[X] My Assistant

i keep a text file with all of my forged gear's unforged base stats, so i just had to check that to confirm: forging a balance weapon with 13.26 crit to 25 gives 16.55, +25%, so it takes the suffix into account

note however that forging to 50 only adds about 36%, not the 50% you may expect

Well, both of those are good to know, thank you sickentide. It's good to know the base stat is affected by suffixes.

My confusion on the other part of the forge I guess stems from me doing either math, ln functions, or order of operations wrong...here's my math, someone tell me where I fell off the wagon.

"Each upgrade level adds roughly the following factor to the base stat." (I think my confusion stems from the bolded word...)
For non-ADB/MDB factors: 1 + 0.2 * ln(0.1 * forge_count + 1)

Forge 5
1+ 0.2 * ln(0.1*5+1)
1+ 0.2 * ln(.5+1)
1+ 0.2 * ln(1.5)
1+ 0.2 * .405
1+ .081
1.081

Forge 50
1+ 0.2 * ln(0.1*50+1)
1+ 0.2 * ln(6)
1+ 0.2 * 1.792
1+.358
1.358

I was under the impression that the calculator was for each level of upgrading, but is it for the total of all the levels you have put in? So the first 5 levels of upgrades provide you with an 8% increase instead of the expected 5%? Does the tooltip in the forge ever stop saying it is a 1% base stat upgrade? I hate misleading info. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

If that is true, can we re-word or remove this phrase from the wiki? Maybe say something like for the given level of upgrade, the total percentage can be found using the following formula?

"Each upgrade level adds roughly the following factor to the base stat."

This post has been edited by PapaJuk: Nov 22 2017, 03:06

Old question,

at which level a mob can reliably keep killing players?
I want to compare the gift between that one strong mob versus the gift from multiple mobs of equal cost.

The higher the mob PL, the harder for them to reliably kill players. Since players who can play at higher difficulty is more experienced at preventing death as they have more access to survivability tools.

Old question,

at which level a mob can reliably keep killing players?
I want to compare the gift between that one strong mob versus the gift from multiple mobs of equal cost.

There is no such thing. Monsters never reliably kill players. They only ever manage kills due to inexperience or inattention of the player, nothing to do with the actual stats of the monster itself.

This post has been edited by Cryosite: Nov 22 2017, 09:25

at which level a mob can reliably keep killing players?
I want to compare the gift between that one strong mob versus the gift from multiple mobs of equal cost.

I'd say between 1200PL and 1300PL.

Old question,

at which level a mob can reliably keep killing players?
I want to compare the gift between that one strong mob versus the gift from multiple mobs of equal cost.

All PLs are actually good to kill players. It's just that if you're a cheapskate and upgrade all its stats to max out its PL with the minimum of credits, it ends with the average garbage stats of most mobs and won't kill for shit.

But if you do like me...


(the first one is a monster that is more than 1 year old, the others are 2-3 months old at most)
That celestial isn't even the mid-PL monster with the highest win/kill ratio I have. I got one with 69/21 and a younger one with 21/7.

Mobs do start killing a bit more once they're above PL400, as they get their spirit attack and the population decreases with higher power levels. You do can notice that chaosing tends to help a lot, though it's not mandatory.

tl;dr
You want your monsters to kill? Then give them the weapons to kill!

This post has been edited by decondelite: Nov 22 2017, 11:45

Does the tooltip in the forge ever stop saying it is a 1% base stat upgrade?

it's reported to be wrong, and it's one of those things admin is slowly but steadily patching. follow wiki on this. what you'll earn is a multiplier that will tell you the final roll. if you want to know the boost from lv x to lv (x + n), simply do the math for both cases. or use my spreadsheets (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

I'd say between 1200PL and 1300PL.

I will say same thing too, but, of course, it relies on chaos upgrades.
I think monster with 600PL and maxed out chaos upgrades (all of them) has better and higher chance to kill players (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I will say same thing too, but, of course, it relies on chaos upgrades.
I think monster with 600PL and maxed out chaos upgrades (all of them) has better and higher chance to kill players (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Depends on what he means.
For battle won PL > everything.
For killing blows choosing the right type and having maxed out chaos upgrades probably helps a lot.

at which level a mob can reliably keep killing players?

