[X] My Assistant

Sets. I think mage is very expensive style, so i wanna check it. All has 2.0 prof and zero additional turn on cure/rebuff and so on. Also its holy, because its very powerful.
5k magic score no damage perks - 8,25 turns/round
10k - 4,66
15k - 3,47
15k with 30% perk - 2,91

Of course mage use many cures, gems, pots and so on. So its gonna be higher. But actually difference between 10k and 15k with 30% perk (its huge amount for my lvl) is only...1.5x? So looks like 10-20m credits mage already is quite powerful.

I reckon you got these numbers from other players, but did you take into account of their level? 15k magic score at level 450 is a lot less significant than 10k magic score at level 400 player.

And what is the method to calculate those turn/round numbers? Did you count total turns to clear hellfest, subtract the number of heals/buffs and divide by 1000 to get them?

This post has been edited by holy_demon: May 27 2015, 11:47

By the way. I also found this:

http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=24eea1451a

Which has *5* PABs (with Arcanist). Is it good enough that I should soulbind it and start building a light melee set around it?

Power is better than shade. Once you get to 280+, Power's larger ADB will help you a lot more than Shade's bonuses. (light armor evade also does not go well with 1h)

I'm currently using 1h/shield in light armor.
Would I have an easier time in heavy armor? The wiki lists the 1h/shield build to wear heavy but I'm unsure how up to date that is.

Anyone here doing 1h/shield? curious what you're wearing.

1h is enough to survive any difficulty, once you're at a high enough level. So, the factor to consider when figuring out what armor to wear is how much your damage / clear speed is increased - which is with Power, preferably Power Slaughter. 1h also doesn't go very well with light/shade due to evade.

Thank you for your hard work nec1986.
Imperil How to determine magical defense? It can't be seen or scanned right?

You welcome. I was counting that for me, so why not to share with others. Imperil is quite easy staff. I just attacked near 20 times 3 different mobs and got average damage. Because only magical and elemental defense reduce (and i know second one) than its not hard to count magical. For best result its better to attack someone with full chaos upgrade and take numbers from that, but my main idea was just estimate something close to that. For example.
Celestial. Probably not the strongest defense, because wis is quite solid, but end is only near average.
Spell damage = 1116 * 4 = 4464
Average hit with 61% mitg 584
Average hit after imperil with 21% mitg 2255.
So, we can see full defense with 61% mitg reduce up to 13% of overall damage. Its 66% magical defense. After imperil we get without elemental mitg 64% of overall damage and its 36% defense. You can see its not very accurate, because we have random in our spell damage and usually its +-20%, so 10 samples is very low amount. But we get double damage with 0% elemental mitg from imperil and thats already enough. Btw, someone like giant should give higher increase, because huge end amount.

Holy vs elemental What difficulty was this at? Hell?

Yes. For very accurate result we should also include cures. Holy has slower action speed. But it also has some cure bonus.

How to determine the clearance time with reduced cooldown?

How to determine the clearance time with different score? Through simulation?

I reckon you got these numbers from other players, but did you take into account of their level? 15k magic score at level 450 is a lot less significant than 10k magic score at level 400 player.

And what is the method to calculate those turn/round numbers? Did you count total turns to clear hellfest, subtract the number of heals/buffs and divide by 1000 to get them?

I did only for my level. Idea was quite simple. Some time ago (actually hell now has x7, so maybe overall hp is higher) i checked average hp of mobs. I collected few hundreds of samples. It wasnt hard, because its enough to copy-past strings with hp from chat. So i had many templates like this one.
44666 58028 28493 56538 44666 59047 43113 46357
Its round with 8 mobs. After that i just added string in excel with hp minus random from 0,8 to 1,2 of spell damage. And also 2 random for crit damage and resist (10% chance to 50% damage). One additional tab with damage dissemination. After that continue until all dead. Sound a bit complicated, but in reality its just copy-past. Here is example:
(IMG:[107.imagebam.com] http://107.imagebam.com/download/eeyak3cKS5t-oWc63wYM4Q/41205/412040342/excel.JPG)

After that i counted average turns from different situation in different packs of mobs. It doesnt include magical defense of different types of mobs, but it affect any type. Also with 2.0 prof i counted holy as 0 elemental mitg and elemental mage with from 12 to 18 as i remember.

You welcome. I was counting that for me, so why not to share with others. Imperil is quite easy staff. I just attacked near 20 times 3 different mobs and got average damage. Because only magical and elemental defense reduce (and i know second one) than its not hard to count magical. For best result its better to attack someone with full chaos upgrade and take numbers from that, but my main idea was just estimate something close to that. For example.
Celestial. Probably not the strongest defense, because wis is quite solid, but end is only near average.
Spell damage = 1116 * 4 = 4464
Average hit with 61% mitg 584
Average hit after imperil with 21% mitg 2255.
So, we can see full defense with 61% mitg reduce up to 13% of overall damage. Its 66% magical defense. After imperil we get without elemental mitg 64% of overall damage and its 36% defense. You can see its not very accurate, because we have random in our spell damage and usually its +-20%, so 10 samples is very low amount. But we get double damage with 0% elemental mitg from imperil and thats already enough. Btw, someone like giant should give higher increase, because huge end amount.

