[X] My Assistant

I would say just don't, because they take too long (unless all your equipment is excellent) and they don't give as much experience or credits per time as the standard 70-100 round arenas. But if you want to, then

I'd use both Spark and Spirit Shield. Especially when there are many monsters, even at 100% health, 5 SP attacks can still kill you if you don't have Spark (fewer if you're holding down a number key to attack and don't release the button until a turn later). But Spirit Shield is still very useful for keeping high-powered attacks do a relatively low amount of damage to your HP - it lets you rely just on Regen more - fewer Cures needed, and you can Spirit Theft whatever spirit you lose after a few rounds.

3-target Weaken costs 15, and 3-target Silence costs 18. But, Silence almost eliminates damage taken, while Weaken only halves it. So I'd try to just use Silence, and maybe use Weaken if the Silence doesn't connect (and if Shield Bash is not usable) - but Weaken still usually isn't necessary.

If your mitigations/block/max HP are high enough, you might be able to play DwD without Silence or Weaken at all, but I doubt that's doable without top-notch equipment.

Imperil is almost useless when the target also has Penetrated Armor, especially with 3 stacks of PA, so I'd avoid Imperil.

Especially for DwD, I strongly recommend an OFC set. At the start of every schoolgirl round you can use it, and you don't need to tank many ordinary monster hits for 20-40 turns until they're dead like you do without OFC.

You can probably afford to go more offensive. My level is only slightly higher than yours but I can do DwD with 64 pmit / 61 mmit without much trouble.

Ragnarok is expensive. It's the most cost-efficient spell only when there are 1-3 monsters - otherwise, use Disintegrate instead, for a more efficient chance of a Ripened Soul proc per mana used. Want the math?

Sure spirit regen can be efficient, if the alternative is running out of spirit potions and dying on round 100.

I want to achieve PFUDOR top arenas once at least for fun. What IA level do you have? And how much damage OFC gives for single target compared to Vital Strike? Disentegrate looks too unstable, and I dont want to AP him for more targets...

70-100 arenas is top for credits? Dont care about exp much...

yes, it's quite easy to kill. but you HAVE to do it at the starting of the level, before it charges its MP/SP bars - as i told you, its SP is very powerful: try to let it live for a while and please tell me what you noted (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I do not notice this mob at all, it does not look special among other.

having a rapier with END is quite nice, but it has very low PA chance and duration is the barely minimum for PA to stack. something like 25/4 or 20/5 may give you way better results.
the suffix isn't optimal, and we're speaking about 300 ADB less than what you may have (and i don't even have one butcher level). also, it would be better if you had some fatality among your potencies. with a good set of powers of slaughter you may not consider the suffix, but still...
with SG is almost imperative a good PA chance/turn stat
also, not shadow veil if i don't use shade set.

I know, but it looks ok for now, especially in comparison to 2H style XD

But shadow veil gives extra defence wich is important too

This post has been edited by Benny-boy: Feb 15 2015, 00:30

I have some question about the drop Limits:
Do the round Counter for Limits only Count for lower difficultier?

I mean would i get a Penalty, if i Play 1000 rounds on hell and then switch to normal?
If not:
Counts it for every difficulty sepereately or for lower difficulties together?

afaik they say it dinamically changes with the difficulty you're using, which means that if you played 900 rounds @normal and then go at nintendo it's converted to zero.

it starts to hit when you reach 1000 rounds on normal/hard/nightmare, so hell is the first difficulty without this problem (thus the reason because many people are interested in doing hellfest rather than hardfest or so)

OFC is good for schoolgirls, because you can just cast it any new round and deal only with 1-3 monsters. Also d be nice to have 3 or more ia slots. You can easy use even 14/1 mp/sp pots ratio and just regen sp sometimes with spirit theft. F.e. for me it can easy regen almost 20% sp for only 13% mp. It has profit, specially including fact mp overflow can be spend for rebuff/sp theft and sp overflow is mostly useless. Btw, about mana consumption. This long run is mostly good strategy. You should use channeling for recasting expensive spells\gems\overflow. Also check spirit shield threshold. You should absorb only strong damage without low 0-15 sp cost. So sometimes in schoolgirls arenas you can even prefer spark, because you can use 1 cure for restoration when you face low amount of mobs (again ofc helps here), but its not necessary with good mana management.