I guarantee by own experienc that around ~500 /╲/\╭[☉﹏☉]╮/\╱\ to 600
it is what you fight when they start having spirit attack and yuo has not even full superior sets (っ´ω`)ﾉ(╥ω╥)
afterwards you start getting less and less at risk of kill

Depends on what he means.
For battle won PL > everything.
For killing blows choosing the right type and having maxed out chaos upgrades probably helps a lot.

I thought about the latter (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
If for the former - then, yes, chaos upgrades are not that important given the various random factors.

Oh, I have a daimon at over PL 500. Enjoyed more chaos upgrade than yours. 92 wins and 26 kills. But it hasn't kill shit in this two months. I wonder if there's the magic number to pass before it start to turn into a killing machine.

Have several mobs yeah. At most 3 kills/5 win in 2 month. Their low achievements get me thinking of raising them. Hence the question.

If this true, ssss2 effort to raise new peerless army will sound counterintuitive. I would like to challenge this view, but I don't have any high level mob to begin with. Thanks for the input btw, I'll consider feeding chow muncher some chaos once I have some to spare.

I'd say between 1200PL and 1300PL.

Is this true? Would all crystal you feed them worth it?
Should I aim for it? Gosh, constant flow of HGC would be swell.
At least would be better than a bunch of low grade stuffs I always got.

If this true, ssss2 effort to raise new peerless army will sound counterintuitive. I would like to challenge this view, but I don't have any high level mob to begin with. Thanks for the input btw, I'll consider feeding chow muncher some chaos once I have some to spare.

Well, there is a distinct difference between:
Some choice or choices you can make involving your monsters that will result in them never earning a kill.
Some choice or choices you can make that will result in your monsters occasionally getting a kill.
Some choice or choices you can make that will result in your monsters getting frequent kills.
Some choice or choices you can make that will result in your monsters getting consistent kills.

Some gray area and difference in opinion on what words mean and how they apply. You asked for "consistent" kills though, which seems to me to be results like, "I get a kill every day" or so.

Most of the feedback you got from others seems to be sporadic kills every few weeks/months at best. There is clearly some room to increase from "never or once in a blue moon" to "sporadic" but none of those answers appear to be "consistent" like you asked.

I look forward to being proven wrong. But it seems unlikely that there is some secret combination of stats you can build your monsters to that will regularly defeat a player who is paying attention and using a tried and true combat style.

Is this true? Would all crystal you feed them worth it?

Nope, the ceiling is too high and most of the bindings are worth nothing.
It also constantly gets worse since more high-level monsters are created every day.

If this true, ssss2 effort to raise new peerless army will sound counterintuitive

not if snek2 wants to have as much monster as higher as objectives
~<:<<<<<> *ssss* *ssss*

then is going straight to his goald and it is being very good at it
~<:<<<<<> *ssss* *ssss*

he just wants to torment the people with silly named monster, 100% efficients rate

How do I choose my monsters?
Shall I just upgrade its statues evenly?
Or to magic attack monsters I should upgrade int and wis only?
And as I got some chaos key left, shall I max the number of monsters first or just try to feed some huge monsters with high level?

This post has been edited by amumusdream: Nov 22 2017, 17:09

How do I choose my monsters?
Shall I just upgrade its statues evenly?
Or to magic attack monsters I should upgrade int and wis only?
And as I got some chaos key left, shall I max the number of monsters first or just try to feed some huge monsters with high level?

Depends on what you want to achieve.
If you want to highest PL possible for the minimum amount of money, keep everything even and elemental upgrades=2*primary upgrades.
If you want something that kicks butts, you focus on the offensive stats without neglecting defensive stats too much. If you have a Daimon, you raise mostly attack, dexterity and agility, but keep a minimum of endurance so that it can at least take 2-3 hits before collapsing. If it's a Celestial, you focus mostly on agility, intelligence and wisdom, and still keep a minimum of endurance. If it's a Giant, it's attack and endurance, but raise its agility a minimum so it does attack a bit. And so on and so forth.

