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hello expert.

I need advice (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

my prof stats are bad,

should I train my prof first then level up. or just level up, then train later ?

(IMG:[i.imgur.com] http://i.imgur.com/NjrN5S2.png)

Level up then train later. It will be easier to train profs later.

Amongst the four main elements (fire, cold, wind, elec), is there any that is marginally preferred for a mage's damage dealing ability, and why?

Actually, maybe I should expand this question to include holy and dark elements too. But that gets complicated by difference in spell costs, cast times, etc.

Even if we don't know the answer to that today, what might it depend on so that I can go crunch some numbers?

Eg,
- specific mitigation of mobs to that element (mean? median? weighted average by PL and frequency of appearance? I don't even know how to gets these numbers, but we can only try to get these numbers once we know what we want)
- there is a spike shield effect that is especially suited to each element. Is that spike shield effect "good"?
- With AP investments, that spike shield effect confers additional mitigation from monster elemental damage. What is the best element to get mitigation from? (eg. based on monster's elemental damage inflicted. I did some initial crunching of these in early Feb)
- cost of gear, and competition to get the top gear (number of high level and rich players who will splurge ridiculous amounts of credit to get the gear)

please propose what other factors might be involved. Props if you have data too!

Holy is good just expensive.
I thought cold would be quite strong on pfudor after the player speed fix. However we haven't heard much from enough cold mages. Cold mages seem to neither complain nor brag apart from the difficulty in collecting legendary gear.
The difference depends on what you are doing. In terms of resistances they aren't too different. -50 is useless for all mages until you are over 450 due to Tenboro's rebalancing to encourage melee. Wind has a faster clear time for SG arenas and the defensive debuff helps a lot for high round grindfest.

90% of Willow staffs are worse than redwoods. Willows were balanced before the potency tweak and it seems quite hard to find a willow with good mdb, edb and profficiency. Peerless willow is better :/

The mjolnir debuff is also broken, its gotten a few indirect nerfs. Quite a few patches back monsters had more evade and more resist, so the debuff gave about +10% damage. Now with the evade change and the resist change it gives about 2.8% damage on average.

If you are just doing regular arenas then Mjolnir is better than Wind but if you want to do grindfest and SG then Wind has the edge.

thanks. how did i miss these posts (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) Ahh, in another topic.

This post has been edited by mozilla browser: Mar 23 2015, 04:18

delete - doublepost.

This post has been edited by mozilla browser: Mar 23 2015, 04:18

In addition to that, it seems that Wind is the most popular element among high-level players. As a result, I'm going to make a wild guess that top-tier Wind gear is priced / auctioned / sold at a somewhat higher price than the other elements, and that there's less available because proportionally more are being used. So depending on what someone is aiming for and their budget, that could be an important factor.

Thanks. I just did some crunching of monster mitigation data. I believe similar conclusions can be drawn from jenga's db.

Amongst all the monsters I've seen the arithmetic average mitigation for the elements fire/cold/wind/elec/holy/dark regardless of PL was:
47,44,44,44,40,37

When this is constrained to the monsters above PL 1000 (which is pretty much all that high level players will ever see):
50,47,46,45,42,40

Above PL 1500:
61,55,55,54,53,51

Above PL 1800:
69,65,65,65,65,47

Above PL 2000:
69,64,64,64,64,51

These are the arithmetic average. So it is not weighted by the actual frequency of meeting that monster, which would be a useful metric. Nor is it weighted by the actual HP of that monster, which might be useful because high mitigation + low HP might balance out with low mitigation + high HP. But this is all I have.

Some early conclusions from this:
- Fire is the worst element for a mage to pick. It's really pretty horrible.
- As monster PLs rise, they slowly end up having the same holy mitigation as for the 4 main elements. Maybe this is due to large number of celestials.
- High PL monsters have least default mitigation against Dark. And it is a pretty significant difference.

When we take Imperil into consideration
- For high PL mobs, the 4 elements and dark end up with similar specific mitigation of around 25%. In which case, would the 4 elements be better?
- When you include other PL > 1000 mobs, the specific mitigation for the 4 elements almost disappears. This reinforces the idea that the 4 elements are better.
- Holy ends up being worse for very high level mages. But this is counter to conventional wisdom that Holy is best. Maybe my assumptions need to be examined

P.S. http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Damage needs to be fixed. Specific mitigations are up to -40% with Better Imperil, not -50%.

- cost of gear, and competition to get the top gear (number of high level and rich players who will splurge ridiculous amounts of credit to get the gear)

Fire and cold Staff is harder to find as you need to rely on redwood alone.
Wind phase is too popular so it will be expensive.
Electric is the most balanced element in term of difficulty for finding suitable gears.

BTW, good cotton of elementalist is rarer than the holy and dark version (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

Fire and cold Staff is harder to find as you need to rely on redwood alone.
Wind phase is too popular so it will be expensive.
Electric is the most balanced element in term of difficulty for finding suitable gears.

BTW, good cotton of elementalist is rarer than the holy and dark version (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

also, it's because all 4 elemental mage have to compete with elementalist cotton & holy/dark have their own cotton. i had a WTB thread to buy cotton pants/robe for months and i've only got 1 pants offer from Jenga, but then, i've switched to holy and no need for elementalist pants.(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

also, it's because all 4 elemental mage have to compete with elementalist cotton & holy/dark have their own cotton. i had a WTB thread to buy cotton pants/robe for months and i've only got 1 pants offer from Jenga, but then, i've switched to holy and no need for elementalist pants.(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

If it is good, can you give me an offer? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

What would you guys say are the best and worst monster types to choose for your Monster Lab?

