[X] My Assistant

It's not going to happen. If it did, it likely wouldn't be fair. Up until The Trio and the Tree, cmal and I were functionally equal in power. (As evidenced by the fact we were both beating arenas without items). If melee is made more powerful, things will swing towards melee. I don't even think that beating bosses/legendaries will be made easier. If that is to be attempted, it will likely be done by allowing people to switch equipment sets mid-combat which would allow someone to switch to a set that is more effective in combating bosses/legendaries. (Likely switching from Niten to DW).

I agree. What I'm betting on for The Next Big Thing are Skills. Something that'll give both classes some new toys to play with and give us more variety in builds, but at the same time, giving us non-AoE players something with the kick to hit high-value targets harder. We won't be able to clear a round in two turns, but we'll at least be able to shave a few turns off killing a Legendary. And TBH, I'm not really sure switching would matter that much. DW vs Niten wouldn't make much difference fighting small groups of shit mobs -- its the rounds with the Legendaries where things start to get annoying.

What I'm betting on for The Next Big Thing are Skills. Something that'll give both classes some new toys to play with and give us more variety in builds, but at the same time, giving us non-AoE players something with the kick to hit high-value targets harder.

I have my doubts about skills. Melee AoE's just aren't going to happen, and, if they do, they will be of a drain-your-spirit-bar-while-requiring-10%-base-spirit-to-use type.

As for something to take down bosses+, I think a skill that prevented an enemy from regaining MP+SP would bring some balance to the classes.

Or really, Magic Missile should be changed. It should either cost MP again, or not proc coalesced mana or ether theft.

I was thinking about credit making, so I´d like to ask you guys: "Is it wiser not to raise adept learner and stay on my level? Or does the item quality also rise by level?"
I am making about 1000 creds atm in an average IW round. (Sales)

This post has been edited by HybridGuardian: Jun 9 2010, 10:20

I was thinking about credit making, so I´d like to ask you guys: "Is it wiser not to raise adept learner and stay on my level? Or does the item quality also rise by level?"
I am making about 1000 creds atm in an average IW round. (Sales)

Item quality (value more exactly) is rise with level.

I have my doubts about skills. Melee AoE's just aren't going to happen, and, if they do, they will be of a drain-your-spirit-bar-while-requiring-10%-base-spirit-to-use type.

Currently we can't recover SP, but if we get a ability for that, skills wouldn't be a problem.

As for something to take down bosses+, I think a skill that prevented an enemy from regaining MP+SP would bring some balance to the classes.

Or really, Magic Missile should be changed. It should either cost MP again, or not proc coalesced mana or ether theft.

It's just an idea, but maybe changing the spell absorb becoming cheaper or recovering more mana, or even having a small chance to get channeling when triggered.

This post has been edited by cmdct: Jun 9 2010, 13:34

Item World question: Does rarity of Item affect drop quality? I've heard of Phase dropping inside of Phase IW before. I just finished an Average Phase Item World and all of this dropped from it...

4 4 Cookie Monster dropped [Average Cotton Robe of Protection]
0 1 Initializing Item World (Round 6 / 130) ... Avg/Norm

2 9 Cookie Monster dropped [Average Dragon Hide Leggings of Warding]
0 1 Initializing Item World (Round 43 / 130) ... Avg/Norm

8 4 Mutant Peacock dropped [Mana Elixir]
0 1 Initializing Item World (Round 71 / 130) ... Avg/Norm

6 5 Rabid Hamster dropped [Spirit Elixir]
0 1 Initializing Item World (Round 87 / 130) ... Avg/Norm

2 5 Mantitcore dropped [Mana Elixir]
0 1 Initializing Item World (Round 100 / 130) ... Avg/Norm

8 4 Mutant Peacock dropped [Average Sapphire Tower Shield of the Stone-skinned]
0 1 Initializing Item World (Round 102 / 130) ... Avg/Norm

3 8 Tentacle Monster dropped [Average Cotton Gloves of Protection]
0 1 Initializing Item World (Round 107 / 130) ... Avg/Norm

5 6 Scary Ghost dropped [Fine Sapphire Kite Shield of Warding]
0 1 Initializing Item World (Round 124 / 130) ... Avg/Norm

4 5 Tentacle Monster dropped [Scroll of the Avatar]
0 1 Initializing Item World (Round 125 / 130) ... Avg/Norm

3 6 Giant Panda dropped [Fine Willow Staff of Focus]
0 1 Initializing Item World (Round 127 / 130) ... Avg/Norm

While 6 equipment is a bit extreme, 1 equip per 30-40 rounds is not usual for this particular IW but, less common when I do Silk or weapons.

