
250 equipment pieces (2.5% of 10,000)
19.5 artifacts (0.2% of 9750)

With maxed Quartermaster:
500 equipment pieces (5% of 10,000)
19 artifacts (0.2% of 9500)

So that's trading 250 extra equipment for half an artifact. There's literally no point in neglecting Quartermaster upgrades, it seems to me.


Oh, and sidebar. From the wiki page on Equipment:

The base chance for equipment to drop is 4% of a normal loot drop.

So which is it? 4% or 2,5% for base equipment drop chance?

That's a moot point. If all the other upgrades are maxed (or near-maxed), the % increase in upgrade cost would be irrelevant.
Really? But the wiki says the reduction is very small.

Some quick math. Example on 10,000 successful drop rolls.

With no Quartermaster:
250 equipment pieces (2.5% of 10,000)
19.5 artifacts (0.2% of 9750)

With maxed Quartermaster:
500 equipment pieces (5% of 10,000)
19 artifacts (0.2% of 9500)

So that's trading 250 extra equipment for half an artifact. There's literally no point in neglecting Quartermaster upgrades, it seems to me.
Oh, and sidebar. From the wiki page on Equipment:
So which is it? 4% or 2,5% for base equipment drop chance?

Artifact_drop = (Loot_drop - Equipment_drop) * (Base_artifact_drop * (1 + Archaeologist_level * 0.1))

I don't think its gap is small (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

As I said, the clear bonus and trophies guarantees equip drop anyway so they feel less need for max Quartermaster than the others.

As I said, the clear bonus and trophies guarantees equip drop anyway so they feel less need for max Quartermaster than the others.

This argument would make sense for mid-level players who use their self-found trophies, but most people sell off their trophies on the forum and there are only a handful of arenas worth playing for the clear bonus.

I don't think its gap is small (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

My point was more along the lines of why would players not upgrade Quartermaster as much as the other loot drop % upgrades. I'll try to give a better example:

Player A: maxes out Archaeologist and Quartermaster.
Player B: maxes out Archaeologist but ignores Quartermaster to get more artifact drops

All other things being equal, the result of 10,000 successful rolls would be:

Player A: 500 equipment + 38 artifacts
Player B: 250 equipment + 39 artifacts

I'd take 250 extra equipment drops over 1 artifact any day. I'm just confused as to why people don't prioritize Quartermaster more (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

This argument would make sense for mid-level players who use their self-found trophies, but most people sell off their trophies on the forum and there are only a handful of arenas worth playing for the clear bonus.
My point was more along the lines of why would players not upgrade Quartermaster as much as the other loot drop % upgrades. I'll try to give a better example:

Player A: maxes out Archaeologist and Quartermaster.
Player B: maxes out Archaeologist but ignores Quartermaster to get more artifact drops

All other things being equal, the result of 10,000 successful rolls would be:

Player A: 500 equipment + 38 artifacts
Player B: 250 equipment + 39 artifacts

I'd take 250 extra equipment drops over 1 artifact any day. I'm just confused as to why people don't prioritize Quartermaster more (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

From what I've seen, most people don't fall into either though; they get 12-15 QM. Im guessing the several m credits for those last few levels (and training time!) just aren't worth it for the majority of players.

This argument would make sense for mid-level players who use their self-found trophies, but most people sell off their trophies on the forum and there are only a handful of arenas worth playing for the clear bonus.
My point was more along the lines of why would players not upgrade Quartermaster as much as the other loot drop % upgrades. I'll try to give a better example:

Player A: maxes out Archaeologist and Quartermaster.
Player B: maxes out Archaeologist but ignores Quartermaster to get more artifact drops

All other things being equal, the result of 10,000 successful rolls would be:

Player A: 500 equipment + 38 artifacts
Player B: 250 equipment + 39 artifacts

I'd take 250 extra equipment drops over 1 artifact any day. I'm just confused as to why people don't prioritize Quartermaster more (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

My 2 cents: equipment drops suck. At least at my level. Almost nothing is sellable anymore. And I'm still peerlessless. So why investing in just a bit more equips? What's the return on investment? 'Meh' at best.

Edit: I'm talking about the last 5 levels, those expensive ones.

This post has been edited by DJNoni: May 21 2017, 18:24

All other things being equal, the result of 10,000 successful rolls would be:

Player A: 500 equipment + 38 artifacts
Player B: 250 equipment + 39 artifacts

I'd take 250 extra equipment drops over 1 artifact any day. I'm just confused as to why people don't prioritize Quartermaster more (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

To add to this the absolute minimum the bazaar will buy equipment for is 100c, is even if 250 equips are the absolute worsts they could be they would still be worth more then a single artifact.

