[X] My Assistant

Tell me about it... I was a 2H Estoc player any only managed pfudor IW or arenas but spamming Great Cleave, Rending Blow, Shatterstrike at the start of every round, praying I killed 5+ monsters before the stun ran out. Even then I was using cure all the time. I recently tried out 1H and force shield and hated it... it's way too slow! The best alternative I've found is DW with a mace and rapier. Using that, spirit stance for bonus damage and infusions for extra elemental hits I can really comfortably do pfudor arenas and only struggle a little on pfudor IW. I've not yet decided if I like the club or rapier on the offhand - I think I had better results with the rapier even though I have a club of balance and rapier of slaughter >_> (not ideal but it's almost impossible to find a mag+ rapier of balance and club of slaughter!)

actually i barely managed to find a sup club of slaughter, just saying... -.-"
i can't understand one thing: how is that all of you can cast spirit stance and also the special skills?

Tell me about it... I was a 2H Estoc player any only managed pfudor IW or arenas but spamming Great Cleave, Rending Blow, Shatterstrike at the start of every round, praying I killed 5+ monsters before the stun ran out. Even then I was using cure all the time. I recently tried out 1H and force shield and hated it... it's way too slow! The best alternative I've found is DW with a mace and rapier. Using that, spirit stance for bonus damage and infusions for extra elemental hits I can really comfortably do pfudor arenas and only struggle a little on pfudor IW. I've not yet decided if I like the club or rapier on the offhand - I think I had better results with the rapier even though I have a club of balance and rapier of slaughter >_> (not ideal but it's almost impossible to find a mag+ rapier of balance and club of slaughter!)

Same, used to be 2H estoc and axe/rapier, then mace and club/rapier, now I just stick with rapier/shield.

I gave up on DW since it's even slower than 1H in marathon, since 1H gains overcharge much faster, thus allowing me to use skills more often. And the counter is great for clearing mobs while I'm focusing on the schoolgirls (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Jan 27 2014, 22:11

Oh god I'm giving 2H mace a try and I can't even make it through PFUDOR IW and flee with no mp/sp left, and 210 casts of cure :/ Longsword/estoc is even worse. I pretty much gave early after burning through 4 mp pot in the first 20 rounds just to keep myself alive.

On the other hand, I breezed through it with 1h, 5 mana pots, 3 spirit pot used and 3 casts of cure...

The nerf on 2H is way too harsh. All it'd be ever good for is hell arena (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) (I'm feeling kinda lucky now that I lost the 4m bid on mace 2 weeks ago...)

that's cuz 1h is basically already optimized for defense w/ allows you to focus on offense, whereas (if you're going heavy), 2h needs shards to be more effective. 35~40 rounds arenas takes me about the same time or a little faster with 1h than 2h / niten but that's only if i bulk up PMI and forgo shards for 2h. Past that # of rounds, 2h/niten is faster. Once you switch out plate/ pmi for +damage and shard, the speed changes dramatically.

Both with full ex power slaughter (all 3PAB, sup+ ADB), and exq eth mace of slaughter/rapier of slaughter (both 3PAB, but the mace is ex-2 ADB and the rapier is Sup ADB)

The problem is you tried to play 2h like it's 1h. You had 50%+ block in addition to stun for 1h, then you had only stun fo 2h mace, then no stun w/o tier3 skill for estoc/longsword. You really expected full slaughter for PFUDOR IW would hold up? 2h builds need to start w/ pmi then add +damage.

This post has been edited by etothex: Jan 27 2014, 22:16

... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

The only reason why I didn't say anything in regard to the current states of 1H was to see how long does it take until Tenb realize what he had done to melee as a whole, and later on, how long before he'll do something about it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

My guess would be somewhere around 6 months up to about a year and a half. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Will 1H be nerfed, or other style will get buff...? ... What style will be the next big thing!? — Stay tuned for the next episode!!  (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

i can't understand one thing: how is that all of you can cast spirit stance and also the special skills?

How? We can, that's how. It takes more OC, but it greatly boosts the damage dealt. I mostly use both in REs and against bosses.

Spirit stance alone is more efficient if there are many rounds IMHO.

... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)
Will 1H be nerfed, or other style will get buff...? ... What style will be the next big thing!? — Stay tuned for the next episode!!  (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

One of the reasons I keep buying interesting bits of weaponry and armor from auctions. While it's out of favor it's cheap. Give it a year or two and you never know! My shade set for instance has great PABS since it's so old - newer shade can't match up to that although it has buffs in other areas.

that's cuz 1h is basically already optimized for defense w/ allows you to focus on offense, whereas (if you're going heavy), 2h needs shards to be more effective. 35~40 rounds arenas takes me about the same time or a little faster with 1h than 2h / niten but that's only if i bulk up PMI and forgo shards for 2h. Past that # of rounds, 2h/niten is faster. Once you switch out plate/ pmi for +damage and shard, the speed changes dramatically.
The problem is you tried to play 2h like it's 1h. You had 50%+ block in addition to stun for 1h, then you had only stun fo 2h mace, then no stun w/o tier3 skill for estoc/longsword. You really expected full slaughter for PFUDOR IW would hold up? 2h builds need to start w/ pmi then add +damage.

The thing is, 1H is also very good on offence. If I focus on the mobs with the highest HP, the mobs with lower HP usually die from counters when I'm done (that solves the AOE issues, though you'd need some monster HP scaling script, which any serious HV-er must have). And the whole perma-spirit/overwhelming strike adds another 65% to overall damage. And then permastun/counterparry/accuracy bonus get rid of those annoying evade/parry.

1H clears the last 30 rounds of IW in 30-40 turns, and mace clear them in 40-50 turns (I'm not counting the turns I have to cure - which is 3-6 turns). If 2H with full slaughter is already slower than 1H, then I suspect 2H with plate is only slower.

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Jan 27 2014, 22:35

How? We can, that's how. It takes more OC, but it greatly boosts the damage dealt. I mostly use both in REs and against bosses.

Spirit stance alone is more efficient if there are many rounds IMHO.

i just gave it a try at spirit stance and actually is a bit more efficient than the last time i used it.
two questions about it:
1) gaining proficiencies is somehow affected by ss? if yes, how?
2) wiki says that every turn in spirit stance requires 10% OC, but actually i saw it's variable and less significative than 10%: does overcharge refill itself even when used by spirit stance and thus what i see is only the result of these two contrapposed effects?

The thing is, 1H is also very good on offence. If I focus on the mobs with the highest HP, the mobs with lower HP usually die from counters when I'm done (that solves the AOE issues, though you'd need some monster HP scaling script, which any serious HV-er must have). And the whole perma-spirit/overwhelming strike adds another 65% to overall damage. And then permastun/counterparry/accuracy bonus get rid of those annoying evade/parry.

1H clears the last 30 rounds of IW in 30-40 turns, and mace clear them in 40-50 turns (I'm not counting the turns I have to cure - which is 3-6 turns). If 2H with full slaughter is already slower than 1H, then I suspect 2H with plate is only slower.

If I'm using my shielding set with my rapier - is it pretty much useless to have shadow veil active as you have no evade in heavy? What about haste - do I want to slow down to get more counters? Would a high damage club of slaughter be a better choice for weapon?

If I'm using my shielding set with my rapier - is it pretty much useless to have shadow veil active as you have no evade in heavy? What about haste - do I want to slow down to get more counters? Would a high damage club of slaughter be a better choice for weapon?

Buffs (protection, SV, Haste, etc) formula work in a sense that your incoming damage will always be reduced by the same percentage (in average), regardless of what you already have. Best thing is to go with 1H is always power slaughter (may 1 shielding/shield piece if you're not using rapier). Whether you should cast haste, depends on how willing you are to tank spirit attack. High damage axe would be prefereable to club, it can be even better than rapier if you're gonna spam OFC (I'm only speaking hypothetically, since I have yet to get OFC). Otherwise, rapier is always the more optimal choice, due to PA, and parry.

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Jan 27 2014, 23:06

i just gave it a try at spirit stance and actually is a bit more efficient than the last time i used it.
two questions about it:
1) gaining proficiencies is somehow affected by ss? if yes, how?
2) wiki says that every turn in spirit stance requires 10% OC, but actually i saw it's variable and less significative than 10%: does overcharge refill itself even when used by spirit stance and thus what i see is only the result of these two contrapposed effects?

1) magic prof gain depends on the spell cost. SS reduces spell cost by 25%, so on average, your prof gain would be reduced by 25%, not to mention SS helps you kill faster, you don't have to cast as many buff.
2) you're gaining OC as long as you're hitting stuffs with normal attacks, so yes

1) magic prof gain depends on the spell cost. SS reduces spell cost by 25%, so on average, your prof gain would be reduced by 25%, not to mention SS helps you kill faster, you don't have to cast as many buff.
2) you're gaining OC as long as you're hitting stuffs with normal attacks, so yes

don't have much problems with magic prof, i only use supportive and deprecating: the first is near maxed, and the second is enough to have magnet, so for this i'm done. 2H and TW prof are less affected, or at least that's what seems to me, am i right?

what's better +magic dmg or +prof of that magic on magic item?