Item World question: Does rarity of Item affect drop quality? I've heard of Phase dropping inside of Phase IW before. I just finished an Average Phase Item World and all of this dropped from it...

While 6 equipment is a bit extreme, 1 equip per 30-40 rounds is not usual for this particular IW but, less common when I do Silk or weapons.

Just luck that happens sometimes. I've been leveling up Eths/phase sometimes, and I didn't got better drop quality or Eths/phase, but once I got around 20 pieces of equipment in a +100 level item. Other times I don't get any equipment.

Currently we can't recover SP, but if we get a ability for that, skills wouldn't be a problem.

Unless said ability allows you to swap MP for Spirit, it won't happen or it would be absurdly overpowered.

Unless said ability allows you to swap MP for Spirit, it won't happen or it would be absurdly overpowered.

Really? So if that ability it was a supportive spell like AF, and give a small chance of recovering a little bit of SP each time you hit with a physical attack (like Ripened Soul), it would be almost worthless to mages because they hit much less, but good for melee characters since it's what they mostly do.

Really? So if that ability it was a supportive spell like AF, and give a small chance of recovering a little bit of SP each time you hit with a physical attack (like Ripened Soul), it would be almost worthless to mages because they hit much less, but good for melee characters since it's what they mostly do.

Maybe, but, as I said, melee is just as powerful as maging until about level 200. (Maging is infinitely faster, but that will never change). If you add something like this, you drastically increase the power of melee characters against legendaries and the Gods. (Melee was pretty much the only way to beat the Gods before this anyway). And giving melee characters AOEs, even occasional ones, gives them the advantage of mages without taking away the advantage of beeing a melee character...

Maybe, but, as I said, melee is just as powerful as maging until about level 200. (Maging is infinitely faster, but that will never change).

I checked yesterday when I entered Sealed power with my 1HS by mistake, and I cleared without items, and that surprised me since I don't have any OC boost. I think it was because of the elemental mitigations I have now, Regen II alone isn't enough.

If you add something like this, you drastically increase the power of melee characters against legendaries and the Gods. (Melee was pretty much the only way to beat the Gods before this anyway).

I even wasn't thinking in what kind of skills could possibly exist yet, I was only providing an idea for them to exist.
Yes it would give more power for melee characters against legendaries and the Gods, but don't forget in terms of mana pot mages still have the upper hand.

And giving melee characters AOEs, even occasional ones, gives them the advantage of mages without taking away the advantage of beeing a melee character...

I think skills shouldn't be damage type, so no AoE skills, besides what difference it would be between a spell.
Lets try some examples overpowered or not. it's just to give an idea:
-Give +25% damage power for x turns
-Give +50% physical mitigation for x turns
-Give +50% parry for x turns
-In the next x turns each time the weapon proc, 50% chance of proc'ing all monsters. (this it would balance more stun and PA)
-In the next x turns y% base MP is recovered for each time you get hit.

That's what I think skills should do.

Yes it would give more power for melee characters against legendaries and the Gods, but don't forget in terms of mana pot mages still have the upper hand.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Melee characters can max out MP tanks.

I think skills shouldn't be damage type, so no AoE skills, besides what difference it would be between a spell.

They would be based on attack rating and attack damage +% rather than magic rating and magic damage +% and likely not be subjected to interference. Those 3 would be huge.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Melee characters can max out MP tanks.

No, I mean mages can have infinite MP against legendaries/Gods in some circumstances, and take infinite time to kill them too.

They would be based on attack rating and attack damage +% rather than magic rating and magic damage +% and likely not be subjected to interference. Those 3 would be huge.

You didn't read all the examples I gave (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
What you say is true, but that depends in the implementation itself. Just look to AF/HS, they give a boost in % damage, % crit, and % acc, but they aren't overpowered.

No, I mean mages can have infinite MP against legendaries/Gods in some circumstances, and take infinite time to kill them too.

That could easily be solved by changing magic missile. It should either cost MP again, or not proc coalesced mana or ether theft. (The latter accomplished by making it a melee attack whose damage is based on magic rating and magic damage)

You didn't read all the examples I gave (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I read them. I didn't respond to them. I'm not sure I'd have anything to say without knowing how long they last and at what cost. A short (approximately 5-10 turns) burst would not necessarily be overpowered. If they last as long as any other supportive spell while giving such massive effects, I would probably have a problem with them.