To add to this the absolute minimum the bazaar will buy equipment for is 100c, is even if 250 equips are the absolute worsts they could be they would still be worth more then a single artifact.

Yup, that's kinda my point.

If you're willing to train Archaeologist to the point where each new upgrade level costs like 1m+ (past 5/10 or so), then there's literally no reason not to also max Quartermaster.

If you're willing to train Archaeologist to the point where each new upgrade level costs like 1m+ (past 5/10 or so), then there's literally no reason not to also max Quartermaster.

Because you get A LOT more credits from artifacts.
So 10% more artifacts is A LOT (X2) better than 5% more equipments.

Yup, that's kinda my point.

If you're willing to train Archaeologist to the point where each new upgrade level costs like 1m+ (past 5/10 or so), then there's literally no reason not to also max Quartermaster.

I guess some of the reasons could be the user gameplay and the issue about RoI.

If you don't play solely on PFUDOR, then it's not really worth it to invest in quartermaster, as even Exquisites are rare while playing on Hell.

And on the RoI matter, it's much easier to see your investment being returned when selling PAs than when bazaaring all the trash equipment gotten duting the day, so it might be more of a mental issue of "I'm getting more artifacts instead of trash equipments", even if in the end, the extra equipments will sell for around the same.

I personaly regret investing in quartermaster, as I still play on Hell most of the time, and mine is only 6/20.

This post has been edited by Kinights: May 21 2017, 19:33

I'm not saying that Archaeologist isn't worth it. If you had to choose one or the other, then yes, getting extra artifacts is better than getting extra equipment. You'll make your return on investment back like 3-4 times quicker than with equivalent Quartermaster.

My point is that they're not mutually exclusive. Like I said a couple of posts ago, training Quartermaster will actually not reduce your profit from artifact drops at all. I just didn't understand why people who have millions to spend on upgrading Archaeologist, Scavenger and Luck of the Draw wouldn't also upgrade Quartermaster since it has no visible drawback.

I don't really feel like arguing the matter further. It's not like I have enough credits to even think about maxing any of these upgrades any time soon (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

After the first 5 levels, you need expensive rare item: Repurposed Actuator. This is expensive. You should only upgrade the best stats: ADB and Attack Crit, PMI, STR, DEX, END.

actually you need rare components always. the first 5 levels don't require bindings. which is still a good thing, btw.

What should I go for/upgrade next? Currently my stats and gear are:


[alt.hentaiverse.org] LDWD
[alt.hentaiverse.org] helmet
[alt.hentaiverse.org] body
[alt.hentaiverse.org] hands
[alt.hentaiverse.org] legs
[alt.hentaiverse.org] feet

And I have VV, EE, IA3, DD, DaD for perks. Currently on the lookout for a better helm. Should I forge the crap outta something? Soulbind my shirt (would add about 4% more dph)? Do any of the training options? Currently doing non-imperil arenas for speed on hell (takes about 3.5mins for trio and the tree arena) and can do DwD on PFUDOR in about 30mins.

This post has been edited by abc12345678901: May 21 2017, 20:25

What should I go for/upgrade next? Currently my stats and gear are:


[alt.hentaiverse.org] LDWD
[alt.hentaiverse.org] helmet
[alt.hentaiverse.org] body
[alt.hentaiverse.org] hands
[alt.hentaiverse.org] legs
[alt.hentaiverse.org] feet

And I have VV, EE, IA3, DD, DaD for perks. Currently on the lookout for a better helm. Should I forge the crap outta something? Soulbind my shirt (would add about 4% more dph)? Do any of the training options? Currently doing non-imperil arenas for speed on hell (takes about 3.5mins for trio and the tree arena) and can do DwD on PFUDOR in about 30mins.

Train your staff proficiency.

Change your cloth robe for a phase one. You are losing a lot of EDB on this.

Forge magic damage on your staff and proficiency and EDB on everything as much as you can.

Get Jug5 on the pieces who still don't have it.

Other than these improvements for battle, you can get LGBD so you can play a bit more if you want, as your clearspeed should be fast enough to grind on Hell.

If you change from arenas to GF, then you should also get crystal and token perks and invest in drop rate trainings.

is there a way to see actual result of training? like "character exp bonus = **%" or something like that.

Train your staff proficiency.

