[X] My Assistant

I'd go with the second pair. The gain in evade is greater than the loss in mitigation. I don't feel like posting a detailed mathematical analysis explaining why Boggy's wrong about that, but he is.

Are you saying that is even the case if one has 60 evade? (I haven't run the math).
I'm also assuming that cmal has SV on IA which makes evade even less useful.

Adding a piece with 5% Evade will reduce the average number of hits you take by 5%.
Adding a piece with 5% Mitigation will reduce the damage per hit by 5% (disregarding absorption).

This holds regardless of the initial values of those stats. So if you're comparing two sets of pants, you don't need to know what the character's overall stats are, and you can count Evade and Mitigation as being of equal value. (In fact, since it's possible to evade magical attacks too, Evade may be worth more overall. But I don't know whether or not equipment Evade adds to your basic "magic evade" stat.)

But I don't know whether or not equipment Evade adds to your basic "magic evade" stat.)

wat

Adding a piece with 5% Evade will reduce the average number of hits you take by 5%.
Adding a piece with 5% Mitigation will reduce the damage per hit by 5% (disregarding absorption).

This holds regardless of the initial values of those stats. So if you're comparing two sets of pants, you don't need to know what the character's overall stats are

That would would be only if those stats were additive, but that's not what happens.

Well time to some calcs (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

4 pieces of silk give me 6.7% physical mitigation and 30.1% evasion (I removed the evasion I have without any equipment, since we know the other bonuses are added after the equipment stats calculated)

(with cloth prof calculated)
silk 1 scales to me 3.18% physical mitigation, and 8.09% evade, but what I will get once equipped is: ~2.966% physical mitigation, ~5.655% evasion.
silk 2 scales to me 2.43% physical mitigation, and 9.44% evade, but what I will get once equipped is: ~2.267% physical mitigation, ~6.598% evasion.

mitigation+evasion-> 8.651 8.865.
Looks like wins the 2nd pair (for now), but like I posted before:

the best way to see is by equipping it, and compare the stats.

But I don't know whether or not equipment Evade adds to your basic "magic evade" stat.

Yes.

That would would be only if those stats were additive, but that's not what happens.

It's precisely because those stats are not additive that what I said is true. You're the one who's falling into the trap of treating them as additive when you add up the increases in mit/evade you get when equipping the items.

It looks like I'm going to have to go into the details after all.

4 pieces of silk give me 6.7% physical mitigation and 30.1% evasion (I removed the evasion I have without any equipment, since we know the other bonuses are added after the equipment stats calculated)

OK, let's assume that without those 4 pieces you would take an average of 100 damage per hit. With them, the number of hits that actually land is reduced by 30.1% and the damage done when they land is reduced by 6.7%. The average damage per hit is reduced to

100 * (1 - 0.301) * (1 - 0.067) = 65.2

Now you add your 5th piece. I'll just look at #1.

silk 1 scales to me 3.18% physical mitigation, and 8.09% evade, but what I will get once equipped is: ~2.966% physical mitigation, ~5.655% evasion.

So now you have 9.7% mitigation, 35.8% evade. Average damage per hit is now

100 * (1 - 0.358) * (1 - 0.097) = 58.0

The reduction in damage is 7.2 points. As a percentage: (7.2 / 65.2) * 100 = 11.04%.

Note that this is approximately equal to the sum of the mitigation and evade that the 5th piece would give you on its own (11.27%). And not equal to this:

mitigation+evasion-> 8.651

- which is meaningless.

- which is meaningless.

I made the same mistake again, you're absolutely right.
I remake your post because I noticed something, and I'm too lazy to write much:

4 pieces of silk give me 5% physical mitigation and 50% evasion (I removed the evasion I have without any equipment, since we know the other bonuses are added after the equipment stats calculated)

OK, let's assume that without those 4 pieces you would take an average of 100 damage per hit. With them, the number of hits that actually land is reduced by 50% and the damage done when they land is reduced by 5%. The average damage per hit is reduced to

100 * (1 - 0.5) * (1 - 0.05) = 47.5

Now you add your 5th piece. I'll just look at #1.

silk 1 scales to me 3.18% physical mitigation, and 8.09% evade, but what I will get once equipped is: ~2.966% physical mitigation, ~5.655% evasion.

So now you have 8% mitigation, 55.7% evade. Average damage per hit is now

100 * (1 - 0.557) * (1 - 0.08) = 40.756

The reduction in damage is 7.6 points. As a percentage: (6.744 / 47.5) * 100 = 14.19%.

Note that this is not approximately equal to the sum of the mitigation and evade that the 5th piece would give you on its own (11.87%).

So the other pieces of equipment does effect the result.

Equip, and compare the stats, or using Sonic's calc if it's some item you don't have, is better.

This post has been edited by cmdct: Sep 16 2010, 01:56

So the other pieces of equipment does effect the result.