That could easily be solved by changing magic missile. It should either cost MP again, or not proc coalesced mana or ether theft. (The latter accomplished by making it a melee attack whose damage is based on magic rating and magic damage)

I disagree, because the main reason for free cost was to them being more and less beatable by maging. 2nd I'm not even sure if that would make a difference, it only make the battle much longer.

I read them. I didn't respond to them. I'm not sure I'd have anything to say without knowing how long they last and at what cost. A short (approximately 5-10 turns) burst would not necessarily be overpowered. If they last as long as any other supportive spell while giving such massive effects, I would probably have a problem with them.

I might exaggerated with the effects, but they are viable.

But coming back to the beginning, this is all because +End of Days arenas, where the melee loses to maging, basically because of the recasting of supportive spells like HS. so if a boss/legendary have a 100% drop of mystic gem (like the trophy) this wouldn't resolve the problem a little?

This post has been edited by cmdct: Jun 10 2010, 01:05

But coming back to the beginning, this is all because +End of Days arenas, where the melee loses to maging, basically because of the recasting of supportive spells like HS. so if a boss/legendary have a 100% drop of mystic gem (like the trophy) this wouldn't resolve the problem a little?

Sure, you would be able to keep up Heartseeker, but on top of that (actually Arcane Meditation, but I assume they are the same), I also use Regen II, Shadow Veil, and Spark of Life. Yes, I don't technically need to cast Shadow Veil because IA makes it free, but it is unlikely that you could keep up Regen II and Spark of Life for 75 rounds of legendaries. Well, maybe with a lot of elixirs, but, still, that would be brutal.

Sure, you would be able to keep up Heartseeker, but on top of that (actually Arcane Meditation, but I assume they are the same), I also use Regen II, Shadow Veil, and Spark of Life. Yes, I don't technically need to cast Shadow Veil because IA makes it free, but it is unlikely that you could keep up Regen II and Spark of Life for 75 rounds of legendaries. Well, maybe with a lot of elixirs, but, still, that would be brutal.

Well I can't actually discuss much about this, cmal is in a better position, but like you said SV is removed from the equation, and spark can be resolved as well if you bring enough dark mitigation from gear, plus having cold rating mastered, right?
Now leaves only Regen II, but even if you don't count the mana/mystic gems dropped in occasion (worst case possible), by melee you actually spend much less turns per round, so Regen II would be casted less often. (Again you also have MP recovered by 2nd winds)

Well I can't actually discuss much about this, cmal is in a better position, but like you said SV is removed from the equation, and spark can be resolved as well if you bring enough dark mitigation from gear, plus having cold rating mastered, right?
Now leaves only Regen II, but even if you don't count the mana/mystic gems dropped in occasion (worst case possible), by melee you actually spend much less turns per round, so Regen II would be casted less often. (Again you also have MP recovered by 2nd winds)

But you also have weaken, bewilder, nerf, poison to cast, and since the battle would take longer as a melee character, the cost of those increases.

As for mitigation gear, I'm not sure how much you need to be able to survive the uber high damage rolls from Yuki's spirit attack. I've died while using this cap. (Used because of the decent evasion for a piece of mitigation gear. With proficiency, that gives me 21 mitigation. So, I have something like 34% and still I die)

But you also have weaken, bewilder, nerf, poison to cast, and since the battle would take longer as a melee character, the cost of those increases.

You right forgot of those, but I don't think the battle would be longer, yes killing the other monsters would take more turns, but don't you waste more turns killing legendaries with maging? (because of the mana recovered by ET issue)

As for mitigation gear, I'm not sure how much you need to be able to survive the uber high damage rolls from Yuki's spirit attack. I've died while using this cap. (Used because of the decent evasion for a piece of mitigation gear. With proficiency, that gives me 21 mitigation. So, I have something like 34% and still I die)

34% and still you died, that's very bad (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

What's the difference between "Elemental Damage Bonuses", "Damage Type Mitigations" and "Proficiency Bonuses"? Thanks in advance.

Fine Phase Robe of Fenrir
Fine Cotton Robe of the Spirit-ward
Average Cotton Robe of the Thrice-blessed
Average Gossamer Robe of the Heaven-sent