I guess this was using a 0 proficiency build to reduce the number of variables.

What is 1116? Is it magic base damage from the character stats screen?
And what is * 4? Is it the base damage from an Elemental T1 spell? Were you following http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Spell_Damage? The wiki says the formula is out of date, but even the old formula says there is contribution from EDB, upgraded Abilities, and maybe others.
4464 is the calculated theoretical damage before mitigations right?

thanks, good calculations.

Yes. For very accurate result we should also include cures. Holy has slower action speed. But it also has some cure bonus.
I did only for my level. Idea was quite simple. Some time ago (actually hell now has x7, so maybe overall hp is higher) i checked average hp of mobs. I collected few hundreds of samples. It wasnt hard, because its enough to copy-past strings with hp from chat. So i had many templates like this one.
44666 58028 28493 56538 44666 59047 43113 46357
Its round with 8 mobs. After that i just added string in excel with hp minus random from 0,8 to 1,2 of spell damage. And also 2 random for crit damage and resist (10% chance to 50% damage). One additional tab with damage dissemination. After that continue until all dead. Sound a bit complicated, but in reality its just copy-past. Here is example:
(IMG:[107.imagebam.com] http://107.imagebam.com/download/eeyak3cKS5t-oWc63wYM4Q/41205/412040342/excel.JPG)

After that i counted average turns from different situation in different packs of mobs. It doesnt include magical defense of different types of mobs, but it affect any type. Also with 2.0 prof i counted holy as 0 elemental mitg and elemental mage with from 12 to 18 as i remember.

Yes, once you consider Cure, greater proportion of T2/T3 spells could be cast.

Also once Mmi is considered, monsters die slower and even more Cures need to be cast. High magic score + perks means mobs die faster and less cure is needed.

This is the quote, but it's second-hand.

I don't really see what the problem is with mitigations. If holy and dark need to be fixed then I think that can be done in other ways. So, I have a feeling that he'll tinker around with mitigations and then remove Imperil from the game or something (and I can't imagine that mages would be buffed to equally compensate), which would be a drastic change to my play-style.

Thanks mate. Removing Imperil? No wonder base MDB/EDB ranges got a strong boost.

I guess this was using a 0 proficiency build to reduce the number of variables.

What is 1116? Is it magic base damage from the character stats screen?
And what is * 4? Is it the base damage from an Elemental T1 spell?

Yep. 0edb with 1116 mdb and 4 scale for elemental spell. I just used that in my 1h set. I can check it a bit later with all 6 skills from holy/elemental and average damage for prof. Also i have some interest to check class defense.

About mmi i used that. I just ignored individual value and thats not right approach. Thats not rly affect elemental/holy difference, because all face same magical. It can only have slightly lower (or maybe increase) ratio. But it can affect a bit average turns/round. Also probably there is no big difference in incoming damage between 2-5 turns, because its all same attacks. Mp starts from 6-7 turn. Here is my main idea:

Mmi or elemental mitg has effect mostly against very tanky mobs. So we should look more at hp. If mob has 20k hp, than even with 80+20 he ll die with same speed as 40k with 60+0 and max hp is higher than 60k. So we should count only tanky mobs with some defense, because mostly only this one ll increase our average turns/round. For example sprite has high elemental defense, but his magical should be low and overall hp also. He has very weak dark resistance, but if im right than any style has same average turns, because he ll die before or at least not longer than others.

Anyone knows what script is used that give information (credits, turns, exp) at the end of fight?

zero mag and leg , it seems my luck is gone with the old patch (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

If you continue to whine you may loose what "little" luck you still have. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

What are the recommended shield potencies? Or do they not really matter? I looked at a few people's shields and it seems like the most common one is Coldproof followed by Windproof: Colman m118w11 mozilla browser nobody_xxx TygerTyger. But this is such a small sample size that it's almost meaningless.

Same as Armors. Holyproof (Celestial / Sprite) = Fireproof (Dragonkin) = Darkproof (Daimon / SG Arena) > All the rest.

Even higher leveled melees and other high tier mages can do 150k/h profit, it's not too hard.

My old Nintendo income used to be 115k/h, 125k/h for BT, and I haven't calculated for IWBTH and PFUDOR yet, but they could possibly be pretty close to 150.
I think top tier mages could get closer to something like 250-300k/h

From Arena or Fest? In Arena, the amount of Raw Credits that you can roughly get per day is fixed. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (Credit Drop in Arena is NOT random)

Hmm which one is more likely to happen? Does anyone know what exactly Tenb said?

He said that he has plans to convert the mitigations of the monsters into their HP. Monsters will still have mitigations, but the amount will be very low.
I don't know anything about the Holy/Dark deal, though.