Main problem with that arenas is exactly ability to keep mp/sp for long duration. Im sure strong 1h can clear it even without any pot (someone 400lvl+), just because they have awesome pull and low consumption.
But i prefer to do it on normal, because it has not so big credits difference, but much faster.

This post has been edited by nec1986: Feb 15 2015, 00:46

I want to achieve PFUDOR top arenas once at least for fun.

oh well, it's your time and tendons we're speaking about afterall...

And how much damage OFC gives for single target compared to Vital Strike?

when casted on spirit stance OFC can clean (or almost) the whole area, even with 10 mobs

70-100 arenas is top for credits? Dont care about exp much...

it seems so. SG are to do for trophies only, if your drop trainings aren't so high

I do not notice this mob at all, it does not look special among other.

as i told you before, let it build the time to SP-attack you

I know, but it looks ok for now, especially in comparison to 2H style XD

uhu. 2H is a bit dead nowadays. if you really have to change pick DW instead. still crappy, but a little less crappy than 2H

But shadow veil gives extra defence wich is important too

shadow veil can be your ruin with 1H heavy: letting apart the big amount of MP it requires even in spirit stance (109MP is a lot when you have to recast it every 85 turns!) it procs before both block and parry, thus subtracting hits to be countered. maybe it may raise your survivability a bit, but it will surely lower your overall damage, so the balance is negative. use it only as last resort and with a lot of MP to waste.
personally it's a lot that i don't use either spark or shadow veil with power armors

do you rely so much on deprecating spells/special skills? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

It makes your play more efficient. But, if your gear is good enough, you don't have to. I only use Silence myself, and only if I really need to conserve spirit from SP attacks.

How much SP do you use for these arenas? Do you use Shadow Veil?

P.S. Why everyone is so afraid of tsukiko tsutsukikake? IMHO its average mob.

Shadow Veil can help you survive longer, which is good if you really want to finish to the end and your gear isn't great. But it doesn't go well with the Block-centric 1h style - only use it if you really really need the additional survivability.

Tsu can do as much damage as a schoolgirl (or more - much more than Konata at least).

I'm not sure how much SP I use, but it's quite a lot - such that 10 spirit pots aren't anywhere close to enough on DwD PFUDOR. Maybe I'd use 30 spirit pots by the end if I didn't use Spirit Theft and had enough inventory space.

I want to achieve PFUDOR top arenas once at least for fun. What IA level do you have? And how much damage OFC gives for single target compared to Vital Strike? Disentegrate looks too unstable, and I dont want to AP him for more targets...

IA 2. One is for Spark, the other one is either Shadow Veil (bad equipment, and shadow veil has so low duration so I don't want to have to recast it often) or Haste/SS.

Compared them just now, OFC did 64k (non-crit) and Vital Strike did 82k (crit). Add in some uncertainty due to ordinary +- damage variation. (if SS and Heartseeker was on they'd do a lot more. SS + Heartseeker + OFC is enough to kill everything except schoolgirls and possibly Giants, which will have 1/5th~ hp left)

What do you mean, Disintegrate looks unstable? It's almost always better than Ragnarok. I can show you the math if you want, it's really simple, I promise.

70-100 arenas is top for credits? Dont care about exp much...

Schoolgirls give a bit more credits than normal monsters, but they take much longer to kill (less efficient per time), and the schoolgirl arenas have fewer normal monsters (fewer credits per round, and rounds already take longer than normal due to schoolgirls' HP).

I do not notice this mob at all, it does not look special among other.