Buffs (protection, SV, Haste, etc) formula work in a sense that your incoming damage will always be reduced by the same percentage (in average), regardless of what you already have. Best thing is to go with 1H is always power slaughter (may 1 shielding/shield piece if you're not using rapier). Whether you should cast haste, depends on how willing you are to tank spirit attack. High damage axe would be prefereable to club, it can be even better than rapier if you're gonna spam OFC (I'm only speaking hypothetically, since I have yet to get OFC). Otherwise, rapier is always the more optimal choice, due to PA, and parry.

Sadly, the power set I've got kinda sucks :/ it does seem to match up with the shielding set though but I'm worried about the loss in block lol.

Shielding Set Stats


Power Set Stats

Sadly, the power set I've got kinda sucks :/ it does seem to match up with the shielding set though but I'm worried about the loss in block lol.

Shielding Set Stats


Power Set Stats

I'm glad I'm not the only one main-handing a eth rapier with heavy+shield; though I'm going power/shield/rapier atm - since no good shield plate (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I use my rapier because I think PA on the higher levels makes up for the small increase in weapon damage an axe would make.... Since I don't have a decent ethereal axe I can't test this though XD Sometime I'm going to want two mag/leg ethereal axes to test out in DW too just to see if it's better than club/rapier

I use my rapier because I think PA on the higher levels makes up for the small increase in weapon damage an axe would make.... Since I don't have a decent ethereal axe I can't test this though XD Sometime I'm going to want two mag/leg ethereal axes to test out in DW too just to see if it's better than club/rapier

tested this some time back on Kodou Yuuki. Averaged 16 turns w/ axe, 10 w/ rapier. PA is king for higher dificulty / not top levels.

The thing is, 1H is also very good on offence. If I focus on the mobs with the highest HP, the mobs with lower HP usually die from counters when I'm done (that solves the AOE issues, though you'd need some monster HP scaling script, which any serious HV-er must have). And the whole perma-spirit/overwhelming strike adds another 65% to overall damage. And then permastun/counterparry/accuracy bonus get rid of those annoying evade/parry.

1H clears the last 30 rounds of IW in 30-40 turns, and mace clear them in 40-50 turns (I'm not counting the turns I have to cure - which is 3-6 turns). If 2H with full slaughter is already slower than 1H, then I suspect 2H with plate is only slower.

unless something's changed, perma-spirit should be +100% not +50%. You're used to 1h's built in PFUDOR coping mechanisms so 2h comparatively sucks. PFUDOR IW is also not the best place to figure out the playstyle as the monster scaling will f you over. You need a proper set/stats to really be able to use 2h effectively. Niten might be a better starting point cuz you can get higher acc, parry and crit easier/ earlier (I have 50 parry /50 crit sharded), not to mention more chances for overpower w/ 2 IWed weapons. my damn estoc only got 1 overpower, so i don't really like to PFUDOR w/ it much.

You're overestimating how much removing 1 or 2 slaughters changes things for 2h, unless you're losing like 1000 damage. Increasing your damage output is all good, but unless it realistically decreases the average # of hits needed per kill, you won't notice anything (see below). Hitting 7 guys also allows you some leeway in managing defense / offense (meaning it doesn't add as much time as you think). Also +pmi so you don't have to cure frequently actually saves you time. But again, first and foremost acquire enough PMI/defense for 2h, THEN add offense.

What i mean by above is ex:
you do 5000 damage a hit. mob has 20,000 hp => takes 4 hits to kill.
you do 5500 damage a hit. mob has 20,000 hp => takes 4 hits to kill.
you do 6000 damage a hit. mob has 20,000 hp => takes 4 hits to kill.
(this is of course a really loose example, rng, procs, crits, stance, and misses/ parries and mob hp variance change the scenario a lot, but you should see the underlying point) It does become more useful the more sturdier mobs there are, and more useful the more you use spirit stance, but that shouldn't be the case w/ mace.