Change your cloth robe for a phase one. You are losing a lot of EDB on this.

Forge magic damage on your staff and proficiency and EDB on everything as much as you can.

Get Jug5 on the pieces who still don't have it.

Other than these improvements for battle, you can get LGBD so you can play a bit more if you want, as your clearspeed should be fast enough to grind on Hell.

If you change from arenas to GF, then you should also get crystal and token perks and invest in drop rate trainings.

Ya i still need to train staff, what's the best way? I know people say crude IW, but what difficulty? Should I switch to weakest staff I have to train it?

If I change my robe to a phase one, it would need an EDB base of ~ 22.5 to compensate the damage loss of proficiency (with or without imperil) which is 184% EDB, don't think those exist (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) Unless you're suggesting switching out pieces between phase and cotton, in which case which phase should be switched to cotton to compensate for the robe switching to phase?

Will forge my staff more, as well as my forbidden prof on my cloth pieces since I'm still a ways from cap on forbidden prof.

I'm intrested in doing GF, but last time I did it on hell I got to around round 500 and only got a very small return for the time and stamina invested (though I have about 20% more damage now). If I were to go for grindfest, which trainings, crystal perks/token perks, and difficulty should i need/play on as a minimum?

This argument would make sense for mid-level players who use their self-found trophies, but most people sell off their trophies on the forum and there are only a handful of arenas worth playing for the clear bonus.
My point was more along the lines of why would players not upgrade Quartermaster as much as the other loot drop % upgrades. I'll try to give a better example:

Player A: maxes out Archaeologist and Quartermaster.
Player B: maxes out Archaeologist but ignores Quartermaster to get more artifact drops

All other things being equal, the result of 10,000 successful rolls would be:

Player A: 500 equipment + 38 artifacts
Player B: 250 equipment + 39 artifacts

I'd take 250 extra equipment drops over 1 artifact any day. I'm just confused as to why people don't prioritize Quartermaster more (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Personally, I sincerely wish my Quartermaster was still zero.

With Tokenizer maxed, and archaeologist maxed, I receive a Chaos/Blood token or an artifact/trophy about every 39 rounds.

On the other hand, I'm continuously getting superiors or below while playing Hell.
Occasionally, I'll get a mag which becomes a high-grade material... but not that often.
The very few Legendaries I've been dropped on PF are trash.
Well... one ethereal rapier of slaughter with "meh" rolls.

I'd love for a few of those superiors to be tokens or artifacts.
If those extra 250 drops had bypassed the equipment branch, maybe a few would have worked out for me.
Maybe it would be every 37 rounds. I'd prefer that instead of a bunch of average/superiors.

I just wished I had thought that far ahead, and would have known from the beginning.

Personal preference though. Not for everyone.

Edit: I fully understand the slight loss of income of not having as many superior equipments sold to the bazaar.

I would much rather have tokens, especially when a couple of monster slots require over a hundred after a short while, and scavenger slots aren't cheap either.

This post has been edited by RoadShoe: May 22 2017, 00:49

Ya i still need to train staff, what's the best way? I know people say crude IW, but what difficulty? Should I switch to weakest staff I have to train it?

Crude IW @IWBTH, lower to Nintendo if you need to cure too often.

If I change my robe to a phase one, it would need an EDB base of ~ 22.5 to compensate the damage loss of proficiency (with or without imperil) which is 184% EDB, don't think those exist (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) Unless you're suggesting switching out pieces between phase and cotton, in which case which phase should be switched to cotton to compensate for the robe switching to phase?

Switching out your robe would be a bad decision at the moment.
With only gloves you would face nearly full dark mitigation and higher resist.

Actually your gloves are pretty crappy (I don't think they would be worth even 50k), I would consider upgrading them as soon as possible.
Same is true for cap.
Robe, pants and shoes are elemental prefixed but at least the important roll is there.
Get a good cap and gloves and start forging and IWing.

Also start forging MDB on staff as soon as possible, it's the biggest damage upgrade you can get.
BoD are costly but the damage boost you will get it's worth it.

I'm intrested in doing GF, but last time I did it on hell I got to around round 500 and only got a very small return for the time and stamina invested (though I have about 20% more damage now). If I were to go for grindfest, which trainings, crystal perks/token perks, and difficulty should i need/play on as a minimum?

Imho without Crystarium III and Archaeologist ~6 GFs are not that good.
Also unless you have LGBD you can use all your stamina in arenas so don't bother doing GF without perks/training and LGBD.