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Asked the Experts, For archive purposes only. Please use Ask the Expert! for questions |
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Dec 22 2015, 04:47
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Vanz/452
Group: Members
Posts: 467
Joined: 15-September 10

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Dec 22 2015, 13:44
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Epion
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 3,350
Joined: 20-February 08

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QUOTE(Void Domain @ Dec 21 2015, 15:54)  price estimation? 3 and 6 0~500k
QUOTE(Sapo84 @ Dec 21 2015, 16:04)  6 could sell (not sure if will ever reach more than 100-200k, it's still 2PAB mag with no prefix).
So i guess i can just gift it to Scremaz to substitute one of his exquisite pieces.
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Dec 22 2015, 13:49
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karyl123
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 1,659
Joined: 9-January 11

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QUOTE(nobody_xxx @ Dec 22 2015, 12:29)  rapier, trade w dipsy helmet 700k armor 1.5M legging 20k ticket ngga kaya2 amat. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif) current critical : 60% + heartseeker : 70 / 75% forgot how much heartseeker add critical value, This post has been edited by karyl123: Dec 22 2015, 13:58
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Dec 22 2015, 14:57
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Cleavs
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 24,317
Joined: 18-January 07

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QUOTE(Epion @ Dec 22 2015, 12:44)  So i guess i can just gift it to Scremaz to substitute one of his exquisite pieces. no cleavage, no party (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) jokes apart, not needed but thanks anyways (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Dec 22 2015, 15:20
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Epion
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 3,350
Joined: 20-February 08

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QUOTE(Scremaz @ Dec 22 2015, 12:57)  no cleavage, no party (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) No party? Party!!! This post has been edited by Epion: Dec 22 2015, 15:21
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Dec 22 2015, 16:09
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Void Domain
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 2,131
Joined: 30-May 10

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QUOTE(karyl123 @ Dec 22 2015, 19:49)  rapier, trade w dipsy helmet 700k armor 1.5M legging 20k ticket ngga kaya2 amat. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif) current critical : 60% + heartseeker : 70 / 75% forgot how much heartseeker add critical value, heartseeker is 10%, 10% at 60 gives you 64% crit.
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Dec 22 2015, 16:34
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doom9ra
Group: Members
Posts: 789
Joined: 11-December 10

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yeah,del,im idiot^^
This post has been edited by doom9ra: Dec 22 2015, 16:39
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Dec 22 2015, 21:41
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Superlatanium
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 7,635
Joined: 27-November 13

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I was thinking about cures vs income on PF-fest. Any moderately equipped mage can play Hellfest, but comparing Imperil-Hellfest to PF-fest, it's looking like PF-fest might be nearly as good if the player has enough firepower, due to stamina cost rising quickly past a certain number of rounds/day (Hell uses stamina quickly), and due to Hellfest being limited to no less than ~5 turns/round with Imperil (T3 cooldown) (additional damage doesn't help much). To test, I first need to figure out which round to flee at in PF-fest to maximize income. The main limitation is average Σ(Cure, Fullcure, Health Potion, Health Elixir, Spirit Potion, Spirit Elixir) per turn. Past a certain point, mages will be spending more turns on restoring their health and spirit than they'll be gaining from the additional crystals/round in deeper PF-fest.
Additional factors are the additional mana cost -> credit cost of Cure and Fullcure, and the credit cost of health elixirs, spirit potions, and spirit elixirs, but their costs are all quite low compared to the plain opportunity cost of a turn, so I'll ignore them for simplicity. So where is this certain point?
Chance of a crystal drop in GF: With maxed training, 0.215 drops per monster, or around 1.780 drops per round, past round 20 (maxed monsters per round spawned).
In PF-GF, going from round 20 to round ~260, crystal income increases from 30 crystals per drop ; 30 crystals/drop * 2.375 credits/crystal * 0.21479598 drops/monster * 8.3 monsters/round = 127.024973 credits/round (~43% of total profit) TO 40 crystals per drop = 169.366631 credits/round (~57% of total profit)
Assume income is around 40 cred/turn, which is in the ballpark for a well-equipped mage on PF-fest. Then to justify +42 credits/round from crystals on round 260, those rounds must take no more than ~1 more turn than the average during rounds ~20-30.
Figuring it out exactly depends on the individual's evade and damage, but for me, I can use Fullcure and health potions exclusively from rounds 20-100 or so - maybe beginning at one restore turn every 3 rounds. Past round 160 or so I have to use Cure occasionally, in addition to using Fullcure most of the time right after it comes off of CD, in addition to health potions every 50 turns and spirit potions every 100? turns. Here, I'm spending more than one turn per round (8.6 turns) on average restoring myself; not worth it. So probably somewhere between rounds 80 and 140 is my ideal time to flee.
A lot of these numbers are vague and inexact, but it looks like the overall idea is solid... don't go deep into PF-fest until you can manage not Curing often. I should check out Nin-fest and IWBTH-fest again.
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Dec 22 2015, 22:21
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jacquelope
Group: Members
Posts: 10,455
Joined: 28-July 15