If you are using heavy armor, it is very important to see which monsters are most dangerous. My list is:
Tsukiko Tsutsukakushi
Ck Eclair
Akroma
Laozei 10th
I Fear Lifanruis
Ikaros Melan
Evangeline A K Mc Dowell
Gaicotu
Mercury Lampe Hime
Vriskaserket
Deadly Angel
Spinoza
Heartiels
Deaive
The Song Of Heaven
Celestia Lindwurm
Chibi Ryu
Vapr
Telios Saintguilde
19qun
I Fear Wind
Telios Saintguilde
Firefly Queen
Suzuki Sora
Latie
Bottle Fairy
Archangels
Pure White Angel

Those are almost all Celestials/Sprites, which I saw did more than ~90/900 spirit damage on SP attack (similar to non-Konata Schoolgirls). It's important to know with heavy armor.

shadow veil can be your ruin with 1H heavy: letting apart the big amount of MP it requires even in spirit stance (109MP is a lot when you have to recast it every 85 turns!) it procs before both block and parry, thus subtracting hits to be countered. maybe it may raise your survivability a bit, but it will surely lower your overall damage, so the balance is negative. use it only as last resort and with a lot of MP to waste.
personally it's a lot that i don't use either spark or shadow veil with power armors

SV only lasts 45 turns for me. Forgot to invest abilities, I'm dumb.

"Balance is negative" - depends on what you value. If you want clearing speed over everything and don't care much if you die, then yes. But if you want to survive to the end (item world, Grindfest and DWD for bragging rights) then SV can be positive.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Feb 15 2015, 01:36

oh well, it's your time and tendons we're speaking about afterall...
when casted on spirit stance OFC can clean (or almost) the whole area, even with 10 mobs
it seems so. SG are to do for trophies only, if your drop trainings aren't so high
as i told you before, let it build the time to SP-attack you
uhu. 2H is a bit dead nowadays. if you really have to change pick DW instead. still crappy, but a little less crappy than 2H
shadow veil can be your ruin with 1H heavy: letting apart the big amount of MP it requires even in spirit stance (109MP is a lot when you have to recast it every 85 turns!) it procs before both block and parry, thus subtracting hits to be countered. maybe it may raise your survivability a bit, but it will surely lower your overall damage, so the balance is negative. use it only as last resort and with a lot of MP to waste.
personally it's a lot that i don't use either spark or shadow veil with power armors

10 mobs is not a problem, SG is. I played heavy 2H until ~300 level, its challenging aka fun compared to 1H.

I believe total shadow veil balance is positive, but in very small uncomfortable way.

OFC is good for schoolgirls, because you can just cast it any new round and deal only with 1-3 monsters. Also d be nice to have 3 or more ia slots. You can easy use even 14/1 mp/sp pots ratio and just regen sp sometimes with spirit theft. F.e. for me it can easy regen almost 20% sp for only 13% mp. It has profit, specially including fact mp overflow can be spend for rebuff/sp theft and sp overflow is mostly useless. Btw, about mana consumption. This long run is mostly good strategy. You should use channeling for recasting expensive spells\gems\overflow. Also check spirit shield threshold. You should absorb only strong damage without low 0-15 sp cost. So sometimes in schoolgirls arenas you can even prefer spark, because you can use 1 cure for restoration when you face low amount of mobs (again ofc helps here), but its not necessary with good mana management.

Main problem with that arenas is exactly ability to keep mp/sp for long duration. Im sure strong 1h can clear it even without any pot (someone 400lvl+).
But i prefer to do it on normal, because it has not so big credits difference, but much faster.

I dont how much OFC is effective against single target, and dont want to throw 1M+ to just check it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
What about IA slots? haste + spirit shield + ? Spark may be gold with high defence...

10 mobs is not a problem, SG is. I played heavy 2H until ~300 level, its challenging aka fun compared to 1H.

I believe total shadow veil balance is positive, but in very small uncomfortable way.

If you are using heavy armor, then 10 mobs definitely is a problem if they are Celestials/Sprites, since each can do close to as much damage as a schoolgirl. That's when OFC is needed most, on DwD when you really need to kill all the Sprites/Celestials very quickly, or you'll lose tons of spirit and have to Cure once every 3 or 4 turns.

I dont how much OFC is effective against single target, and dont want to throw 1M+ to just check it

It kills everything but giants, and the giants that live have only a sliver of HP remaining.

What about IA slots? haste + spirit shield + ? Spark may be gold with high defence...