As for the spending your chaos tokens, it's really up to you: do you want to drop the most items possible, or to have a monster to be really proud of? In the first case it's monster slots again and again and again to have a low PL army, if it's the second you chaos it like hell. But keep in mind that an army of monsters needs to be fed. It's not overly expensive though...

How do I choose my monsters?
Shall I just upgrade its statues evenly?
Or to magic attack monsters I should upgrade int and wis only?
And as I got some chaos key left, shall I max the number of monsters first or just try to feed some huge monsters with high level?

No really. The effect is not noticable. Just do whatever. I suggest a funny monster-type-and-name combination.

Like: Giant Dissapointment (Giant)
or: Can of Beans (mecha)
or: Flipping the Bird (avion)

You'll get your gifts from 1 every 3 days, standard and fleeing players. Almost nobody dies.

I started collecting pieces for a mage build.

1. Is there a speed/efficiency/whateverelse comparison somewhere for imperil dark vs. non-imperil dark. I understand that there's a difference in forbidden proficiency required, but none of the advice pages really seem to hash out the differences.

2. Is there a comparison between charged vs radiant vs mystic pieces?

This post has been edited by rinshantsumo: Nov 23 2017, 03:21

I started collecting pieces for a mage build.

1. Is there a speed/efficiency/whateverelse comparison somewhere for imperil dark vs. non-imperil dark. I understand that there's a difference in forbidden proficiency required, but none of the advice pages really seem to hash out the differences.

2. Is there a comparison between charged vs radiant vs mystic pieces?

Charged is chosen for defensive reasons. Going faster means you suffer fewer enemy attacks for the same amount of casting. How fast you need to be is largely depending on how bad of a beating you're otherwise taking, and how many sources of "make me less squishy" you have accumulated from various sources: agi (for evade) on your cloth, Hath perks, and so on. Oh, and lots of scrolls for various buffs is a gimme.

Radiant raises MDB, i.e. damage. Lets you kill things with fewer spells cast. Kinda depends on what you're fighting though. If you're in pfudorfest, you're mostly fighting a bunch of normal monsters and you might one-shot them with your t3->t2-t1 rotation so quickly that you don't really need more damage. If you're fighting a lot of SGs, the little bump in damage from radiant prefixes might shave off several T per run.

Mystic is like magical Savage. It raises magical crit damage. It doesn't appear to be favored by anyone, for the same reason everyone favors Slaughter over Balance. I think Mystic would be superior to no prefix at all, and would help vs SG's similarly to Radiant.

As for the main question, I'll mostly defer to those with actual experience playing mage. It seems like an attractive choice to forgo Imperil to reduce the amount of time spent inputting actions. Spell rotation hoverplay on Monsterbation lets mages cast with about as much "lazy/low attetention/low interaction" as melee hoverplay. Imperil requires you mash a hotkey some, pay attention to whether it landed or not and where, and make snap decisions about if you need to mash it some more before nuking.

Obviously Imperil-less style still needs to do a lot of damage, but also needs higher prof. You may need more radiant prefixes to make up for using two slots for prof, for example. You may need Daemon Duality Hath perk while Imperil style might get away without it. Since you're using Radiant prefixes instead of charged, you might need more defensive stuff, like more Juggernaut on your gear and/or agility/evade. Imperil style might get away with low% evade/agi cloth and favor cheaper pieces of gear as a result.

It's a lot of factors to juggle. Overall, Imperil-less probably is more expensive to gear/perk for. A lot of people are very practiced in the action you have to do during combat to use Imperil, so they're very fast at it. It probably doesn't produce a very big difference in speed of clearing dungeons, though Imperil-less has some potential to be faster due to less user-input bottleneck. On the other hand, potentially cheaper gearing might allow for better quality gear for Imperil-style, and give a raw damage output advantage.