[X] My Assistant

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533T，2horse,(mistake<10)
I think hopeless to go back 4XX club before I improve my DD and prof after level 500. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

I think you posted your first blood screenshot by mistake
533 turns is amazing by the way

I think you posted your first blood screenshot by mistake
533 turns is amazing by the way

DwD 13 turns finish easy.
I mean, Ming's getting closer to that anyway (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Collecting Ubershank's earlier result for easy text reference.

Shortsword (forged):

4,797 turns 0:37:31 (2.131 t/s)
5,965 turns 0:38:51 (2.559 t/s)

Rapier (weak, unforged):

5,426 turns 0:45:02 (2.008 t/s)
7,043 turns 0:45:38 (2.572 t/s)

Vital Strike made you 24% faster with shortsword and 30% faster with rapier. Vital Strike only made me 12% faster with my rapier.

My new guess for the reason behind this difference is that it's due to how strong the player is overall. If you have lots of forging and daemon duality (I have DD5 to finish in about 4000 turns, with or without infusion) then eventually as a 1H melee player you peak out in DwD.

Once Vital Strike reaches the point of overkilling the enemy and beyond, you won't improve as much with it, but will continue to improve a lot without it. Eventually, other players have claimed that it is faster to beatdown the enemies (with infusion) than Vital Strike them. Indeed that had almost been the case for me earlier, if time was compared and not turns.

Just for reference, thus far I have always played SG arenas by Vital Striking almost every School Girl, even if I have to reactivate Spirit Stance a lot. As you get stronger, and with infusion, it would probably be better to Vital Strike only a few of the School Girls such that you never lose Spirit Stance. You can do this at any level if you like and it's probably not much different.

With hp hath perk, infusions, suffused aether, and one featherweight charm to get my burden closer to 70. Definitely noticed a big difference in my spirit and mana sustain! Didn't need spirit potions or Shadow Veil.

This post has been edited by arctos33: Nov 28 2019, 19:20

lv327, DW, Shortsword+Rapier forged5, Shades, IA2, no debuffs, no infusions, exactly 5000 turns

never got better turns since my first clean on lv300, it even slowed down to 6000t , until I change a new rapier last week which improve about 10% of my ADB and got 100% offhand hit chance

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more gear upgraded (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

cold mage, dd4

Now I remembered why I didn't play DwD anymore after 0.83 (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)



I wasted a little bit of time in the first minute or so to change song on my mp3 player.
Also I misplayed OFC using it on turn 149 so it costed me 100ish turns on the dragons.
4 imperils wasted there too...only one landed, lol.
35 Spirit...yeah, the "new" pip overcharge system sucks, every time I ofc with <245 OFC and I wipe the round, I end with <35 OC and any following attack will get me below 25 before accounting for gain and counters and Spirit will turn off (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

With a little bit of focusing I could go around 4800 turns and 26 minutes.

Utterly sad considering I have fully forged high adb slaughter armors and DDIII (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

With HV 0.82 this run would've ended with < 15 minutes and less than 3000 turns. Without a dubt.

Still, I won't ever go mage. 1h for life. Until they buff melee and nerf mage.
Then I won't change anyway (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

- snip -

Still, I won't ever go mage. 1h for life. Until they buff melee and nerf mage.
Then I won't change anyway (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Hell yeah !

Mage is for spoiled whimps. Melee is for tough guys. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)

Hell yeah !

Mage is for spoiled whimps. Melee is for tough guys. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)

Spoiled whimp for life!

1,491 turns 0:09:02 (2.751 t/s) 3 riddles

yeah

Thanks to you I just figured out what the horses are...

Thanks to you I just figured out what the horses are...

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Actually, at first I thought it meant the 'stop beating the dead horse' message. I had to ask sicken what it was.

Trick is, in Monsterbation script: search for the word 'horse' and when you find this message replace 'horse' with 'riddle'

My new guess for the reason behind this difference is that it's due to how strong the player is overall. If you have lots of forging and daemon duality (I have DD5 to finish in about 4000 turns, with or without infusion) then eventually as a 1H melee player you peak out in DwD.