If you need to use Shadow Veil, it should definitely be in IA (more mana saved via IA, much less time wasted recasting). Spark should probably be in IA as well, since it re-activates automatically, and you don't have to waste a turn recasting Spark right after it triggers (when you're in a bit of trouble).
Oh, and why are you using a Rapier of Nimble and not Slaughter? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) You're losing out on a whole lot of potential damage, and Parry isn't even Smax after forging.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Feb 15 2015, 01:07

Tsu can do as much damage as a schoolgirl (or more - much more than Konata at least).

I'm not sure how much SP I use, but it's quite a lot - such that 10 spirit pots aren't anywhere close to enough on DwD PFUDOR. Maybe I'd use 30 spirit pots by the end if I didn't use Spirit Theft and had enough inventory space.

IA 2. One is for Spark, the other one is either Shadow Veil (bad equipment, and shadow veil has so low duration so I don't want to have to recast it often) or Haste/SS.

Compared them just now, OFC did 64k (non-crit) and Vital Strike did 82k (crit). Add in some uncertainty due to ordinary +- damage variation. (if SS and Heartseeker was on they'd do a lot more. SS + Heartseeker + OFC is enough to kill everything except schoolgirls and possibly Giants, which will have 1/5th~ hp left)

What do you mean, Disintegrate looks unstable? It's almost always better than Ragnarok. I can show you the math if you want, it's really simple, I promise.

Schoolgirls give a bit more credits than normal monsters, but they take much longer to kill (less efficient per time), and the schoolgirl arenas have fewer normal monsters (fewer credits per round, and rounds already take longer than normal due to schoolgirls' HP).

Maybe I do not see Tsu danger due weaken/ragnarok spam, I check it someday..
How much ripened chance gives base disentegrate compared to base ragnarok with tier 2 ripened? OFC looks useless for SG...

If you are using heavy armor, then 10 mobs definitely is a problem if they are Celestials/Sprites, since each can do close to as much damage as a schoolgirl. That's when OFC is needed most, on DwD when you really need to kill all the Sprites/Celestials very quickly, or you'll lose tons of spirit and have to Cure once every 3 or 4 turns.

It kills everything but giants, and the giants that live have only a sliver of HP remaining.

If you need to use Shadow Veil, it should definitely be in IA (more mana saved via IA, much less time wasted recasting). Spark should probably be in IA as well, since it re-activates automatically, and you don't have to waste a turn recasting Spark right after it triggers (when you're in a bit of trouble).

1/2 weaken and I forgot about healing. I dont use shadow veil now, but I may try it for PFUDOR SG arenas...

Oh, and why are you using a Rapier of Nimble and not Slaughter? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) You're losing out on a whole lot of potential damage, and Parry isn't even Smax after forging.

cant find nice/affordable (usually cant win saturday auctions due to real life (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ) + have some hope for next patch...

This post has been edited by Benny-boy: Feb 15 2015, 01:14

What do you mean, Disintegrate looks unstable? It's almost always better than Ragnarok. I can show you the math if you want, it's really simple, I promise.

do it! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

SV only lasts 45 turns for me.

low level ability? low supportive prof? mine are both maxed

"Balance is negative" - depends on what you value. If you want clearing speed over everything and don't care much if you die, then yes. But if you want to survive to the end (item world, Grindfest and DWD for bragging rights) then SV can be positive.

lol, my style is pretty berserk: my character is a stupid warrior who goes on and beats everything to a pulp. every now and then it also cures itself, but i don't really like when arenas/IWs last longer than half a hour. however i have no problems on doing PF TT, PF TTT or IWTBH 70-rounds IW (PF doesn't bring so much advantages compared to IWTBH, but i can still do it). i guess it's enough if you only aim at a bit of fun.
PFfest and PF DwD aren't really my cup of tea, doing BT DwD was already pointless enough

is it 20 or 21 figurines you need for ofc?

is it 20 or 21 figurines you need for ofc?

if you ask me - 19, I get Rarity and Doctor Whooves somewhere between arenas long time ago

is it 20 or 21 figurines you need for ofc?

21

Maybe I do not see Tsu danger due weaken/ragnarok spam, I check it someday..
How much ripened chance gives base disentegrate compared to base ragnarok with tier 2 ripened? OFC looks useless for SG...