I don't really see what the problem is with mitigations. If holy and dark need to be fixed then I think that can be done in other ways. So, I have a feeling that he'll tinker around with mitigations and then remove Imperil from the game or something (and I can't imagine that mages would be buffed to equally compensate), which would be a drastic change to my play-style.

Imperil isn't going anywhere. But after that "Mitigation Balancing", it'll become useless.

Some people say 2.5 is bad while in some places 1.3 is lucky enough.

Lately I'm getting increase in my ping. 2.5 T/S nowadays. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)

Holy has slower action speed. But it also has some cure bonus.

Huh? Holy EDB no longer gives Cure buff. Or are you talking about Oak Staff?

-snip-

Some of you people are taking this game wayyyy too seriously. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by tetron: May 27 2015, 17:44

Yea, i mean oak staff. Why serious? Im just curios about few facts, nothing special. Its better to spend 30-60 minutes in checking, than 20m and got something i dont rly want.

Why serious? Im just curios about few facts, nothing special. Its better to spend 30-60 minutes in checking, than 20m and got something i dont rly want.

That IS being serious. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Curios about some "game" mechanics is being serious. Its a good thing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

From Arena or Fest? In Arena, the amount of Raw Credits that you can roughly get per day is fixed. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (Credit Drop in Arena is NOT random)

Grindfest of course. Arena income is way higher, could actually be anywhere up to 300k/h even for high level melees if you include RoB and the like.

Anyone knows what script is used that give information (credits, turns, exp) at the end of fight?

HV Counter Plus

Curios about some "game" mechanics is being serious. Its a good thing (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Sure it is. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) But HV is not your everyday game. Remember why we ended up coming to this place in the 1st place. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Grindfest of course. Arena income is way higher, could actually be anywhere up to 300k/h even for high level melees if you include RoB and the like.

300k/"HOUR"?????? Are you out of your mind? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Show me 1 person who can clear ALL the arenas in 1 Hour, INCLUDING the 3 SG ones, in IWBTH. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

And besides, the new patch seems to have reduced the max Credits you can get from Arena per day. Before the patch, I could get ~200k raw credits per full arena clear in IWBTH/PFUDOR. Now in this patch I get ~150k raw credits for full arena clear in IWBTH/PFUDOR. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

Sure it is. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) But HV is not your everyday game. Remember why we ended up coming to this place in the 1st place. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
300k/"HOUR"?????? Are you out of your mind? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Show me 1 person who can clear ALL the arenas in 1 Hour, INCLUDING the 3 SG ones, in IWBTH. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

And besides, the new patch seems to have reduced the max Credits you can get from Arena per day. Before the patch, I could get ~200k raw credits per full arena clear in IWBTH/PFUDOR. Now in this patch I get ~150k raw credits for full arena clear in IWBTH/PFUDOR. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

I'm not counting raw credits only, so then it turns out significantly higher. For example I can clear up to the SGs in an hour or so, the raw credits plus all drops and shrining can well turn out to be around 300k/h

This post has been edited by erwtsnert: May 27 2015, 19:29

I'm not counting raw credits only, so then it turns out significantly higher. For example I can clear up to the SGs in an hour or so, the raw credits plus all drops and shrining can well turn out to be around 300k/h

Without the SG ones you get 300k worth of items?? Man, that's some luck!! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
My total income from Arena per day is ~300k (Including the SG ones)

Remember why we ended up coming to this place in the 1st place.

I don't know about you, the fakku purge kinda killed that for me.

And just to keep this on-topic...

For a decent while before 0.82, I've felt like I've been getting weaker every time I level. As between level scaling of enemies, stat bonuses that are dependent upon amount over current level, the huge number of twinked out enemies I'm dealing with constantly (I fucking miss the non-user monsters with passion), and god knows what else, I felt like I was lucky to maintain clear rates. Then with .82 pretty much changing that from a "feeling" to an incontrovertible fact and hearing about mages clearing rounds, on average, in the time it takes me to kill one enemy and I wonder what the fuck is going on.

So am I just nuts or what?

This post has been edited by okayno: May 27 2015, 19:56

Remember why we ended up coming to this place in the 1st place. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

yup. back then i really thought that it would have been a nice way to earn some credits to download hentai. then i took an arrow on my knee

I don't know about you, the fakku purge kinda killed that for me.

I've read about that. Dick move (of Fakku) if you ask me. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

And just to keep this on-topic... For a decent while before 0.82, I've felt like I've been getting weaker every time I level. With .82 pretty much changing that from a "feeling" to an incontrovertible fact. Then I hear about mages clearing rounds, on average, in the time it takes me to kill one enemy and I wonder what the fuck is going on.

So am I just nuts or what?

Yes you are...maybe...probably. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

yup. back then i really thought that it would have been a nice way to earn some credits to download hentai. then i took an arrow on my knee

Same case bro. Same case for everyone. (As I always say, Tenboro is a genius. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) )

I've read about that. Dick move (of Fakku) if you ask me. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

What happened? TLDR?