So after overcoming the 30000 hath wall of DD5, and assuming with good gear, it still takes more turns when not vital striking? You do realise you were giving this advise to someone who had cleared DwD for the first time and very unlikely has DD5?

Eventually, other players have claimed that it is faster to beatdown the enemies (with infusion) than Vital Strike them.

I'd really appreciate it if you quoted the posts people were saying that, to see if I can get an idea of what levels of DD and high forged good equipment they were using to get better turns than using vital strike.

I know overkilling is always a loss of efficiency, but if you're capable of taking out every SG with one vital strike every time, I don't see how not using vital strike would improve it, yeah you may drop out of spirit stance often, but as long as you manage it well, you don't lose many turns getting back up to full spirit stance. For example, if you get low, manually dropping out of spirit stance at the start of a new round, so a fresh rounds worth of monsters attack you to increase it quicker than getting forcefully dropped out of it at a bad point, i.e only 1 SG left in the round.

Unfortunately I don't have a single level of DD, and am unable to 1 shot kill schoolgirls other than Konata, so I can't test this.

Anyway, my stats today, getting closer to my 30m goal. Finally started forging my armour, and also did a bit more forging on my sword. I got a better t/s than normal through trying different keybinds, and trying to make it so I have to move the mouse as little as possible. No battle infusions, but darkness, voidseeker (I'm still just short of 200% without), and aether shards enchanted on the sword. Nothing enchanted on the armour, though as I've lost a lot of elemental mitigation recently due to changing to savage, considering using them. Some mistakes made, but nothing that should throw out my turns by a large amount.




My equipment:
Legendary Ethereal Shortsword of Slaughter
Legendary Savage Power Helmet of Protection
Legendary Savage Power Armor of Protection
Legendary Savage Power Gauntlets of Protection
Legendary Savage Power Leggings of Warding
Legendary Ruby Power Boots of Warding

Mitigations on these aren't that great, but I'll upgrade them eventually. I plan on replacing my chest piece with a savage warding piece, and my boots with a savage warding piece.

Don't hope too much.

Level scaling will hit hard.
SO hard (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

LV334,DW(Club,IW0+Voidseeker Shard,Rapier,IW10+forge7),Shades,5846turns

Try test a club, use a voidseeker shard to get void damage and over 200% acc, compare to the shortsword(IW10,forged5) I use now:
ADB: 5902/5986 (-84/-1.4%)
PCrit: 52.5%chc+58%dmg/53.4%chc,+64%dmg (-0.9%chc,-6%dmg)
Evd: 42%/44.2% (-2.2%)
Parry: 53.2%/63.2% (-10%)

As the result, it didn't behave much on defensive drop, the cure used was not so different about use a shortsword, the miss(parried) chance was more than half drop, but the turns increase 400s to yesterday, about 7% slow, quite more then the ADB drop.

Fell confuse about the result, don't know whether a club with same class forged will improve the turns, and can't understand why not much behave on 10% defensive drop




This post has been edited by what_is_name: Dec 11 2019, 12:37

I couldn't find the older posts from high level players saying it's better for them to beat down School Girls than to Vital Strike them, sorry. I could only find this conversation but it is not the ones I had been thinking of. Either way, I assume Vital Strike has to be an improvement over straight beat down, at least if done sparingly such that you never run out of spirit stance, and if you have bindings for it.

For people on whom Vital Strike has a bigger improvement, it should be done as much as possible even if spirit stance runs out. Unless maybe OFC is better; I don't know how it compares. There's also the very expensive hath perk to make OFC stronger.

For people on whom Vital Strike has a bigger improvement, it should be done as much as possible even if spirit stance runs out.

The way I've been doing it is to vital strike once, then usually I'm able to finish off hitting them during the cooldown. It's easier with 2 & 3 schoolgirl rounds as you can split the vital strikes more. I only vital strike twice if I make a really poor hit that doesn't do a lot of damage, otherwise the oc use isn't worth it as you often massively overkill them, which is a waste of OC.

