[X] My Assistant

The naked guy returns ^^



Following my first try at random encounter I did the first 3 arenas @PFUDOR with this set to feel the water:

main hand: my right hand
offhand: Legendary Mithril Buckler of Protection
head: I'm still bald
body: nothing either
hand: my left hand (makes you wonder how I hold the buckler)
legs: nothing, I'm still Rayman
feet: barefoot

Wrong. Even with 0 evade, it is with Shadow Veil possible to evade in battle. The chance is very low, thats right. But it isnt useless.

Really? I kept looking but I never saw my character Evading at all. Maybe I was just not getting lucky, but I looked it up

CODE

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Character_Stats#Evade

Evade = 1 - (1 - shadow_veil) * (1- (1 - Min((Burden * 4/3%)^1.5 , 1)) * (1 - (1 - equipment_bonus) * (1 - title_bonus) * (1 - AGI * 0.04%)))
= 1 - (1- (1 - Min((Burden * 4/3%)^1.5 , 1)) * some other stuff
= 1 - (1- (1 - (Burden * 4/3%)^1.5)) * ...
= 1 - (1- (1 - (100%)^1.5))  * ... [75+ burden]
= 0

Since it looked like Evade was 0 no matter the Shadow Veil value in the equation, I took it off and haven't tried it since.

Or is the wiki's code wrong as well? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

I would say SS is only useful at very later game. At least you do not need it at your level.

I'm close to his level, but I think SS would help me quite a lot, if I were able to afford it of course. I have 170% base SP, and to keep Spark active I need at least 30% of my total SP. So when I'm at 29% or lower I have to use a spirit pot ASAP or risk dying, even with spirit shield up. But even using only a Greater spirit pot more than maxes out total capacity by the end.

In longer battle series', the only limiting factor is inventory slots, or so it seems right now. So if I could get SS, I'd be able to play a couple more rounds for each potion used before running out of inventory and dying.

Rounds per pot needed seems so important right now I'm thinking about getting Ether Theft or Spirit Theft after getting enough of the relevant proficiency. I know it'll take some battle turns and mp to set up since I'm about as far from a mage as one could get, but I might like it if it lets me replace all mana or spirit pots with the other and lets me go up one more difficulty level. Then again, this might be a terrible idea.

I would say SS is only useful at very later game. At least you do not need it at your level. After a decent set (Ex+) of gears, the best bet should be DD.

Hmm. What else is SS or spirit used for in late game? I think I'm taking too much damage with equipment that is generally Emax evade. So I'm relying heavily on spirit shield and spark of life to stay alive. (Defense is:
43.5% physical mitigation
49.1% magical mitigation
36.9% evade chance
0% block chance
8.6% parry chance
41% resist chance)

You need to know that the different between Ex_max and Leg_max is 1.2/1.05 ~= 1.14. So DD can make an Ex_max set have a Leg range output. If you play a few style, you will find DD is actually cheaper.

Thanks, that's food for thought.

Still, 15% is closer to 14%, and that's 6000 hath. 43m ought to be a few sets of nice equipment?

IW also improves item stats right? Has anyone figured out the formula or approximately how much difference it makes going from 0-10?

Sure for 1000 rounds (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). However, no one ask you to finish it in one go.
What's your average turns per rounds? And average turns per second?

BTW, I can only reach ~500 rounds in Hellfest with my holy set. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Uhh, turns/round depends on whether I'm trying to rush through it or conserve MP. MP is another problem I have (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Back when I Lvl 160 playing Normal without using any pots, I sometimes made it to 300+ rounds (depending on gems dropped. Sometimes 100 rounds only). Since then, I've been playing Arena, RE and IW only. But I'm struggling with Hell at Leg IW in the later levels.

That guy is rich, I can't even pay myself a sword (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Really? I kept looking but I never saw my character Evading at all. Maybe I was just not getting lucky, but I looked it up

Well it could be, that my evade wasnt really 0, more like 0,06 or something, and just because of that and the veil bonus i got some evades. But i know i got some, even with 0 evade at the char screen.

This post has been edited by Stulpen: Jan 2 2015, 15:01

Hmm. What else is SS or spirit used for in late game? I think I'm taking too much damage with equipment that is generally Emax evade. So I'm relying heavily on spirit shield and spark of life to stay alive. (Defense is:
43.5% physical mitigation
49.1% magical mitigation
36.9% evade chance
0% block chance
8.6% parry chance
41% resist chance)
Thanks, that's food for thought.