Yay, math (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Assuming level 300 - Ripened Soul ability:
Disintegrate chance of proccing on a single monster: 20%
Ragnarok chance of proccing on a single monster: 40%

(Assuming we just care about getting at least one Ripened Soul proc on any monster:)
Disintegrate:
Chances of at least one proc =
= 1 - chance of no procs on any of the monsters
= 1 - (chance of a given individual monster not getting a proc)^(number of monsters)
= 1 - (1 - 20%)^(number of monsters)

Ragnarok:
= 1 - (1 - 40%)^(number of monsters)

Plug in the number of monsters, compare the resulting ratios to the ratio of the mana cost of Disintegrate/Ragnarok, and you have your answer on which is more efficient when you're facing some number of enemies.

Eg. on 3 monsters, Disintegrate has a 48.8% chance (of at least one proc) and Ragnarok has a 78.4% chance. With my mana costs of 113 and 169, that comes out to 2.32 mana per with Disintegrate, and 2.16 mana per with Ragnarok. Ragnarok is cheaper, but only slightly.

On 4 monsters, Dis has 59% chance vs Rag 87% chance. Now Dis is very slightly cheaper, at 1.92 mana per vs 1.94 mana with Rag.

The trend continues: with 1 or 2 monsters, Ragnarok becomes significantly better, and with 5-7 monsters, Disintegrate becomes significantly better. At 7 monsters, Dis has 79% chance vs Rag 97.2% chance: 1.43 mana per with Dis and 1.74 mana per with Rag. Your mana values will be different from mine due to proficiency and level, but not enough to make a difference in the conclusion: 1-3 monsters, Ragnarok better, 4+ monsters, Disintegrate better. Disintegrate can only hit 7 with ability maxed, but at 7 its chances are still high enough that it's more efficient than Ragnarok at 10. (1.43 mana per vs 1.7 mana per)

And regardless of which you use, the more monsters there are, the more likely there is to be at least one Ripened Soul proc (the less mana you have to spend on average).

Unfortunately, this doesn't go well with OFC. If you use OFC, everything but schoolgirls probably dies, so you have to either use the less efficient Ragnarok after OFC, or you use Disintegrate/Drain before, endure a few hits from all the monsters for a few turns, and then use OFC.

low level ability? low supportive prof? mine are both maxed

Whoops. I forgot ability investment. Stupid me.

if you ask me - 19, I get Rarity and Doctor Whooves somewhere between arenas long time ago

It's 21.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Feb 15 2015, 01:52

But shadow veil gives extra defence wich is important too

For 1H, Shadow Veil offers quite a bit less defence than stated (it is around 10% reduction in damage, not 25%).

The offensive cost is actually small too, unless you are really serious about spreading PA and keeping the stacks up on multiple mobs, the vast majority of your damage will be from normal attacks. Since counter attacks stun and evades don't, you aren't reducing the number of counters by much.

Benefits:
~10% reduction in damage taken.
Saves mana if you use cure/spirit regeneration spells often.

Costs:

~25% damage in counter attack damage.
It is going to cost you mana, a lot of mana. At my level 1.3 mana/turn for 10000 turns* is 13000 mana. That is 5 potions.

*ie. Dwd on PFU.

I would recommend using SV if you have spare mana and are trying to push out a little bit more defense. For me, the only battle that actually saves mana with SV is PFUfest round 800+.

OFC looks useless for SG...

It's not to kill the schoolgirls, it's to kill the normal monsters before they get to hit you a bunch of times and possibly use SP attacks. If there are Sprites/Celestials, it helps a lot.

OFC is more useful with schoolgirl arenas because it has a 50 turn cooldown - you can use it every time you start a new round because schoolgirls take many turns to kill - but in normal arenas you'll have to wait a few rounds before using it again.

Is MagNet actually useful?

in the conclusion: 1-3 monsters, Ragnarok better, 4+ monsters, Disintegrate better. Disintegrate can only hit 7 with ability maxed, but at 7 its chances are still high enough that it's more efficient than Ragnarok at 10. (1.43 mana per vs 1.7 mana per)

interesting. but i don't have a free slot to stick 'better disintegrate' ability, so i still have to go with ragnarok only (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) unless i'd drop 'heavy slashing' ability, that is... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Is MagNet actually useful?