No, because if you change the starting numbers for evade and mitigation, this

what I will get once equipped is: ~2.966% physical mitigation, ~5.655% evasion

is no longer true. If you start with 50% evade, adding a piece that has 8% evade increases the total to 54%. In other words, it gives +4%. The rest of the calculation is wrong as a result.

is no longer true. If you start with 50% evade, adding a piece that has 8% evade increases the total to 54%. In other words, it gives +4%. The rest of the calculation is wrong as a result.

Miss that, duh. The result is 10.9%, which is still a bigger error, but then again this errors can be ignored I supposed.

i have a few questions about staves

what makes a good all purpose staff

how does ether theft proc work and what stats are related to it so i know what to improve on

also, will i be able to use an offhand weapon with a staff or is it treated like a 2h weapon?

i have a few questions about staves

what makes a good all purpose staff

how does ether theft proc work and what stats are related to it so i know what to improve on

also, will i be able to use an offhand weapon with a staff or is it treated like a 2h weapon?

The magic damage multipler is probably the most important overall stat for staffs, but it all depends on what you're using it for. At lower levels, accuracy bonus is more important than at higher levels, as your base accuracy sucks. Depending on how much you rely on ether theft also determines how important ET is for you. Etc., etc.

As far as ther theft goes, it's a 3 step process. First you proc coalesce mana with a spell. Any spell will work for this purpose. AOE's can proc CM on more than one monster. The chance to proc coalesce mana is based on your staff proficiency and caps at 35%. Ether theft is proc'd by meleeing a monster affected by CM with your staff. This chance is whatever your staff's ET chance is. Channeling can then be proc'd by casting a spell on a monster with ET. I'm actually not sure exactly what the chance for this is. It seems to be around 25% and is set.

You cannont equip an offhand weapon with a staff.

after seeing the "What are your proficiencies?, Magic and Weapon/Armor" thread, i feel that my proficiencies are rather low for my level.

any tips on how to increase your proficiencies fast and easy? i am aleady doing magic montage daily but it doesn't make much of a difference.

my current proficiencies...

Staff 39.72
Cloth armor 58.81
Elemental 78.33
Divine 22.70
Forbidden 0.00
Deprecating 28.70
Supportive 27.32
Curative 60.97

There really is no easy way to level up magic proficiencies. Some tips include:

At the end of all the early arenas (basically whenever you aren't at risk of dying) burn all your remaining mana on deprecating/support spells.

If you can get at least 1 level of Innate Arcana and have a support spell active, you have a chance of gaining supportive proficiency at the start of each round (I think it's each round).

Remember, magic missle has a chance of raising staff proficiency, and it's free to cast.

If you're willing to burn a little money and time, use all your weaker mana draughts/potions, start a cakefest or whatever, and just start mana burning. When you're out of mana/restoratives, repeat. The lessers and average ones don't sell for much anyway.

Just whated to ask,i buyed a complete boss fight set,but it seems with mobs its not good lol wy not =

Most anti-boss sets are based on mitigation against the specific damge type the bosses deal, or to raise your own magical damage against this specific enemy. So you see, it's a one-sided form of equipment, solely for the purpose to fight that specific enemy(enemies, depends on the euqips).

I got a question myself: Why isn't banish stronger than purge?

This post has been edited by HybridGuardian: Sep 16 2010, 14:30

If you can get at least 1 level of Innate Arcana and have a support spell active, you have a chance of gaining supportive proficiency at the start of each round (I think it's each round).

If by round, you meant turn, then, yes.

Just whated to ask,i buyed a complete boss fight set,but it seems with mobs its not good lol wy not =

People whose sigs are too long won't get their questions answered.

I got a question myself: Why isn't banish stronger than purge?

I haven't compared them mathematically, but I can anecdotally say it is.

I haven't compared them mathematically, but I can anecdotally say it is.

I thought so... just wondering, as I used them both against yuki and both did around the same damage. The difference between them was so small, that it was worthless to cast banish...

If by round, you meant turn, then, yes.

Oh. Even better. I don't really pay attention much anymore heh.

I thought so... just wondering, as I used them both against yuki and both did around the same damage. The difference between them was so small, that it was worthless to cast banish...

Well offensive spells have a fairly large "range" of damage that they can hit for. My guess is you just had a couple of extra strong purges vs. a couple of extra weak banishes is all.

Are Learning Chip+ Cybernetic Brain or Attuned through Grace worth my time? (Don't let the fact that I'll be competing in the hath market sway your answer because I'll be doing it regardless. If I decide no on those, I'll buy Karma perks.)

Are Learning Chip+ Cybernetic Brain or Attuned through Grace worth my time? (Don't let the fact that I'll be competing in the hath market sway your answer because I'll be doing it regardless. If I decide no on those, I'll buy Karma perks.)

So basically, are they worth more than Karma Perks? I'd have to go out on a limb and say "yes". Perhaps you care more about Karma than I do though.