For 1H, my main use of SP is spirit stance. Spirit shield/SoL is just for safe. They will not be triggered much.

For my mage set, its main use is Spirit shield and SoL. In Hellfest with my holy set, spirit shield will not be triggered before round 300. In PF arena, I need 1-2 SP pot (No SS perk) to clear T&T.

Still, 15% is closer to 14%, and that's 6000 hath. 43m ought to be a few sets of nice equipment?

CODE

Dæmon Duality    Increases attack damage and magic damage by 10%.    2000 Hath

Around 16m for 10% damage. I think it is cheaper than any Leg set. Even with full Leg set, you cannot reach Leg_max output anyway. Even the top players do not have a full set of Leg_max damage set.

The next perk is too expensive IMO.

IW also improves item stats right? Has anyone figured out the formula or approximately how much difference it makes going from 0-10?
Uhh, turns/round depends on whether I'm trying to rush through it or conserve MP. MP is another problem I have (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

IW do not increase base stat now. Only weapon's potency could increase offensive power.
http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Item_World
Do not expect too much from IW. Great improvement for IW is only found in non-ethereal weapon as well as non-focus staff.

This post has been edited by Colman: Jan 2 2015, 16:54

Shadow Veil is useless because of 0 evade

Wrong! Even with 0 evade, you should still evade 25% of incoming attacks with it (well, less if you didn't maxed Better Shadow Veil). Try it, the difference should be fairly apparent.

The formula on the wiki is pretty clear about that matter, too:

Evade = 1 - (1 - shadow_veil) * (1 - (your evade as seen on the character screen))

This post has been edited by Dan31: Jan 2 2015, 15:05

Oops, you're right. Bad math on my part.

I believe it has max multiplier bonus. So you decide. It is basically the best trophy but it doesn't mean you are going to get perfect equip.

i'd sell it, not in the mood for gambling. also, what do you people think about antlers? may those be more worthy than 300k within a few months and with all these players around this year (read: all those other antlers)?

why did i only get 1 hath at dawn?

i thought cookie + mint = 2 hath...

not implemented yet, or...?

it happened to me too, a dawn without hath. then i opened the forum and the following dawn was correct, pretty much like mint had to be activated (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

- snip -

shut up and quickly go make some arenas, you! and don't come out with such suggestions in a thread where admin & henchmen can find free new ideas! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Hell, if you somehow amass the 7.5m for DD, you should retire instead and convert all of that into GP.

yup. but keep a set of everything ready for when you'll finish all GPs (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

You're mistaken, I am looking to spend credits, not the reverse.
I gotta find a way to spend all that useless money I make from uploads, that keeps flooding as we talk.

i don't find donations a humiliating thing. also, i didn't have any award until yesterday so my wallet isn't so high either. i can accept even legacy items, if you really want to - btw, did i already ask you? can't really remember...

No, Scremaz didnt. It was Dan31 that postet the link. Must miss his post yesterday.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
what's that thing, both of you? please, give me the time to break something at least (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Wrong. Even with 0 evade, it is with Shadow Veil possible to evade in battle. The chance is very low, thats right. But it isnt useless.

i find evade pretty useless for heavy 1H. something like throwing away all the credits you spent to forge your shield. someone please proves me wrong, just in case

The naked guy returns ^^

main hand: my right hand
offhand: Legendary Mithril Buckler of Protection
head: I'm still bald
body: nothing either
hand: my left hand (makes you wonder how I hold the buckler)
legs: nothing, I'm still Rayman
feet: barefoot

condolences. i guess mother nature was really sadic with you (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

I know it's stupid. But I'm getting bored, and this is good entertainment since I can't play brain dead (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

how about to sponsor me in my oldies quest? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) every now and the it's quite expensive, you know (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Jan 2 2015, 16:07

Focus
Focus has these effects:
1. Increases the player's chance of landing a spell on the following turn (+50% hit chance?), but reduces their evade, block, and parry chances to 0% for the current turn.
2. 50% counter-resist (50% chance to ignore monster's successful resist).
3. If possible, 25% Overcharge is consumed to recover 5% base mana.

Does anyone use it for 1 & 2?