So w/ higher damage, you will definitely kill tougher mobs faster, for sure, but unless the average killing speed of killing the massive number of weaker mobs drops a fair bit, you might want to redirect the damage to other attributes first. Example: I prefer a balance gauntlets over slaughter gauntlets (lose 200 damage) cuz the +accuracy / crit consistently give me better times when 2handing in general. +/-10% damage is probably a reasonable indicator of when to consider keeping the damage upgrade or not.

I'm not the one to give advice for mace, but how were you playing w/ the mace, were you using rending blow? stun everything, Great cleave => rending blow => kill the 5 PAed mobs (stance for chaosed mobs as needed), then clean up the other 2-4 mobs, use spirit stance if needed. Keep over 100 OC for 2 skill chain next round.

I don't count turns, just total time spent, and I haven't done PFUDOR IW cuz dont feel it's worth the effort (not like i'd get good drops anyway (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ) but mag 75ish rounds IWBTH takes like 17 min w/ 1h (no OFC yet), 12-14 w/ estoc or niten (can't remember exactly, just that it was under 1 infusion) and just a bit over 10 min w/ niten sharded. I did pfudor Trio in 20 min w/ niten w/o optimal setup other day, ddin't ever time a fully sharded slaughter set. Haven't 1hed it yet.

I gave up on DW since it's even slower than 1H in marathon, since 1H gains overcharge much faster, thus allowing me to use skills more often. And the counter is great for clearing mobs while I'm focusing on the schoolgirls (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I dunno, I found the exact opposite for schoolgirl marathons.

My DW is much faster than my 1H but admittedly, my DW is also much more optimized than my 1H (as I run Shade + Axe/Shield because I don't have a decent Slaughter Rapier or a good Power Armor set... and finding a rapier that would undeniably beat my axe probably costs more money than I have).

Also, do you ever find yourself running out of Overcharge using 1h + spirit stance full time vs schoolgirls, especially on those early rounds where there's less than 4 enemies total? Or do you fall back to Shield Bash > Vital Strike + Spirit Stance spam when doing schoolgirls?

Now admittedly my 1h skill level stinks still (only ~115), but I've been doing 2h Mace for most of my levels and I like it.

However, there's a couple of tricks I use which I also learned to use while skilling up 1h.

1) If there's a bunch of monsters... Sleep is powerful. Even more-so than Silence. If there's 7+ monsters, sleep the first or last three, then pound on the others. Avoiding attacking any monster less than 2 spaces away from a sleeping monster. The effect is almost like you're fighting two separate rounds of 3-4 monsters each.

2) Don't focus on one monster. Swing like a crazy person at first... hit the second monster, then the fourth monster, etc. If you hit one monster and another one gets stunned... hit that guy! Smack the stunned monsters around, because you can't miss and the splash damage will hurt the others (and often stun them).

3) When doing schoolgirls... ignore the other monsters unless they're more than 2 spaces away from the schoolgirl (because then you're unlikely or unable to splash damage them). Just whale away on the schoolgirl and the other monsters will die... and be stunned half the time when they're not dead. Sometimes you might take a swipe at a monster that's close to being able to use their Spirit ability... but most of the time you won't need to.

My Mace isn't a slaughter weapon, yet I have a much easier time with it than I do with a Exq Slaughter Longsword that has 50% more damage!

just out of curiosity why are ya using 2h mace or dw (clubbing/axe) ? -i use Main Rapier sec. shorty for dw-

i was mage till Lv. 270 or so ..patch hitted hard so played up to 330 DW -.- im lazy ..never try things if im not forced ^^

but now @ Kata + waki (of cause crappy equip) kata sup ..waki ex.. but still if ya have the profs for 1h/2h its like 3 times faster than DW ..skyward sword @ every round means 5 dead mobs before the need of cure & you never run out of OC (Shade of fleet) 13 min for T&T arena IWBTH ..tried 1h + leg shield & armor ..dont really know how to play it ..to slow !

btw here the question.. how are ya playing Plate or Power armor ? using every bit of OC for regaining MP ? i dont have any forged things ..but compared to Niten + shade fleet / same weap´s + power armor ..is a badass diference in speed even if ya shard all of em & the diference in PMI !

ahh & maybe someone can explain the effectiv meaning of "attack speed bonus" plz ? DW @ 19% Niten @ 34,6% (no change in burden, inteference, parry & evade) <- Shade Armor !

-.- ok last question! i have two Dark strikes for niten ..is holy better ? (without considering boss class mobs) ?

-----------

thx for any info in advice ! & sry for my bad eng !! lol ^^

This post has been edited by mutsdhr: Jan 28 2014, 04:18