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QUOTE(Superlatanium @ Dec 19 2015, 05:12)  Like I said they're harmless past a certain point. Eventually their SP attacks won't even be able to hurt your Spirit Shield. That's not the case for you yet, of course, which is why you still benefit a lot from Haste (and maybe SV as well). So if you get IA2, Haste is fine. (Of the other options, Protection already has a long duration, so IA not needed, Spirit Shield is only necessary on high difficulty, and SV only marginally increases defense in exchange for slower clear speed)
High difficulty SG arenas aren't worth it anyway, especially if you have to resort to using the damage consumables. Profit will be far in the red, and even if you play on PF the expected value of the Mag+ clear bonus is very small, smaller than the opportunity cost of the huge time (and consumables) requirement. I'm sure you can prove this using your data in Income Summary.
Yeah true, they're only really bad in the SG arenas (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I only did a high difficulty SG run twice, for my Dovahkiin title (had to flee the first time). Will not ever do again, so no, they're not all that dangerous normally. I haven't used Shadow Veil in, like, ages. I probably should just remove it off my quick bar. So do I even need IA2? If I get it, I guess I'll alternate between Haste for normal diff SG arenas and Spirit Shield for IW to boost my gear, and Hell/Nintendo/IWBTH in the non-SG arenas. Kinda miffed that Regen isn't an IA option...
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Dec 22 2015, 23:00
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nec1986
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 2,569
Joined: 12-October 14

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Hellfest is always better. If mage is uberstrong then its still something like 7 turns/round for pf and ~4 turns/round for hell. There is no sense to play pf only for higher gear income in 1,5+ times slower way. I also like no imperil much more, because its very simple style.
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Dec 22 2015, 23:19
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jacquelope
Group: Members
Posts: 10,455
Joined: 28-July 15

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Dec 22 2015, 23:23
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Sapo84
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 3,332
Joined: 14-June 09

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QUOTE(jacquelope @ Dec 22 2015, 21:21)  Kinda miffed that Regen isn't an IA option...
Regen or Heartseeker/Arcane Focus would be too strong on IA, they would literally cover all the spell needs. I think it's for balance reason. Anyway, I'm doing some SG Arenas lately, they may not be worth it for credits, but I'm starting to thing they are not that bad lately. EoE it's only 50% slower than TTT (I use only one enchant and finish with spare time, so <15 minutes for me), ED and DwD are a pain in the ass but still less than an hour combined, so not too bad. For EXP/stamina are still ok, I guess. @jacquelope: pretty much, but since HGM is worth nothing and plate will not gain you many credits I'd still try to sell it for players switching from light to heavy, you may be able to get 10-20k. This post has been edited by Sapo84: Dec 22 2015, 23:25
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Dec 23 2015, 00:06
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jacquelope
Group: Members
Posts: 10,455
Joined: 28-July 15

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QUOTE(Sapo84 @ Dec 22 2015, 13:23)  Regen or Heartseeker/Arcane Focus would be too strong on IA, they would literally cover all the spell needs. I think it's for balance reason.
Anyway, I'm doing some SG Arenas lately, they may not be worth it for credits, but I'm starting to thing they are not that bad lately. EoE it's only 50% slower than TTT (I use only one enchant and finish with spare time, so <15 minutes for me), ED and DwD are a pain in the ass but still less than an hour combined, so not too bad. For EXP/stamina are still ok, I guess.
@jacquelope: pretty much, but since HGM is worth nothing and plate will not gain you many credits I'd still try to sell it for players switching from light to heavy, you may be able to get 10-20k.
SG arenas are a huge credit boon. The credits you get during the process of clearing of the arena is itself not trivial, and the SG trophies are quite profitable, and that's before considering the recent price increases in some WTB shops (like Amiya and K.A.'s shops). In my experience, the SG arenas can make you upwards of 150K especially if you manage to get Artifacts or enough Blood Tokens. Combined with the next 2 Arenas you can hit 180K.
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