I think stat wise, since the minimum stat per level up is 6 and the max is 10 that you generally want to choose monster types that have 100 or less stats and decently spread out to get the most from attribute gains anyways.

Celestials seem great to me, I don't really get why Giants are popular though. I wonder about what the best skill choice for Undead at tier 3 is since they have low int, dark doesn't seem too great an idea. Celestial and Daimon, should they go holy/dark or void as well? Seems void is pretty much always the best but I like to just make sure. What would you say is the best elemental damage type for Elementals? I have a ton of little questions about monster choices.

This post has been edited by FruitSmoothie: Mar 23 2015, 12:54

So i started getting better drops. It's nothing special, just some superior stuff. Should i sell all of them to npc? Or can i do more with it?

What would you guys say are the best and worst monster types to choose for your Monster Lab?

I think stat wise, since the minimum stat per level up is 6 and the max is 10 that you generally want to choose monster types that have 100 or less stats and decently spread out to get the most from attribute gains anyways.

Celestials seem great to me, I don't really get why Giants are popular though. I wonder about what the best skill choice for Undead at tier 3 is since they have low int, dark doesn't seem too great an idea. Celestial and Daimon, should they go holy/dark or void as well? Seems void is pretty much always the best but I like to just make sure. What would you say is the best elemental damage type for Elementals? I have a ton of little questions about monster choices.

The most popular seem to be Giant, Arthropod and Celestial.
Giants have a cr*p-ton of HP. They will get more attacks and specials off. Also, if you die, they tend to be still alive.
Arthropods have medium-high HP but higher damage. Think Giant with more brunt and a little less HP.
Celestials have good resist and spell damage and @T3 void damage special. If the void special hits, it can't be mitigated by elemental resists, so (barring resists) does full damage. The downside is, that they usually get killed first if they get figured out to be celestials.

Elementals seem to be the same as celestials with less resists and worse damage type.

So i started getting better drops. It's nothing special, just some superior stuff. Should i sell all of them to npc? Or can i do more with it?

Superior stuff usually isn't worth holding on to. I tend to bazaar rare stuff (phase, power, shade, katana...) and salvage everything above superior otherwise for materials. Everything below superior just gets bazaared.
If you need some more gear you could check out the FreeSHop, if you haven't already done so (hint: really read the rules). They usually stock better stuff than you can find yourself until you get a lot further into the game.

Attempting to get back into it after 2 yrs or so, Holy/dark mage still viable, or do i need to completely change?

What would you guys say are the best and worst monster types to choose for your Monster Lab?

I think stat wise, since the minimum stat per level up is 6 and the max is 10 that you generally want to choose monster types that have 100 or less stats and decently spread out to get the most from attribute gains anyways.

Celestials seem great to me, I don't really get why Giants are popular though. I wonder about what the best skill choice for Undead at tier 3 is since they have low int, dark doesn't seem too great an idea. Celestial and Daimon, should they go holy/dark or void as well? Seems void is pretty much always the best but I like to just make sure. What would you say is the best elemental damage type for Elementals? I have a ton of little questions about monster choices.

it really depends on the type of their opponents, so how much you want to raise their PLs. someone says that under PL1000 it's all the same. surely at high PLs celestials, sprites and other void users are a good choice.
at intermediate PLs probably giants and arthropods, since they can endanger users with their END/attacks
elementals are viable only at high PLs, but i don't really know which kind of attack is the best for them
undeads, i'd really give a shot at physical dark. celestials/daimons, pick void as soon as you can

Attempting to get back into it after 2 yrs or so, Holy/dark mage still viable, or do i need to completely change?

iirc holy is still viable, while dark only with top-notch or so. at your current level, the best choice is 1h + shield + heavy power atm

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Mar 23 2015, 19:38

Is the -50 holy/fire resist really that crippling for Undead? Their attributes otherwise look really great. They're only a bit under Giants stat wise and they gain a lot of resistances for it. As you guys say, wind and elec are considered the best elements right? Well Undead seem like a counter for people who try to counter Giants and have crush and pierce resist to boot.

Oh you edited Undead into your post. I was hoping someone would mention them since I'm not sure how to build mine. You think dark damage as the 3rd skill would be best?

This post has been edited by FruitSmoothie: Mar 23 2015, 19:52

Almost any is good. You can grow celestial to counter someone with 1h and notice 1h already has perfect defense to any monster. Its definitely better than other because its crush+powerful void, but sometimes you dont rly wanna try to kill 1h. So someone to counter mage/light can be better, because their defense it weaker. Hard to say, because main style still 1h.

Interesting. How about this instead of holy phase. Would it be viable?

Those kinds of staves had value for a while. Not sure if people are still buying them. Theoretically having enough holy edb can save a lot of mana.

Unfortunately, the linked staff has got a pretty low Holy bonus: not even S level despite being legendary and hallowed.

Magic damage is high for this kind of staff, but that doesn't make it high strictly speaking. I don't find it particularly valuable.

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