Level Scaling
I don't understand the wiki page. The first line talks about effective stats of equipment vs a player's level. So I thought that the equipment gets better as player level goes up.

In "How It Works" section, the formula is linked to the player's level, and the example has a level scaling factor of 50 for EDB. But, the table lists the EDB bonus factor as 200. The example also talks about inserting the equipment's level into the formula to get the actual stats.

I also _thought_ that I saw some equipment stats improve marginally after IW and without forging. But maybe I was mistaken.

Focus
Focus has these effects:
1. Increases the player's chance of landing a spell on the following turn (+50% hit chance?), but reduces their evade, block, and parry chances to 0% for the current turn.
2. 50% counter-resist (50% chance to ignore monster's successful resist).
3. If possible, 25% Overcharge is consumed to recover 5% base mana.

Does anyone use it for 1 & 2?

Level Scaling
I don't understand the wiki page. The first line talks about effective stats of equipment vs a player's level. So I thought that the equipment gets better as player level goes up.

In "How It Works" section, the formula is linked to the player's level, and the example has a level scaling factor of 50 for EDB. But, the table lists the EDB bonus factor as 200. The example also talks about inserting the equipment's level into the formula to get the actual stats.

I also _thought_ that I saw some equipment stats improve marginally after IW and without forging. But maybe I was mistaken.

The Counter-Resist from Focus may be useful for landing deprecating spells like Silence (especially when they have a long cooldown). Better stun the monsters first though, or you will endure major pain.

Regarding the EDB scaling, seems like there is an error, indeed. (Edit: Now fixed. I checked, and the EDB level scaling factor seems to be 200.)

I don't think that IW improves weapon stats (but with potencies). However, maybe they scale with the total exp rather than the level itself, which would explain what you saw.

This post has been edited by Dan31: Jan 2 2015, 17:04

Focus
Focus has these effects:
1. Increases the player's chance of landing a spell on the following turn (+50% hit chance?), but reduces their evade, block, and parry chances to 0% for the current turn.
2. 50% counter-resist (50% chance to ignore monster's successful resist).
3. If possible, 25% Overcharge is consumed to recover 5% base mana.

Does anyone use it for 1 & 2?

If there is a fight that you can clear within 10 turns.

• no reason to use focus

If there is a fight that you cannot clear within 10 turns.

• You will be dead if you use focus

BTW, it is rather easy to achieve 200% magic hit chance with shard. No reason to further increase the hit chance.

This post has been edited by Colman: Jan 2 2015, 16:53

double

This post has been edited by Colman: Jan 2 2015, 16:53

The Counter-Resist from Focus may be useful for landing deprecating spells like Silence (especially when they have a long cooldown). Better stun the monsters first though, or you will endure major pain.

That's a good idea.. but mages don't have stun. Except from concussive strike, but mages don't build up overcharge either. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

The only other case I've found was when I've isolated a monster to tap it for HP/MP/SP, and I know it's gonna die in the next round (due to Vital Theft, Ripened Soul or similar). Then I can Focus and use a T3 spell on the next mob in the first round with extra counter-resist. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) but it's not gonna be a very common case, I think.

Regarding the EDB scaling, seems like there is an error, indeed. (Edit: Now fixed. I checked, and the EDB level scaling factor seems to be 200.)

Thanks! Should it also be: Inserting the equipment'splayer's level into the formula gives the actual stats of the item.

I don't think that IW improves weapon stats (but with potencies). However, maybe they scale with the total exp rather than the level itself, which would explain what you saw.

Forgot to write my comment: it could also well be that I didn't pay attention to having leveled up during the same IW run and assumed that the stats improved due to IW'ing. ie, I might have been mistaken.

This post has been edited by mozilla browser: Jan 2 2015, 17:47

That's a good idea.. but mages don't have stun. Except from concussive strike, but mages don't build up overcharge either. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

You may also use FRD (from the Dovahkiin title). Godslayer only gives +3% evade if you're a mage anyway. You need to unlock the title first though (by clearing A Dance with Dragons at Battletoads difficulty).

i find evade pretty useless for heavy 1H. something like throwing away all the credits you spent to forge your shield. someone please proves me wrong, just in case

Oh wait, after Dan showed me I was failing at Evade math, and now that I've had a chance to think about it, it seems like Shadow Veil would actually be exactly as useful for heavy burden characters, at least in terms of proportion of attacks evaded. I hope I don't screw up this time:

CODE

Evade = 1 - (1 - shadow_veil) * (1- (1 - Min((Burden * 4/3%)^1.5 , 1)) * (1 - (1 - equipment_bonus) * (1 - title_bonus) * (1 - AGI * 0.04%)))

Say you're using Light armor / Shadowdancer or Fleet and have a base evade of 50%. Then, say you use Shadow Veil (25%). Your evade would then go up to 62.5%; if 400 attacks were getting through before, you're taking only 300 now - 1/4th less, on average.
Now, if you're using Heavy armor and have a base evade of 0 when you use Shadow Veil (25%), your evade would then go up to 25%; if 800 attacks were getting through before, you're taking only 600 now - 1/4th less, on average. Same effectiveness.

High PL mobs will have chaos upgrades reducing effective evade, but with everything else the same, the proportion of attacks evaded due to Shadow Veil would be the same no matter your armor type.

Still, the mana cost of SV will be significantly higher for those with Heavy armor, so they'd be less inclined to use it even if the proportion of attacks evaded is the same as those with less burden/interference.

If I'm wrong please correct me, otherwise I might be wasting too much on having Shadow Veil active all the time.

Shadow Veil decreases the damage from counters by the same amount though, so if you think you can bear the monster damage, don't use it in 1H style. The damage from counters should be somewhat low at high difficulty, and the extra evade is very welcome against skill attacks, so maybe use it anyway at PFUDOR?

Something I don't like about Shadow Veil is the low duration, although that can be fixed by putting it on IA.

This post has been edited by Dan31: Jan 2 2015, 18:46

- snip -

yes, but 1H heavily relies on counter-stuns, and evade procs before either block and parry, so you're basically wasting 200 hits from the total; even without think about parry, those could be blocked at ~50% ratio, then countered at another 75% ratio which means you're missing something like 225 counters only from block. or better, up to 225 (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Jan 2 2015, 18:50

Greetings

My question is to Dan31

Last time discussion ..... [at that time my level was below 200]

cr < 160 = salvage average

160< cr < 201 = sell average

201 < cr < 241 = salvage average

cr > 240 = sell average

Dan31 i followed this by the book ... tested and APPROVED

legend:
cr = credit

My next question/ discussion

the above was for all items with no or 1 PAB

so what about average items with 2 - 4 PABs average

and superior suffix [ mostly armor and normal superior weapons ].

This post has been edited by derp-z2: Jan 2 2015, 20:29

Greetings

My question is to Dan31

Last time discussion ..... [at that time my level was below 200]

cr < 160 = salvage average

160< cr < 201 = sell average

201 < cr < 241 = salvage average

cr > 240 = sell average

Dan31 i followed this by the book ... tested and APPROVED

legend:
cr = credit

My next question/ discussion

the above was for all items with no or 1 PAB

so what about average items with 2 - 4 PABs average

and superior suffix [ mostly armor and normal superior weapons ].

Here:

The basic thing to do is: salvage if the value of the mats you get by salvaging is higher that what you get from selling it, sell otherwise.

Salvaging an average (or below) gear gives an amount of scrap equal to roundup(bazaar_value/100). For example, if you salvage an equipment with a bazaar value between 101c and 200c, you will get 2 scraps. Scrap cloth and wood are the only ones with a good value on the market (90+ credits each). For Metal and Leather... only salvage if you need them for repairs.

Salvaging a superior (or above) gear gives an amount of scraps equal to roundup(bazaar_price/500), plus a graded mat depending on the quality: low grade for superior, mid grade for exquisite, high grade for magnificent or above. As the amount of scrap you get is reduced, you will usually salvage if the sell value is under the value of the graded mat + 1 scrap.

The type of material you get depends on the gear type:
- One-Handed, Two-Handed, and Heavy Armor gives Metal
- Staff and Shield gives Wood
- Cloth Armor gives Cloth
- Light Armor gives Leather

For the respective values of graded mats, search the WTS section or look up the prices of the bazaar bot. Low grade mats should be worth about 100~200c each, mid grade mats about 600c each, and high grade mats are about 3k for Metal, 2k for Leather, 8k for Cloth and 10k for Wood.

If you are lazy: just salvage average- staff/shield/cloth, plus average- gear that gives you scraps you need for repairs, and sell the rest.