Apparently it prevents the target from resisting your spells. So perhaps it is useful as mage on schoolgirls or other bosses when mana conservation is a concern, and when your proficiency isn't quite high enough.

Yay, math (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Assuming level 300 - Ripened Soul ability:
Disintegrate chance of proccing on a single monster: 20%
Ragnarok chance of proccing on a single monster: 40%

(Assuming we just care about getting at least one Ripened Soul proc on any monster:)
Disintegrate:
Chances of at least one proc =
= 1 - chance of no procs on any of the monsters
= 1 - (chance of a given individual monster not getting a proc)^(number of monsters)
= 1 - (1 - 20%)^(number of monsters)

Ragnarok:
= 1 - (1 - 40%)^(number of monsters)

Plug in the number of monsters, compare the resulting ratios to the ratio of the mana cost of Disintegrate/Ragnarok, and you have your answer on which is more efficient when you're facing some number of enemies.

Eg. on 3 monsters, Disintegrate has a 48.8% chance (of at least one proc) and Ragnarok has a 78.4% chance. With my mana costs of 113 and 169, that comes out to 2.32 mana per with Disintegrate, and 2.16 mana per with Ragnarok. Ragnarok is cheaper, but only slightly.

On 4 monsters, Dis has 59% chance vs Rag 87% chance. Now Dis is very slightly cheaper, at 1.92 mana per vs 1.94 mana with Rag.

The trend continues: with 1 or 2 monsters, Ragnarok becomes significantly better, and with 5-7 monsters, Disintegrate becomes significantly better. At 7 monsters, Dis has 79% chance vs Rag 97.2% chance: 1.43 mana per with Dis and 1.74 mana per with Rag. Your mana values will be different from mine due to proficiency and level, but not enough to make a difference in the conclusion: 1-3 monsters, Ragnarok better, 4+ monsters, Disintegrate better. Disintegrate can only hit 7 with ability maxed, but at 7 its chances are still high enough that it's more efficient than Ragnarok at 10. (1.43 mana per vs 1.7 mana per)

It's 21.

Math hentai (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I dont like Disintegrate because its not ~100% chance, especially without AP investment + lesser chance for massive damage reduction/channeling

yeah, I misunderstood question

For 1H, Shadow Veil offers quite a bit less defence than stated (it is around 10% reduction in damage, not 25%).

The offensive cost is actually small too, unless you are really serious about spreading PA and keeping the stacks up on multiple mobs, the vast majority of your damage will be from normal attacks. Since counter attacks stun and evades don't, you aren't reducing the number of counters by much.

Benefits:
~10% reduction in damage taken.
Saves mana if you use cure/spirit regeneration spells often.

Costs:

~25% damage in counter attack damage.
It is going to cost you mana, a lot of mana. At my level 1.3 mana/turn for 10000 turns* is 13000 mana. That is 5 potions.

*ie. Dwd on PFU.

I would recommend using SV if you have spare mana and are trying to push out a little bit more defense. For me, the only battle that actually saves mana with SV is PFUfest round 800+.

yep, spare some extra mana (even use greater mana potion for IWTBH IW), but I dont like to be out of spirit stance...

I dont like Disintegrate because its not ~100% chance, especially without AP investment + lesser chance for massive damage reduction/channeling

How much damage Disintegrate vs Ragnarok does as melee/heavy armor user is probably not an important factor. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Sure, channeling chance is higher, but that's not worth the (usually) wasted extra cost of Ragnarok - if you just want to spend more mana for the sake of getting a channeling chance, you might as well just recast some of your low buffs so you'd get something more useful out of it. Spending 100 for an 80% chance is more of a gamble than spending 150 for a 99% chance, but it's still a better choice.

Of course if you just don't care much about efficiency and still prefer Rag's higher proc chance then you can do that if you wish, but you won't get as far on DWD/GF.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Feb 15 2015, 02:39