For example, I vital strike the first, if it's less than roughly 25% health remaining after a vital strike, attack it normally until 3-5 pixels left on the hp bar, then let bleeding wounds finish it off and move to the next, vital striking whichever one I'm currently attacking. Usually, with the exception of bad hits, it's possible to get them to a point where bleeding wound will finish them off during the cooldown so only one vital strike is needed. On a bad hit (i.e. more than 70% health remaining), I move to attacking a different one immediately, as I don't want to bring the health down low enough that I overkill on the 2nd vital strike. If the health after the first vs is between those two, I just make a judgement depending on how close to either side it is, often carrying on hitting it during cooldowns (even if it means dropping off a different SG and coming back to it after vital striking another) + bleeding wounds + counters generally finish it off, just slightly less efficiently, and can occasionally mean more turns needed on other SG's, which in turn sometimes means I need to re imperil due to it running out.

Unless maybe OFC is better; I don't know how it compares. There's also the very expensive hath perk to make OFC stronger.

I haven't done tonnes of testing between the two styles, but for me vital strike is much quicker for me. The reasons mostly being it's easier to handle OC, as when OFC'ing, it's common to drop out of spirit stance on the next hit, and as it usually wipes all player created monsters, you're left in a bad spot for recovering OC. With vital strike, when OC is getting low, you can wait until a fresh round, drop out manually, then bring it to max while you have a full roster of monsters attacking you.
Another thing that might make the difference is that while OFC does 5x damage (if wiki is accurate) on multiple targets, it only matters on at max 3 of them, and when you consider that OFC costs 200 OC and has a cooldown of 50, vital strike has a OC cost of 50 and a cooldown of 10, so taking both cost and cooldowns into consideration, you can vital strike 4 times for one ofc, and do so with 10 turns left to spare. Considering you can also manage your OC easier with vital strike, it's (in my opinion), vastly superior to OFC. The expensive OFC hath perk might change things, but I'm not willing to fork out 25000 hath to test it, I think DD would be a better investment lol

It depends how quick you are with using Vital Strike,

^Pretty much sums up my argument for using vital strike. If I were to compare it, hacking away at a SG until it's dead is easier to learn, and easier to master, but costs more turns, vital strike is harder to master, but with practice should improve real time purely by the fact that it has better turns, so long as you practice until your t/s while using vital strike is close to when you're not. If I get in the flow, I can vital strike accurately in less than a second, you don't need to move your mouse far, and it's quick to spot. Unfortunately I've not quite mastered being in that flow throughout an entire DwD haha.

spotting stun is optional, most of the time I just guess and it works okay. I don't have OFC yet.

Stuns happen so frequently that this is actually viable, though slightly less efficient. Considering you still do 2.5 times damage when they are not stunned, it's not terrible even if you guess wrong. I don't do this, but I have considered it, as a lot of my loss in speed is when I guess that it's been stunned, and when it doesn't I stop my hand after preparing vital strike, losing a bit of time. Often to disable the vital strike I'll then just re cast imperil as my fingers are always on the keys for that, but on 3 sg rounds often at least one of the sg's have a stun at any given time so it's just a case of changing target.

The conditions to use Vital Strike make it non-viable to be actually effective.
The time you lose to spot the stun condition, hover away, use it, then resume could very well be used to keep hovering instead, for the same amount of damage overall.

I don't agree. Considering I can one shot konata in the half a second it takes me to vital strike, I can't do the same just beating her down. It you can get to a point where you can do enough damage with normal attacks to kill konata fairly frequently in just 3 normal hits (after imperil and spirit stance), I'd agree, but I'm not sure if that's even possible for 1h.

This post has been edited by Ubershank: Dec 13 2019, 02:28

DW, club + rapier
DD5

:/

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Holy-Bonus Day
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non-vnc, non-impulse
nice turns , bad clear time (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)